BA Cityflyer

[DutchBird-757]

What's up with 'All power to your elbow'?

Back to the topic. I know things are going really bad but that's exactly when you should invest and look past this unsettling time. BA's not losing £2.6 million a day it's the revenue that's down £2.6 million a day.

I think Swiss is going to the Embraer but don't know when or what type of combination. Couldn't find a link at the moment so it's just a rumor.

[Mister Geezer]

Swiss were indeed in line to receive some EJets, however I was told that these aircraft are off to KLM instead to replace some if not all of their F70/F100 fleet.

OK. I grant you. We continue to hose down our other wholly owned subsidiary (Open Skies) but how long can that survive??

As far as positioning BACF for the future is concerned, is there any other airline investing in E170/190 for LCY ops at the moment?

Tandemrotor... Your point is entirely sensible but at LCY the willy waving contest between BACF and CityJet can only intensify prior to this new LCY-JFK route kicking off. I can not see BA retreating from LCY in any shape or form before they have started this new route. I get the impression that the modus operandi of BA at LCY is firstly to gain as much market share as possible and secondly to generate profit! I would not be surprised if an announcement for new aircraft was made in the near future. BA seem content to throw money at BACF and the fact that BACF is wet leasing in extra aircraft during these unstable times speaks volumes. I feel it underlines that the business plan for BACF is not in line with the common industry theme of reduction in fleet size and route network.

[Tandemrotor]

DB

"All power to your elbow" is just another way of saying: Good luck to you!

MG

The A318 LCY-JFK service is a very good case in point. It is already being delayed, for reasons various. It is clearly targeted at London/NY bankers - An endangered species! I for one, wouldn't be too surprised to see this put on the back burner for a while!

Finally. "wet leasing in extra aircraft during these unstable times" seems eminently sensible to me. Since it gives BA ultimate flexibility. In other words, they can expand or contract rapidly, without having to consider a/c or crewing issues.

I'm not at all sure people realise precisely how grim the near future could easily become! (Fortunately for me, BA do!) We won't see the worst of this situation for a little while yet IMHO!

Edited to add:

it's the revenue that's down £2.6 million a day.

I stand corrected. So revenue is only down about £1billion per year! Oh that's ok then! Let's spend some cash on a peripheral part of the operation eh!!!

[flyer55]

You say that the LCY - NYC route has been delayed but it hasnt as the route wasnt due to be launched unitl late 2009 and be operated by LGW crew !

Re Cityflyer it is good news for them to be expanding as long as it doesnt affect work for LGW crew !

[Carnage Matey!]

I think you'll find the LCY-JFK is a lot more tenuous than you think right now.

[marlowe]

Flyer55 so you are not pleased that a part of BA is possibly expanding then in these hard times?

[marlowe]

TR true but BA have pumped a lot of cash LCY way over the last 18 months must be a reason for this. Fair to say that BACF is exposed to the bank business at LCY, but no more so than CityJet/Airfrance Lufty & VLM who are in the same market, maybe BA are playing the long game at LCY and see its use in a different way in the future?

[Tandemrotor]

Sorry Marlowe, I had deleted my previous post regarding the exposure of BACF's customer base to the financial services industry.

Because of the location of LCY, I'm not sure there is a "different way"?

[marlowe]

Well TR guess you will have to go ask them what they have in mind !

[Mister Geezer]

Tandemrotor

Finally. "wet leasing in extra aircraft during these unstable times" seems eminently sensible to me. Since it gives BA ultimate flexibility. In other words, they can expand or contract rapidly, without having to consider a/c or crewing issues.

I agree with the flexibility that wet leasing provides. However I was really trying to highlight that whilst many airlines have halted expansion or tried to downsize, the fact that BA are more than willing to 'spend some cash on a peripheral part of the operation' speaks volumes. I perhaps have more access to information than most and I am a bit reluctant to say much more for obvious reasons, however what I will say is that BACF are operating on some routes that have intense competition and the load factors can at times be dreadful. Amazingly though this is often in line with forecast expectations, just so BACF can capture a share of the market. When taking that into account, in addition to the continued expansion, then one wonders why BA have pumped so much money into BACF to date, never mind the expansion on the horizon, which is even more poignant as BA starts to feel the pinch. When it comes to BA financing BACF, the words 'bottomless pit' springs to mind!

[MarkD]

I suppose BA could redirect the A318s to somewhere where money isn't likely to go out of style any time soon... like DXB?

[DutchBird-757]

I wish BA did some sustained, and high profile, advertising for her flights to and especially from LCY. For instance in the Highlife magazine or on airport billboards. Not only in London, or UK even, but even more so on the mainland. I've heard passenger comments that they didn't even knew they could fly to LCY from x with BA. Don't ask how they ended on board afterall...

I think we seem to be charging quite reasonable fares when comparing BA to the likes of VLM/KLM. (don't know about cityjet though)

@ Tandemrotor, sorry if I questioned you're comment with the 'elbow' thing. I was just unfamiliair with that expression and was wrong there.

[13Alpha]

I wish BA did some sustained, and high profile, advertising for her flights to and especially from LCY. For instance in the Highlife magazine or on airport billboards.

It's a good point. A recent Highlife had an article plugging Glasgow as a travel destination and said at the end "British Airways flies daily to Glasgow from both Gatwick and Heathrow". No mention of LCY.

And when there's a problem with a flight from LCY, the BA customer service machine seems utterly oblivious, as I mentioned over on this thread: http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...cityflyer.html



13Alpha

[davidjohnson6]

LCY adverts

DutchBird - there have been a lot of ads from BA near Canary Wharf in London about their routes from LCY.

[DutchBird-757]

Indeed, I've seen those. There were actually some really clever ads by BA. In my opinion the best way to make money is to invest some. (like prolonged advertising)

A couple of editions of the Highlife magazine with a page about their LCY operation or something like that would be a great extra.

[BAladdy]

BACF Fleet renewal/expansion question

Hi all

Just going back to the whole fleet renewal/expansion post earlier in this thread.

When the old Cityflyer Express was merged into the former EOG operation at LGW they had a fleet of 16 RJ100 aircraft. The aircraft where later redeployed to BHX and MAN to become part of the British Airways Citiexpress fleet.

Between mid December 05 and May 06, when the RJ100's where with BA Citiexpress the six newest RJ's where removed from the fleet and went on to LX.

There regs where G-CFAB/C/D/E/F and H.

Does anyone know did the aircraft belong to BA??
If yes were they sold to LX or are they just leased to LX??
If BA did lease them does anyone know when is the lease up??
Could the aircraft end up coming back to BACF to form the fleet expansion??

Sorry about all the questions and thanks in advance for any info......

[BISH-BASH-BOSH]

The word on the street at LCY yesterday, was that the Embraer 190, will arrive at LCY on the 1st November, to commence trials for 10 days.

[BALLSOUT]

All of the ex cityflyer RJ's were on lease from British Aerospace. The newest six were taken over by Swis. The word at the time was so B A could reduce the time left to the end of the leasing deal and they could get rid.
I think the first of the leases were due to end in 2007.

[CabinCrewe]

There has been extensive GLA - LCY publicity. The current "City. Slicker", "now up to 5 flights a day" publicity campaign in press and journals an example

[DutchBird-757]

I know the E190 has still gotta do it's certification but is there any 'other' reason behind it's visit to LCY? Heared some rumors about LH and the E190? Just doesn't sound right to me. They surely must have meant the C-jet. Any thoughts?