MANCHESTER - 5
At the risk of being flamed, comments such as this
just don't stack up to reality, sure MAN is a two runway operation, but it clearly isn't considered "that" important, purely because the premium yields out of MAN are pathetic..and always have been 
MAN is the biggest and most important airport outside London, so it should be better than other regionals.
You can't judge the importance of an airport purely on its premium yields.
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You know it really irrritates me that people assume there is no premium traffic ex Manchester and that everyone with money (so called) wants to fly from London.
I am fortunate that my job allows me to fly on business and I frequently have problem getting seats in Business on flights ex manchester and I usually find business quite full.
lets not forget that Cheshire is one of the most afluent parts of the country,
There is premium traffic from the regions and if the services are made available at the right times then they will be used.
I am fortunate that my job allows me to fly on business and I frequently have problem getting seats in Business on flights ex manchester and I usually find business quite full.
lets not forget that Cheshire is one of the most afluent parts of the country,
There is premium traffic from the regions and if the services are made available at the right times then they will be used.
Autoglide,
BHX 1 - 1.5 hours drive from London!!?? A one a hour drive would require a licence-losing 100mph+ performance - 1.5 hours perhaps possible, at 02:00 on a Sunday morning - with all roadworks lifted!!!
Realisticly, add one hour to both times.
BHX isn't comparable to MAN, partly because of the London proximity issue, and partly because whilst the Birmingham City Concil was twiddling their thumbs and navel gazing in the 1960s, Manchester had the foresight to build an International airport and runway to match. Since then MAN has always had the edge over BHX.
Things might had been different if thw two sets of councillors had been in opposite council chambers.
BHX 1 - 1.5 hours drive from London!!?? A one a hour drive would require a licence-losing 100mph+ performance - 1.5 hours perhaps possible, at 02:00 on a Sunday morning - with all roadworks lifted!!!
Realisticly, add one hour to both times.
BHX isn't comparable to MAN, partly because of the London proximity issue, and partly because whilst the Birmingham City Concil was twiddling their thumbs and navel gazing in the 1960s, Manchester had the foresight to build an International airport and runway to match. Since then MAN has always had the edge over BHX.
Things might had been different if thw two sets of councillors had been in opposite council chambers.
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I agree with pwalhx,
I frequently fly (twice a month) business class on EY MAN AUH MAN and its always full, i do think on the other hand that the likes of Air Asia X and Oasis Hong Kong will do much better out of MAN than MH and CX ever did as passengers from the North are more money conscious than the South.
As somebody else said in this thread. You can find it cheaper to fly via LHR on carriers such as SQ then direct from MAN and pax in the North will do that if it saves them money.
If Oasis and Air Asia came to MAN it would be cheaper still and therefore cut out the necessity to transit through LHR. Why would any one want to fly via LHR. The flight takes 30mins, when you get there you are in the hold for another 30mins, you get off the plane and have to change terminals......thats another 30mins. Once you are boarded and you push back its at least 40 mins before getting airbourne, then you have a twelve hour flight ahead of you. All that to save a bit of cash.
Come on Oasis and Air Asia......bring it on.
I frequently fly (twice a month) business class on EY MAN AUH MAN and its always full, i do think on the other hand that the likes of Air Asia X and Oasis Hong Kong will do much better out of MAN than MH and CX ever did as passengers from the North are more money conscious than the South.
As somebody else said in this thread. You can find it cheaper to fly via LHR on carriers such as SQ then direct from MAN and pax in the North will do that if it saves them money.
If Oasis and Air Asia came to MAN it would be cheaper still and therefore cut out the necessity to transit through LHR. Why would any one want to fly via LHR. The flight takes 30mins, when you get there you are in the hold for another 30mins, you get off the plane and have to change terminals......thats another 30mins. Once you are boarded and you push back its at least 40 mins before getting airbourne, then you have a twelve hour flight ahead of you. All that to save a bit of cash.
Come on Oasis and Air Asia......bring it on.
You know it really irritates me that people assume there is no premium traffic ex Manchester and that everyone with money (so called) wants to fly from London.
You can't judge the importance of an airport purely on its premium yields.
I am fortunate that my job allows me to fly on business and I frequently have problem getting seats in Business on flights ex Manchester and I usually find business quite full.
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Lack of frequency? What are you suggesting....6 times a day to long-haul points? I would have thought that minimum 4 weekly up to 2 daily would be the required amounts for each destination. Obvsiuouly, New York is different as we have 3 757s and a 1 767 each day.
Lack of passengers? Better tell Emirates that then as they must be completly potty to have decided to go from 2 weekly A310 via FRA to 2 daily non-stop 77W as there are apparently this perceived "lack of passengers" wanting to fly.
What might be the problem for most airlines is that there is a tremendous number of passengers wishing to fly out of the regions on long-haul routes but to service them means that inappropriate aircraft and/or configurations would have to be used. If there were multiple destinations (5 to 10?) where a general profile mix of 15% to 20% business class with the rest economy then airlines might find it more economic to develop a mini-fleet configured that way. Where some people go wrong is to always compare MAN with LGW/LHR. THere is no way that MAN would ever be able to attract the yields they do....I would like to think that MAN could raise yield levels to those comparable with MUC.
I find it mildly interesting that BA complained about the proposed introduction of extra services to New York in the late 1980s as the market "wouldn't sustain 2 carriers" which I would have thought everyone taking to mean that BA would withdraw their service, yet they still plod on after seeing off AA and DL in the 1990s.
Lack of passengers? Better tell Emirates that then as they must be completly potty to have decided to go from 2 weekly A310 via FRA to 2 daily non-stop 77W as there are apparently this perceived "lack of passengers" wanting to fly.
What might be the problem for most airlines is that there is a tremendous number of passengers wishing to fly out of the regions on long-haul routes but to service them means that inappropriate aircraft and/or configurations would have to be used. If there were multiple destinations (5 to 10?) where a general profile mix of 15% to 20% business class with the rest economy then airlines might find it more economic to develop a mini-fleet configured that way. Where some people go wrong is to always compare MAN with LGW/LHR. THere is no way that MAN would ever be able to attract the yields they do....I would like to think that MAN could raise yield levels to those comparable with MUC.
I find it mildly interesting that BA complained about the proposed introduction of extra services to New York in the late 1980s as the market "wouldn't sustain 2 carriers" which I would have thought everyone taking to mean that BA would withdraw their service, yet they still plod on after seeing off AA and DL in the 1990s.
Well the Prestbury triangle boasts more Millionaires per sq mile than anywhere else in the UK.
Med-Longhaul fares on direct flights ex MAN are nearly always more expensive than flights ex LHR, sometimes substantially more. MAN-MAD was ALWAYS cheaper with BA via LGW than on their direct flights.
The Far East carriers have dedicated freighters into MAN. Substantial freight with pax could be carried on the right aircraft, thereby making pax flights more viable.
The last time I flew from HKG into LHR on a CX B744 there were less than 100 pax on board, so dont give me that guff about demand. Look at the poor load on the BA 777 accident aircraft. Many of the LHR routes are in fact over saturated but the slots held, have to be used & they are stupidly worth a fortune. MAN slots are worthless, its the LHR slot values that distort the market.
Med-Longhaul fares on direct flights ex MAN are nearly always more expensive than flights ex LHR, sometimes substantially more. MAN-MAD was ALWAYS cheaper with BA via LGW than on their direct flights.
The Far East carriers have dedicated freighters into MAN. Substantial freight with pax could be carried on the right aircraft, thereby making pax flights more viable.
The last time I flew from HKG into LHR on a CX B744 there were less than 100 pax on board, so dont give me that guff about demand. Look at the poor load on the BA 777 accident aircraft. Many of the LHR routes are in fact over saturated but the slots held, have to be used & they are stupidly worth a fortune. MAN slots are worthless, its the LHR slot values that distort the market.
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Monarch Man, if MAN isn't 'the biggest and most important airport outside London', would you care to advise us all which airport is then, in 'reality' ?.
This should be good...
This should be good...
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Monarch Man,
I think you will find that AMS,FRA and CDG are in Holland, Germany and France, Unless something happened lastnight when i was sleeping. I think MAN flyer is talking about MAN being the most important airport outside London in the UK.
I am pretty sure we all agree on that
I think you will find that AMS,FRA and CDG are in Holland, Germany and France, Unless something happened lastnight when i was sleeping. I think MAN flyer is talking about MAN being the most important airport outside London in the UK.
I am pretty sure we all agree on that
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Autoglide,
BHX 1 - 1.5 hours drive from London!!?? A one a hour drive would require a licence-losing 100mph+ performance - 1.5 hours perhaps possible, at 02:00 on a Sunday morning - with all roadworks lifted!!!
Realisticly, add one hour to both times.
Sorry, didn't realise I would have to explain it in such detail. BHX is South of the city, it shares a lot of it's potential catchment area to the South with LHR. BHX to LHR is approx 110 miles at the most. The M40 is just about the fastest flowing motorway in the UK and aside from Oxford has a remarkable lack of congestion causing on/off ramp density. At any reasonable average motorway speed you can easily make it in 1.5 hours driving at the motorway average speed, unless you are stupid enough to try it at rush hour, are driving at old biddy speeds or are travelling there using the A40 on a moped. I drive past BHX on the way to LHR and back at least once a week, never taken anywhere near 2.5 hours, and you'd be very inept, daft enough not to bother seeing a way of avoiding the M25, or just plain unlucky for it to do so. I can make MAN to LHR in an average of 3 hours, never mind a quick tootle down the M40 from BHX.
BHX 1 - 1.5 hours drive from London!!?? A one a hour drive would require a licence-losing 100mph+ performance - 1.5 hours perhaps possible, at 02:00 on a Sunday morning - with all roadworks lifted!!!
Realisticly, add one hour to both times.
Sorry, didn't realise I would have to explain it in such detail. BHX is South of the city, it shares a lot of it's potential catchment area to the South with LHR. BHX to LHR is approx 110 miles at the most. The M40 is just about the fastest flowing motorway in the UK and aside from Oxford has a remarkable lack of congestion causing on/off ramp density. At any reasonable average motorway speed you can easily make it in 1.5 hours driving at the motorway average speed, unless you are stupid enough to try it at rush hour, are driving at old biddy speeds or are travelling there using the A40 on a moped. I drive past BHX on the way to LHR and back at least once a week, never taken anywhere near 2.5 hours, and you'd be very inept, daft enough not to bother seeing a way of avoiding the M25, or just plain unlucky for it to do so. I can make MAN to LHR in an average of 3 hours, never mind a quick tootle down the M40 from BHX.
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Monarch Man,
Thanks for getting the week off to an amusing start, unusual for a Monday morning.
Could I respectfully suggest that you try and find somewhere you can learn to read English, and also maps....
Thanks for getting the week off to an amusing start, unusual for a Monday morning.
Could I respectfully suggest that you try and find somewhere you can learn to read English, and also maps....
Last edited by MANFlyer; 25th Feb 2008 at 10:38.
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FlyZB speaks sense.
I would add that MAN could also try competing on service rather than on price (there's a novelty eh?) Little Chef recently tried cutting prices to win back business - look what happened.
If people want to fly, a few extra pence off the landing fees (if the airline even passes them on to pax) won't make much difference.
In case you haven't noticed, real inflation (petrol, diesel, gas, potatoes, wheat, local and national taxes) is far higher than RPI or CPI would suggest, and with the recent credit scares, people are tightening their belts. I know I am. Travel suddenly becomes optional not taken for granted, and this will also have an effect on traffic levels at most airports.
I would add that MAN could also try competing on service rather than on price (there's a novelty eh?) Little Chef recently tried cutting prices to win back business - look what happened.
If people want to fly, a few extra pence off the landing fees (if the airline even passes them on to pax) won't make much difference.
In case you haven't noticed, real inflation (petrol, diesel, gas, potatoes, wheat, local and national taxes) is far higher than RPI or CPI would suggest, and with the recent credit scares, people are tightening their belts. I know I am. Travel suddenly becomes optional not taken for granted, and this will also have an effect on traffic levels at most airports.
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Baby BCN
My post 2009 was fairly accurate and Madrid was of no surprise fitting
in nicely on Mo, Thu & Fri.
However I wonder how BCN fits in - latish departure, another aircraft,
cut route or did I miss something?
Still not bookable a minute ago.
Pete
in nicely on Mo, Thu & Fri.
However I wonder how BCN fits in - latish departure, another aircraft,
cut route or did I miss something?
Still not bookable a minute ago.
Pete
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WW
The BCN flights start in September. They operate on the same days and approx same times as MAD.
How can this be. The MAD took up the only gaps in the Schedule so how can BCN opreate without another A/C.
Viscount
How can this be. The MAD took up the only gaps in the Schedule so how can BCN opreate without another A/C.
Viscount