SOUTHEND - 2
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Southend - Ostend/Bruges with Easyjet/Flybe
In the sixties,Southend used to be the THIRD busiest airport in the UK after LHR and MAN,with SEN-Ostend claimed to be the busiest air route in the world!
Maybe now that the airport is going to revive ,and passengers are going to discover the convenience of a regional London airport, also the old cross-channel route to Ostend/Bruges can be re-opened...
If it is not Easyjet, Flybe or Aer Arran could jump on it (or Eastern airways or Manx2 or Aurigny....). It would be the fastest link between London area and Western Belgium,Northern France,Dutch province of Zeeland...
Maybe now that the airport is going to revive ,and passengers are going to discover the convenience of a regional London airport, also the old cross-channel route to Ostend/Bruges can be re-opened...
If it is not Easyjet, Flybe or Aer Arran could jump on it (or Eastern airways or Manx2 or Aurigny....). It would be the fastest link between London area and Western Belgium,Northern France,Dutch province of Zeeland...
compton3bravo
Well that's odd, because I always thought if you offer your potential customers (in no matter what type of market you operate) a more "pleasurable experience" than they currently get elsewhere, the "making money" aspect tends to follow on. I've obviously been going wrong all these years.........
I've never tried telling my clients that I'm only interested in "making money" from them rather than offering them the best service I can, but perhaps I should ..... or perhaps not.
French plonk? Why drink that when you can have Premier Cru? Oh, sorry I forgot about the price you have to pay for it over there, so yes best stick to your toffee water.
Well that's odd, because I always thought if you offer your potential customers (in no matter what type of market you operate) a more "pleasurable experience" than they currently get elsewhere, the "making money" aspect tends to follow on. I've obviously been going wrong all these years.........
I've never tried telling my clients that I'm only interested in "making money" from them rather than offering them the best service I can, but perhaps I should ..... or perhaps not.
French plonk? Why drink that when you can have Premier Cru? Oh, sorry I forgot about the price you have to pay for it over there, so yes best stick to your toffee water.
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BBMF are at margate's big event.
A late post, but would like to congratulate SEN with easyjet's arrival! I hope that it will start something big at Southend! I think people are jumping the gun with transport links. I am more than sure that national express and easybus will be announcing links into London.
What are chances of charters doing 'W' patterns?
Cp be
A late post, but would like to congratulate SEN with easyjet's arrival! I hope that it will start something big at Southend! I think people are jumping the gun with transport links. I am more than sure that national express and easybus will be announcing links into London.
What are chances of charters doing 'W' patterns?
Cp be
Last edited by Captinbirdseye; 19th Jun 2011 at 17:40.
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Southend - Ostend/Bruges with Easyjet/Flybe
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In the sixties,Southend used to be the THIRD busiest airport in the UK after LHR and MAN,with SEN-Ostend claimed to be the busiest air route in the world!
Maybe now that the airport is going to revive ,and passengers are going to discover the convenience of a regional London airport, also the old cross-channel route to Ostend/Bruges can be re-opened... If it is not Easyjet, Flybe or Aer Arran could jump on it (or Eastern airways or Manx2 or Aurigny....). It would be the fastest link between London area and Western Belgium,Northern France,Dutch province of Zeeland...
FLYAIR10 - You have heard of that little eurostar thing havn't you?
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In the sixties,Southend used to be the THIRD busiest airport in the UK after LHR and MAN,with SEN-Ostend claimed to be the busiest air route in the world!
Maybe now that the airport is going to revive ,and passengers are going to discover the convenience of a regional London airport, also the old cross-channel route to Ostend/Bruges can be re-opened... If it is not Easyjet, Flybe or Aer Arran could jump on it (or Eastern airways or Manx2 or Aurigny....). It would be the fastest link between London area and Western Belgium,Northern France,Dutch province of Zeeland...
FLYAIR10 - You have heard of that little eurostar thing havn't you?
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There was a time when they tried a fast water craft, perhaps a Boeing jetfoil, service to/from London (Thames) and Ostend or Zeebrugge with the idea that one jumps on/off the craft and on/off a train to umpteen European destinations, there was obviously so many people wanting to travel between London and Flanders coast that service is buried in history and having lived/worked in Flanders for 2.5 years I can understand why nobody wants to go there and why OST is, basically, a cargo airport.
FLYAIR10 ... How about flying cars etc. in aircraft across the channel, that worked well historically also?
FLYAIR10 ... How about flying cars etc. in aircraft across the channel, that worked well historically also?
Ah, the nostalgia of the P & O Jetferries service!
It had a wonderful habit of sucking in debris on the Thames as it set off for Belgium and thus going tech. I say 'wonderful' because, as the air charter broker contracted to provide an aircraft to ferry the pax from SEN to OST when this happened, it supplied us with a nice little earner.
How we obtained the contract was interesting in itself. P & O used to use their in-house travel agency to obtain aircraft for this until one evening they had all gone home so they contacted us to see if we could help. It transpired that their agency often chartered 707s from Laker ex LGW, while we used TEA 737s ex SEN. Obviously the price saving was in the order of 50% so they used us in future. On one such flight TEA's Chief Pilot was in command of the positioning flight to SEN from BRU and decided he had never tried the 'max' setting on the autobrake and here was a good opportunity. The aircraft stopped extremely quickly ..... and remained stopped as the brakes had seized on one side. We had to send one of our Aztecs to LTN (in those days runway 15/33 still existed at SEN) to collect an engineer and a couple of wheels and brake units. I think the aircraft eventually departed at around sunrise! Oh, happy days.
It had a wonderful habit of sucking in debris on the Thames as it set off for Belgium and thus going tech. I say 'wonderful' because, as the air charter broker contracted to provide an aircraft to ferry the pax from SEN to OST when this happened, it supplied us with a nice little earner.
How we obtained the contract was interesting in itself. P & O used to use their in-house travel agency to obtain aircraft for this until one evening they had all gone home so they contacted us to see if we could help. It transpired that their agency often chartered 707s from Laker ex LGW, while we used TEA 737s ex SEN. Obviously the price saving was in the order of 50% so they used us in future. On one such flight TEA's Chief Pilot was in command of the positioning flight to SEN from BRU and decided he had never tried the 'max' setting on the autobrake and here was a good opportunity. The aircraft stopped extremely quickly ..... and remained stopped as the brakes had seized on one side. We had to send one of our Aztecs to LTN (in those days runway 15/33 still existed at SEN) to collect an engineer and a couple of wheels and brake units. I think the aircraft eventually departed at around sunrise! Oh, happy days.
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That news in Echo I'm not sure about. This whole JOIN thing seems a bit unclear, a bunch of startup airlines to form an alliance? Mhm, okay. Im sure Southend will be getting the stobart trucks and helicopter out for that....
I shouldn't write off JOIN as easily as that.
The people behind it are not idiots nor lacking industry experience. It's a different approach I'll grant you and not the best of economic times to be starting a new airline, but they do have the 'Southend factor' to help them. As is ever the case, the really important element is whether the routes they are proposing can be profitable and not so much how the airline is structured.
The people behind it are not idiots nor lacking industry experience. It's a different approach I'll grant you and not the best of economic times to be starting a new airline, but they do have the 'Southend factor' to help them. As is ever the case, the really important element is whether the routes they are proposing can be profitable and not so much how the airline is structured.
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P&O Jetfoil
Briefly off topic.... but I did smile when I read this. As an Anglo-Belgian family, after we stopped using BAF SEN-OST, it was then onto Hoverlloyd coach service from London to Brussels or Jetfoil (when it relocated to Dover) and later on, Hoverspeed from Dover. The SRN4 hovercraft were a great ride for a youngster and made up for not going on Carvairs any more. But the ride onthe Jetfoil was supreme and the RMT (not that RMT, the Belgian ferry company) crew were fabulous. It smelt like Belgium as soon as you got on board - coffee and Belga cigarette smoke!
For those of us that travel to/from northern Flanders/Antwerp, flying still has the edge over Eurostar but, unfortunately, fares LCY/ANR are more than twice as expensive as Eurostar. The reality is 1hr into London, up to 1hr at St Pancras, 2 hrs to Brussels, up to 45 minutes changing trains and then another 40/50 minutes on a stopping service to Antwerp versus 1hr at airport and 50 mins flying time to ANR.
Back on topic......
For those of us that travel to/from northern Flanders/Antwerp, flying still has the edge over Eurostar but, unfortunately, fares LCY/ANR are more than twice as expensive as Eurostar. The reality is 1hr into London, up to 1hr at St Pancras, 2 hrs to Brussels, up to 45 minutes changing trains and then another 40/50 minutes on a stopping service to Antwerp versus 1hr at airport and 50 mins flying time to ANR.
Back on topic......
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Easyjet and Stobarts media footage, showing all of the current improvements including the new control tower, station, terminal and road diversion.
Videos Posted by London Southend: easyJet Media Footage [HD] | Facebook
Videos Posted by London Southend: easyJet Media Footage [HD] | Facebook
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StevieC -
Your post is perfectly on topic as a number of routes are being suggested between SEN & Belgium / Holland.
However, I disagree with your maths - are you assuming a start point of SEN, rather than central London for your 'one hour into London' - or just a generic point somewhere in the London burbs but well outside Zone 1?
Travel time to LCY? Our stereotypical diamond trader will be much closer to KX-SPI! Oddly enough, HSL Zuid doesn't seem to have made much difference, but I still get a total journey time of just over 3 hrs - and that is city centre (or as close as Parliament would allow) to the fantastic multi-level Antwerp Centraal station (let's assume our stereotypical diamond trader appreciates such beauty). If not, ANR is very close to the city centre but you still have all the hassles of going through security, taxiing etc.
3 hours is well within the zone where most people will switch to rail - Eurostar only tell us that they carry more people on LON - BRU & PAR than all the airlines together - they don't say much about other cities but I would suggest tht by the time the free transfer to anywhere in Belgium is thrown in, ES wins to ANR, Bruges etc too.
AMS is well within range for people who have a preference for rail travel, but otherwise air still seems to win, so it is a natural choice for SEN.
As for PAR? Doesn't work for LGW or STN - considering that SPI is a quick swing round the Circle/MetH&C from LPL St, my guess is that it wouldn't work at SEN either.
Your post is perfectly on topic as a number of routes are being suggested between SEN & Belgium / Holland.
However, I disagree with your maths - are you assuming a start point of SEN, rather than central London for your 'one hour into London' - or just a generic point somewhere in the London burbs but well outside Zone 1?
Travel time to LCY? Our stereotypical diamond trader will be much closer to KX-SPI! Oddly enough, HSL Zuid doesn't seem to have made much difference, but I still get a total journey time of just over 3 hrs - and that is city centre (or as close as Parliament would allow) to the fantastic multi-level Antwerp Centraal station (let's assume our stereotypical diamond trader appreciates such beauty). If not, ANR is very close to the city centre but you still have all the hassles of going through security, taxiing etc.
3 hours is well within the zone where most people will switch to rail - Eurostar only tell us that they carry more people on LON - BRU & PAR than all the airlines together - they don't say much about other cities but I would suggest tht by the time the free transfer to anywhere in Belgium is thrown in, ES wins to ANR, Bruges etc too.
AMS is well within range for people who have a preference for rail travel, but otherwise air still seems to win, so it is a natural choice for SEN.
As for PAR? Doesn't work for LGW or STN - considering that SPI is a quick swing round the Circle/MetH&C from LPL St, my guess is that it wouldn't work at SEN either.
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I don't dispute what you say. My comments are purely emotional and reactionary rather than a strategic analysis. It just feels a lot quicker and a lot less hassle to fly to me. We use Eurostar without complaint and if I'm not rushing to/from work, it's fine. Clearing security and arrival etc. at LCY is rarely a problem and certainly not a problem in ANR which is a very small airport only handling a few CityJet flights daily - it would be very different if we were talking about large airports. Plane to car in ANR (including baggage collection if I have to) is normally achieved in less than 10 mins and I can wave to my family as I walk to the terminal! This is the joy of small regional airports like ANR and now SEN.
Whilst I adore the Centraal station in Antwerp, it's still easier to use Berchem if (like me and many others) you don't stay in the city centre. Deurne (the airport) is also easier to get to/from than Centraal. Fastest rail timings use Thalys services from Brussel-Zuid to Antwerpen-Centraal but I avoid these as (a) want to get off in Berchem and (b) it's a 'booked' service; I prefer the flexibility of using the IR/IC services - you can just travel when you want to.
My understanding is that the proposed through London-Amsterdam trains are unlikely to stop in Antwerp anyway. Although that may change I suppose - seems a bit bonkers.
NB - no free onward rail travel in Belgium anymore on a Eurostar ticket! You now have to pay a supplement at the time of booking.
Whilst I adore the Centraal station in Antwerp, it's still easier to use Berchem if (like me and many others) you don't stay in the city centre. Deurne (the airport) is also easier to get to/from than Centraal. Fastest rail timings use Thalys services from Brussel-Zuid to Antwerpen-Centraal but I avoid these as (a) want to get off in Berchem and (b) it's a 'booked' service; I prefer the flexibility of using the IR/IC services - you can just travel when you want to.
My understanding is that the proposed through London-Amsterdam trains are unlikely to stop in Antwerp anyway. Although that may change I suppose - seems a bit bonkers.
NB - no free onward rail travel in Belgium anymore on a Eurostar ticket! You now have to pay a supplement at the time of booking.
I don't think I've seen ANR on any prospective airline's wish list from SEN and I've always considered it as more the possibility of Cityjet transferring a couple of their 5 x daily LCY services to SEN.
My logic for that firstly is the London Gateway Port now under construction which could generate shipping related traffic from ANR. Secondly, flight times and DOCs would be considerably less to SEN than LCY and lastly, slot restraints at LCY may mean Cityjet could better use a couple for new destinations when/if their LCY network continues to grow.
I checked out fares on Eurostar for a couple of dates late July and these were €308 and €286 for semi-flex return travel. I reckon I would allow 3hrs30min for the journey allowing for the change at Brussels, so there's not much in it timewise nor costwise probably.
My logic for that firstly is the London Gateway Port now under construction which could generate shipping related traffic from ANR. Secondly, flight times and DOCs would be considerably less to SEN than LCY and lastly, slot restraints at LCY may mean Cityjet could better use a couple for new destinations when/if their LCY network continues to grow.
I checked out fares on Eurostar for a couple of dates late July and these were €308 and €286 for semi-flex return travel. I reckon I would allow 3hrs30min for the journey allowing for the change at Brussels, so there's not much in it timewise nor costwise probably.
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Ef,
I would imagine that the LCY-ANR route can only work by offering a decent frequency - go down to 2-3 / day and people will switch to ES+conx. SEN is too far from Central London to attract a route like this that relies as Steviec9 says on city airports at both ends.
Steviec9 - I stand corrected on the free transfer. But my way of thinking is always train first - haven't driven now for nearly a year but that's another story! So yes, plane to car @ ANR is indeed very easy.
I agree it would seem like madness to run ES to AMS & not stop @ ANR - presumably not RTM either? My initial thinking was this might be to do with ppt control, but afaik Eurostar takes domestic pax between Paris & Calais, so why not take pax between AMS & LIL?
Going back to SEN, I would still say that in the region 'reachable' by ES & conx (let's say 4hrs), AMS is the most likely destination, but DUS or CGN might be possible too?
I would imagine that the LCY-ANR route can only work by offering a decent frequency - go down to 2-3 / day and people will switch to ES+conx. SEN is too far from Central London to attract a route like this that relies as Steviec9 says on city airports at both ends.
Steviec9 - I stand corrected on the free transfer. But my way of thinking is always train first - haven't driven now for nearly a year but that's another story! So yes, plane to car @ ANR is indeed very easy.
I agree it would seem like madness to run ES to AMS & not stop @ ANR - presumably not RTM either? My initial thinking was this might be to do with ppt control, but afaik Eurostar takes domestic pax between Paris & Calais, so why not take pax between AMS & LIL?
Going back to SEN, I would still say that in the region 'reachable' by ES & conx (let's say 4hrs), AMS is the most likely destination, but DUS or CGN might be possible too?