Easyjet - 3

[rhythm method]

It gives me confidence (although that confidence may be irrational), that the company won't resent deploying the oxygen masks for me, or replacing the l/g tyres if the tread looks less than optimal.

What an idiotic and immature statement... I hope it was a poor attempt at humour .

As every airline should say, "safety is our priority". With us, it is... and I can guarantee you, I would NEVER accept ANY aircraft for a service if I had even the slightest qualms about it. I have a family and children who I do not want to leave orphaned... that forms much of my decision-making in every aspect of my life.

Let's lay off the stupid idea that low-cost means low standards of safety or service.

[paarmo]

easyjets 350 aircraft

Are these options to buy or firm orders?
Ryanair are now saddled with lots of aircraft now that the Boeing strike is finished. It will be interesting to see what they do with them and the retiring aircraft when they start to arrive in a couple of weeks time.

[Finman]

I was in Berlin SXF early tonight and 8 or 9 Sleazyjets parked up! Maybe this is why Stelios doesn't want them to continue 'expanding' at the moment. The current Board seem to be in a competition with Ryanair to be the biggest. The biggest 'what' is the question.

[overthewing]

As every airline should say, "safety is our priority"

Rhythm, I'm sure that most airlines would claim an earnest attitude to safety. However, having travelled worldwide with more airlines than I can count, I no longer have confidence that safety is more than crossed fingers for some of them. I've had more than one moment (mainly Asian airlines, sorry) where it was apparent that the cabin crew hadn't a clue how to deal with any crisis beyond a spilled coffee, and the flight crew never made their presence known beyond getting the plane airborne and landing it.

With carriers like Easyjet and Ryanair, I don't doubt that the flight crew are first rate and the cabin crew well trained. But so many other aspects of the flight pay lip service to the concept of safety. For example, when everyone's encouraged to bring hand-luggage only, the overhead lockers get packed with huge heavy cases that you really don't want to have fall on your head in the event of turbulence. Are those lockers really designed for that kind of loading, I wonder? Often, after landing, you find the plane taxiing at an rate that seems to push the bounds of what's safe; doubtless it's within legal limits, but only just. And most of the time you don't walk off the plane via an air-bridge; you pick your way down a dark steep staircase and drag your massive hand-luggage to a stand-up bus, get driven for miles round the perimeter from a non-stand no-man's-land, clinging desperately to an overhead strap and trying to avoid having your leg broken by someone else's wheeled luggage rolling down the bus at you. This may not be in the same league as depressurisation at 37,000 feet, but as a passenger I can't avoid a sense that my safety, as far as the company's concerned, goes exactly as far as the legalities insist, and not a step beyond.

Do I expect the oxygen masks to drop? Yes, I do. The company would be in big trouble if they didn't. Do I think the company will make serious efforts above and beyond the legal minimum to maximise the chances of them dropping? Well no, I don't. The no-frills aesthetic is so evident, it's hard not to feel that safety standards beyond what they can be caught out for legally, would not be considered.

I stand to be told that the lo-cos have maintenance, training and general safety standards well in excess of the mainline airlines. Perhaps they do. But when I'm made to stand in a bad-tempered queue, bundled onto a plane by bad-tempered staff, forced to sit in a seat under a locker in which someone has strained to stow a rucksack he can hardly lift, asked to pay for a crap sandwich and told crisply to get settled by a flight crew desperate not to miss their slot, I can't help but feel that the company will not have spent a penny more than it absolutely has to in ensuring my safety.

Perhaps you can tell me otherwise.

[TheSwede]

"I was in Berlin SXF early tonight and 8 or 9 Sleazyjets parked up! Maybe this is why Stelios doesn't want them to continue 'expanding' at the moment. The current Board seem to be in a competition with Ryanair to be the biggest. The biggest 'what' is the question."

Saturday evenings out of Berlin? Where would they fly and make some money?

[Speevy]

Overthewing, sorry but we all due respect (since you could be one of the guys paying my bills) you are talking nonsense!

1) Overhead locker are designed to support weight, next time you fly look at the plackard you can find on the side.

2)

I stand to be told that the lo-cos have maintenance, training and general safety standards well in excess of the mainline airlines.

Indeed FR and U2 flight crew training departement have a really good reputation in the industry.

3)Maintainace is a requirement and all airlines have to follow the required steps, no one will do more than what is required.

You obviously don't know what you are talking about so please stop posting non sense!
How would you feel if I spit untrue judgments on your company/business?

Speevy

[Pinkman]

Speevy, Overwing

We've had the debate endlessly on pprune. Overwing is asking whether there is a effectively a 'single culture' that runs through an airline and whether, when that is evidenced on the cabin side as inadequate (poorly trained, rude, hostile, demotivated staff etc.) whether that evidences similar attitutudes in maintenance and crew training and proficiency.

The conclusion always seems to be that it depends. Overwings post touches a nerve with his comment about SOME Asian (and African) airlines, many of whom dont even realize they have a culture. I have had that, but I have also had the same experiences around the world with large European carriers. Only last year I sat at Schipol for 50 minutes after scheduled departure time for a 747 flight to CGK, watching the flight deck crew read their newspapers and when I asked the cabin crew, they said they were too scared to ask for information on why we were delayed. Extraordinary!

Equally, I know that some lo-cos have a duality where their training and crew scheduling systems are really first rate compared to the bare-bones approach to passenger management. I use consultants that also work for airlines and I know some of them DO NOT do the bare minimum, in fact some of their programs would put mainstream carriers to shame.

So you really can't say. But you can make an educated guess. And if you ask around you might get some surprises.

Pinkman

[vanHorck]

I have great confidence in EZY. Their crew and planes are fresh,a new generation, allowing them to develop their business in a way which is made possible by modern technology and attitude.

(quiz: how old is the oldest still running EZY plane?)

Being so young it is not lumbered by old habbits, customs and culture. I'll fully admit that the experience of the older generation has many benefits but I suspect that on balance of things, a modern fleet of craft and crew and attitudes makes for a more healthy company mixing economics and safety, meaning best possible safety at a competitive commercial rate.

(perhaps if EZY bought Alitalia the italians would get a better product for less money)

Most people hate change, and will find arguments why change should not happen or why the old ways are better. I do not belong to that category.

[bizdev]

Lo Cost Maintenance

In my experience with both EZY and RYN, their maintenance programme in many areas are in excess of the MPD (Boeing/Airbus Maintenance Planning Data). The whole premise of Low Cost is High Utilisation = heavy use of the aircraft in excess of the Boeing/Airbus assumed standard/average utilisation. Therefore LCCs have adjusted their maintenance programmes to reflect the high utilisation and therefore aim to make the aircraft as reliable as possible.

[racedo]

"For example, when everyone's encouraged to bring hand-luggage only, the overhead lockers get packed with huge heavy cases that you really don't want to have fall on your head in the event of turbulence. Are those lockers really designed for that kind of loading, I wonder?"

Overthewing - Seriously have you flown EZY or FR ?

Ryanair have a 15kg carryon limit that they check - too heavy and its gets checked. Contrast this with the no weight carry on and you see pax on airlines asking for assistance to put them in the overheads......as a passenger if someone has a really heavy bulky case I refuse and suggest they check it. Cue abuse but I tell them if you can't lift it up then how you going to lift it down.

[Fil]

1) Overhead locker are designed to support weight, next time you fly look at the plackard you can find on the side.

True, but how many times do you see the overhead lockers jammed full with many cases that have a combined weight well in excess of the allowed weight. Some airlines, both LoCo and Legacy, do not consider this overloading of lockers by passengers a problem and it probably isn't unless something goes wrong. Hardly ever now but in the past with some airlines I have experienced every item of hand-baggage getting weighed. Then, of course we all buy litres of duty free!!

[harbour cotter]

Perhaps off-topic, but I share concerns over what is being placed in overhead lockers. I am a regular Pax, and I have seen several pieces of luggage fall. Usually without incident but occassionally it has hit pax (curiously it never seems to be the person who placed it) and also CC. This is usually after pax have opened the lockers in flight and not closed them properly or prior to take off & after landing. I have also received bruising from a pax trying to force luggage into a locker which was obviously not just too heavy to lift without a fork-lift truck, but even if she had been successful in lifting it, it was very obviously too large to fit. Her endeavours managed to involve several pax, most of whom received bruising before assistance to place the luggage/small home elsewhere on the plane by CC. Eventually this not inconsiderable loading of the lockers will ultimately contribute to something much worse, although I would rather be proved wrong.

[no sponsor]

I think overthewing touches on an interesting point. He is referring to confidence, or the warm and fuzzy cosseted feeling passengers want to receive. Entirely different than suggesting significant ADDs are carried, or not even written up - if you see poorly paid, unmotivated staff, who clearly should not be in the job, anyone will draw those same conclusions about the oily bits on an aircraft, irrespective of the truth.

Whatever you may want to feel, having a 18 year old with no manners and being rude doesn't inspire any confidence, or the desire to return. Appearance, confidence and the experience means alot to the average punter.

[Jumping Jack Flash]

overthewing

"................or replacing the l/g tyres if the tread looks less than optimal."

Relax. Had the man himself onboard my flight recently (ish). Had a good looking tyre/wheel changed because it was deflated below limits. Delay approx 1:15 at destination. His a/c? My approach to Safety!!

[UP and Down Operator]

Hmm, and what does luggage in overhead lockers or 18 year old stewardesses having to do with Sir Stelios trying to take control and slow down the growth of the compay ???????

Any thoughts of the idea that we are trying to save any penny we can on fuel and optimised effeciency, talks about cutting crew-costs, and all just so the money can be paid directly to the shareholders in stead of securing our own job in the future??? (according to the statement made about his reasons to "take control")

BACK TO TOPIC PLEASE GENTS

[qwertyuiop]

I don't know much about the details of Easy's Airbus orders. Was the purchase price was in US$? If this is the case have we just seen the cost of each airframe increase as the pound tumbles?

Is now the time for a big increase in fleet numbers? I believe Stelios is correct.

[Husky One]

They would still be cheap if you're hedged at £1 = $2. But given the other factors it becomes very complicated. If the Economy recovers in 2010 then the current AMB strategy looks sound enough. Clearly Stelios doesn't think so.

[jettesen]

Overwing - in response to your post of lack of safety in loco's, I would just like to say that BA cabin crew do their annual refresher training on a computer, which they can download the questions and answers at home, and practice at home several months before their exams, where all other airlines dont get this 'luxury' and have to read manuals and study hard in order to pass the exam. BA have 150 questions they can practise on, out of which get asked something like 40 out of that 150 on the day. How can this be safe???? do they read manuals??? or just learn the answers???

They dont learn location diagrams and get examined on them. Other airlines do. Safety in NOT comprimosed on any airline be it full service or loco, but loco's have a reputation to keep up and if they have an accident, their name wil be in tatters , hence why safety is their main priority no matter what cost to the company. Do you ever see main carrier cabin crew stop the demo to get pax to be quiet and pay attention??? i think not because their demo's are on video screens and cant be paused once started. Dont think that BA, Virgin or and big name carriers are safer than the loco's because this simply isnt true. Look at how many ryanair / easyjet flights there are every year opposed tp ba/virgin flights per year and see who has more incidents...........Think you will be very suprised.

P.s Your G&T isn't free.......... you paid £20 for it in your ticket!!lol

[UP and Down Operator]

JETTESEN, can you please start another discussion with this nonsenes instead of twisting this to something irrelevant (in relation to the TOPIC)!!

[quant]

I spotted this story on the times webby this morning.

Sir Stelios Haji-Ioannou says he does not want easyJet chairman out

Sir Stelios Haji-Ioannou, the founder of easyJet, insisted last night that he did not want to oust Sir Colin Chandler as chairman, despite his concern about the struggling budget airline’s strategy.