Virgin - 2
Considerably Bemused Wannabe
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Sorry to temporarily take the direction of this thread off the 380, but does anyone know when the first 744 will be painted in the new livery? Nice to see G-VRED now flying – looks mighty fine!
It’s interesting news about the 380 though. What does this mean for their expansion plans? Will they retain/extend operations of the 343’s and 744’s to cover the 4 year delay? Or could VS lease some more a/c as an interim measure?
If no new/leased aircraft are introduced, am I right in saying this will probably halt the EGKK expansion? As I thought the 744 fleet was destined for EGKK ops as the 380 came to EGLL.
Thanks,
eP
It’s interesting news about the 380 though. What does this mean for their expansion plans? Will they retain/extend operations of the 343’s and 744’s to cover the 4 year delay? Or could VS lease some more a/c as an interim measure?
If no new/leased aircraft are introduced, am I right in saying this will probably halt the EGKK expansion? As I thought the 744 fleet was destined for EGKK ops as the 380 came to EGLL.
Thanks,
eP
According to The Times, this is a precursor to eventual cancellation.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/ar...7-2423919.html
I'm sure some of the experts here will know better......
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/ar...7-2423919.html
I'm sure some of the experts here will know better......
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Is this flying circus going to translate into more leg room ? More elbow room ? Lower prices ? ... or is it simply going to to be more hassle at check-in... luggage retrieval, immigration and better profits for the airlines ? Your guess...
As far as I'm concerned they can delay it until 3013.
As far as I'm concerned they can delay it until 3013.
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As far as I'm concerned they can delay it until 3013.[/quote]
Kinda agree with you there..Virgin said they are deferring them till 2013 so that by the time they do recieve them all the little niggles etc will be sorted.Hmmmm.......
Where is leezyjet when you need him. Wonder if he has something to say on this....
Kinda agree with you there..Virgin said they are deferring them till 2013 so that by the time they do recieve them all the little niggles etc will be sorted.Hmmmm.......
Where is leezyjet when you need him. Wonder if he has something to say on this....
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All to do with jumping on the bandwagon, get your name associated with a big new project, get models produced in your airline's colours (as they did with Concorde) which Mr B has always been good at.
I believe that Virgin has been intending to dump the A380 for years and the delays have proved a great opportunity to do it and shift the blame.
Whatever happened to all the talk of twinjets for Virgin ?!!!
I believe that Virgin has been intending to dump the A380 for years and the delays have proved a great opportunity to do it and shift the blame.
Whatever happened to all the talk of twinjets for Virgin ?!!!
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Ordering aircraft is a very, very expensive way of achieving publicity. Virgin is very good at getting publicity without paying through the nose for it. A380s were not ordered on a whim, or for a bit of publicity. Suggesting they were is ridiculous.
The A380 was ordered because Virgin saw no real prospect of acquiring great numbers of extra slots at Heathrow, and so needed a way of increasing capacity available for each of the existing slots. The A380 was the only aircraft available at the time that matched that ambition.
Since that order, the rate of growth at Virgin has slowed somewhat, more slots have been acquired, and the need for that extra capacity has diminished - though capacity will continue to increase substantially with the arrival of further A340-600s. That said, the delivery of the last few 346s has also been delayed along with the 380.
In the timescale that now applies, Boeing will have the B747-8i available. It may well prove to better suit Virgin's ambitions than the A380; I have no doubt that the Times is correct in stating that Virgin is talking to Boeing about this aircraft - and others.
The twinjet question depends on Virgin's expansion programme's objectives. Twins make little sense for Virgin out of Heathrow, when most services fill either an A346 or a B744. Slots at LHR are too valuable to 'waste' on smaller aircraft except on new routes. For that purpose, there are a number of A343s remaining. Out of Gatwick, or the regional airports, they make more sense for some holiday routes, but this would be a major policy change for Virgin with ramifications for almost every department of the airline. Such a move would need to be planned carefully.
Taking over BMI? That discussion's been done to death before!
The A380 was ordered because Virgin saw no real prospect of acquiring great numbers of extra slots at Heathrow, and so needed a way of increasing capacity available for each of the existing slots. The A380 was the only aircraft available at the time that matched that ambition.
Since that order, the rate of growth at Virgin has slowed somewhat, more slots have been acquired, and the need for that extra capacity has diminished - though capacity will continue to increase substantially with the arrival of further A340-600s. That said, the delivery of the last few 346s has also been delayed along with the 380.
In the timescale that now applies, Boeing will have the B747-8i available. It may well prove to better suit Virgin's ambitions than the A380; I have no doubt that the Times is correct in stating that Virgin is talking to Boeing about this aircraft - and others.
The twinjet question depends on Virgin's expansion programme's objectives. Twins make little sense for Virgin out of Heathrow, when most services fill either an A346 or a B744. Slots at LHR are too valuable to 'waste' on smaller aircraft except on new routes. For that purpose, there are a number of A343s remaining. Out of Gatwick, or the regional airports, they make more sense for some holiday routes, but this would be a major policy change for Virgin with ramifications for almost every department of the airline. Such a move would need to be planned carefully.
Taking over BMI? That discussion's been done to death before!
Considerably Bemused Wannabe
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Hi,
Personally, and probably naively, I would be surprised if VS cancelled their 380 orders. But not knowing the business like Scroggs and others here, that’s just my relatively uneducated opinion.
I was reading an interview with Airbus Project TP Peter Chandler, and he said VS has been heavily involved in the development of the 380 for a long time now, and he was personally involved even when he flew 340’s at VS. If what he’s saying is true, and I have no reason to doubt it isn’t, why would VS cancel their order having invested so much effort in to the aircraft?
Even though the growth at VS has slowed, and more slots at LHR have become available, aren’t there still routes which require increased available capacity?
OK the 747-8i would provide the increased capacity, which brings me back to my point about Virgins efforts into the 380.
I also have no doubt VS are talking to Boeing about certain aircraft in their product line. But aren’t VS also looking for a replacement for the bucket and spade 744’s based at LGW? Could they be talking to Boeing about the 747-8i for that purpose?
How many A343’s to VS intend to retain?
Cheers,
eP.
Personally, and probably naively, I would be surprised if VS cancelled their 380 orders. But not knowing the business like Scroggs and others here, that’s just my relatively uneducated opinion.
I was reading an interview with Airbus Project TP Peter Chandler, and he said VS has been heavily involved in the development of the 380 for a long time now, and he was personally involved even when he flew 340’s at VS. If what he’s saying is true, and I have no reason to doubt it isn’t, why would VS cancel their order having invested so much effort in to the aircraft?
Even though the growth at VS has slowed, and more slots at LHR have become available, aren’t there still routes which require increased available capacity?
OK the 747-8i would provide the increased capacity, which brings me back to my point about Virgins efforts into the 380.
I also have no doubt VS are talking to Boeing about certain aircraft in their product line. But aren’t VS also looking for a replacement for the bucket and spade 744’s based at LGW? Could they be talking to Boeing about the 747-8i for that purpose?
How many A343’s to VS intend to retain?
Cheers,
eP.
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The 'bucket and spade' 744s will inevitably be due for retirement eventually, though most are less than 10 years old now. At the moment, I would have thought that the B777-200/300 is the most likely replacement, though I believe the -300 would have similar ground manoeuvring problems that currently prevent the A346 from visiting the Caribbean. The B747-8i would also be in that frame (and is available in the same approximate time frame as the delayed A380), and would be suitable for some of the LGW routes as well as LHR, though (as now) the fit would be different for the two bases. It is quite possible that VS could choose to operate both the 747-8 and the A380 - and my bet would be that it'll be the -900 stretch that arrives, not the -800 version!
The Big Easy
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UK and Ireland Airline Fleet Listings
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http://www.jethros.i12.com/fleets/fl...n_atlantic.htm
jethros
UK and Ireland Airline Fleet Listings
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BMI ownership?
Back on the topic of VS acquiring BMI - Does anyone know the ownership breakdown of BMI? I know SAS sold their stake to Lufthansa several years ago. So what % does LH have? Who owns the rest?
Many of BMI's slots at LHR would be better deployed to long-haul use, IMO.
Many of BMI's slots at LHR would be better deployed to long-haul use, IMO.
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Robertkc
I believe its Sir Michael Bishop 50% plus one share, Lufthansa 30% less 1 share and SAS 20%
Think SAS owned 40% at one point but sold half of their stake to Lufthansa in 1999. Sir Michael bought out other directors a while back along with Lufthansa increasing its stake and has cleverly negotiated holding that all important single share giving him control of the airline in terms of voting rights, so any decision on a sale would be down to him, albeit with pressure one way or the other from SAS and Lufthansa - i believe years ago there was a small rumour about Lufthansa snapping it up as SAS wanted to sell out completely when they needed some extra cash.
I believe its Sir Michael Bishop 50% plus one share, Lufthansa 30% less 1 share and SAS 20%
Think SAS owned 40% at one point but sold half of their stake to Lufthansa in 1999. Sir Michael bought out other directors a while back along with Lufthansa increasing its stake and has cleverly negotiated holding that all important single share giving him control of the airline in terms of voting rights, so any decision on a sale would be down to him, albeit with pressure one way or the other from SAS and Lufthansa - i believe years ago there was a small rumour about Lufthansa snapping it up as SAS wanted to sell out completely when they needed some extra cash.
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Virgin/bmi:
BMI and Virgin
Virgin and BMI
Virgin/bmi latest rumour
bmi/Virgin again??
And, just for fun: BA to Buy Virgin Atlantic
BMI and Virgin
Virgin and BMI
Virgin/bmi latest rumour
bmi/Virgin again??
And, just for fun: BA to Buy Virgin Atlantic
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VS Phasing out A343
Any idea on where the phased out 343's will be going to? Rumours are that it could joing SNBA. They're looking to add an A333 but leasing prices are too high. How are leasing prices of the 343 compared to 330's?
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dupont
with a slew of 343s due to leave Air Canada's fleet over the next couple of years to make way for 777s I would say forward leasing prices are probably weak.
with a slew of 343s due to leave Air Canada's fleet over the next couple of years to make way for 777s I would say forward leasing prices are probably weak.
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VS are to canx there weekly NAS flights with effect 17 March 2007.
With the re-introduction of Chicago flights from April, do anyone think we will have a re-introduction of YYZ.
With the re-introduction of Chicago flights from April, do anyone think we will have a re-introduction of YYZ.
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Virgin Heading back over to Chicago
Virgin Atlantic Airways founder Sir Richard Branson said Monday he's bringing his planes back to Chicago and wants to reduce fuel consumption by towing them to and from runways.