Ryanair - 2
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: essex
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cyrano, from your graph if you take the continental figures the difference between 700 and 800 is quite small. This is due to the fact that the 800 has a very efficient cruise wing among other things. Now if you couple this to the low cost model which says that 20% of the passengers pay for 80% of the flight this difference is quickly eroded. Sure I accept that on an individual flight where pax numbers are low the smaller aircraft will be slightly cheaper. One less cabin crew member for one but the airline varies its schedule maximise loads and if it stopped getting that last 20% or part there of it would have to make more changes than just buying smaller aircraft.
Another factor that this doesn’t account for is that Ryanair by committing to a single type has managed to reduce both the purchase cost and the maintenance cost of the fleet. This means that each aircraft doesn’t need to produce such high revenue in order to be in profit. If your graph showed £1 profit per mile per aircraft I think it might tell a different story. Nice graph though.
Another factor that this doesn’t account for is that Ryanair by committing to a single type has managed to reduce both the purchase cost and the maintenance cost of the fleet. This means that each aircraft doesn’t need to produce such high revenue in order to be in profit. If your graph showed £1 profit per mile per aircraft I think it might tell a different story. Nice graph though.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,621
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Essexboy:
You're quite right, and I think we're actually in agreement: in practice the commonality benefits of a single-type fleet will considerably outweigh the operating cost advantages of the -700 on lighter sectors. My purpose in posting the graph was just to illustrate that there *is* an operating cost difference between the two variants.
Contrary to what some other posters have suggested, I don't think it would make sense for Ryanair to get -700s: sure, they'd optimise load factors in some cases, but they can no longer swap aircraft around as they want or they'd end up with overbooked flights. The complexity of their operation would go up - and all in order to save a relatively small % of operating cost on thinner routes.
To my mind, the conclusion to be drawn from these lower-load-factor routes of Ryanair's is not that they should be buying 737-700s but that they perhaps shouldn't be flying the routes. There are going to be some routes that can't just profitably be operated with a 737-800. (There will be others where the load factor is lower than average but the yields are good enough to make things worthwhile).
I recall a few years ago someone from Cathay Pacific (anyone remember who?) described the secret of their success as "the creative misuse of aircraft". He was referring to - for example - flying 747s on the one-hour sector from Hong Kong to Taipei in between intercontinental flights. The plane wasn't really optimised for that, but it made money and improved asset utilisation. I think that some of Ryanair's routes may be like that on a smaller scale.
C.
You're quite right, and I think we're actually in agreement: in practice the commonality benefits of a single-type fleet will considerably outweigh the operating cost advantages of the -700 on lighter sectors. My purpose in posting the graph was just to illustrate that there *is* an operating cost difference between the two variants.
Contrary to what some other posters have suggested, I don't think it would make sense for Ryanair to get -700s: sure, they'd optimise load factors in some cases, but they can no longer swap aircraft around as they want or they'd end up with overbooked flights. The complexity of their operation would go up - and all in order to save a relatively small % of operating cost on thinner routes.
To my mind, the conclusion to be drawn from these lower-load-factor routes of Ryanair's is not that they should be buying 737-700s but that they perhaps shouldn't be flying the routes. There are going to be some routes that can't just profitably be operated with a 737-800. (There will be others where the load factor is lower than average but the yields are good enough to make things worthwhile).
I recall a few years ago someone from Cathay Pacific (anyone remember who?) described the secret of their success as "the creative misuse of aircraft". He was referring to - for example - flying 747s on the one-hour sector from Hong Kong to Taipei in between intercontinental flights. The plane wasn't really optimised for that, but it made money and improved asset utilisation. I think that some of Ryanair's routes may be like that on a smaller scale.
C.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Europa
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MADRID
More evidence of an imminent annonuncement of a new Ryanair base in Madrid:
http://www.presstur.com/site/news.asp?news=6632
"A Ryanair pretende operar a partir de Madrid para Roma, Milão ou Bruxelas."
So the list of potential destinations from Madrid Barajas currently stands at:
Granada
Canary Islands
Rome
Milan
Brussels
http://www.presstur.com/site/news.asp?news=6632
"A Ryanair pretende operar a partir de Madrid para Roma, Milão ou Bruxelas."
So the list of potential destinations from Madrid Barajas currently stands at:
Granada
Canary Islands
Rome
Milan
Brussels
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: essex
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cyrano it’s interesting what you say: there is a rumour in Ryanair at the moment that we are getting B777s. I am sure you are laughing as much as I did when I heard it but taking your “creative misuse of aircraft" quote and the use of the 747 by Cathay perhaps it’s not so daft. MOL is the master of taking someone else’s idea and making it his own.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Brighton, England
Age: 43
Posts: 708
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does anyone know if Ryanair's recently introduced Dublin-Humberside route is continuing for the winter? It seems to be the only route ex-DUB not on sale on their website. Pax figures have been OK but fall short of what FR wanted for the route.
Regards
Mike
Regards
Mike
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,621
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by essexboy
Cyrano it’s interesting what you say: there is a rumour in Ryanair at the moment that we are getting B777s. I am sure you are laughing as much as I did when I heard it but taking your “creative misuse of aircraft" quote and the use of the 747 by Cathay perhaps it’s not so daft. MOL is the master of taking someone else’s idea and making it his own.
Just purely hypothetically, what could FR do with a high-density 777? Yes, of course they could do long-haul, but I'm wondering more about what their densest European sectors are in terms of number of daily flights. DUB-STN? Are there others which are dense enough for them to credibly replace several 738 flights by one 777 flight? It seems to me that relatively few routes on the existing network have this density. Or would they just launch a higher-density operation e.g. from STN to Malaga, Faro and Marseille?
C.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Europa
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Christmas
I see that Ryanair are operating a limited number of flights on Sunday December 24th and Sunday December 31st, finishing the day around 4pm.
No flights Christmas day which is normal enough since most airports it operates to close that day, and also there is the question of staffing, and would there be many customers Christmas day... ?
Also on Tuesday the 26th of December again limited services with the first flights around 2pm...
No flights Christmas day which is normal enough since most airports it operates to close that day, and also there is the question of staffing, and would there be many customers Christmas day... ?
Also on Tuesday the 26th of December again limited services with the first flights around 2pm...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Europa
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NEW ROUTES!!!!!
From Luton to Morocco (Fez and Marrakech).
From Shannon to Bournemouth and Edinburgh.
From Stansted to TWO NEW DESTINATIONS: Deauville (North Western France) and Pula in Croatia.
Check out the route map on their site!!!
From Shannon to Bournemouth and Edinburgh.
From Stansted to TWO NEW DESTINATIONS: Deauville (North Western France) and Pula in Croatia.
Check out the route map on their site!!!
Last edited by Charlie Roy; 26th Jul 2006 at 09:47.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: DE74
Age: 49
Posts: 767
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Charlie Roy
THis is pretty much standard practice in most western airlines. Try working in LHR terminals on Christmas Day - a lonely experience. Only flights from/to countries where Christams is not a major holiday bar a few exceptions.
THis is pretty much standard practice in most western airlines. Try working in LHR terminals on Christmas Day - a lonely experience. Only flights from/to countries where Christams is not a major holiday bar a few exceptions.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ireland
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Screw the passenger
Ryanair today dropped NOC - LGW, hardly 2 weeks since hounding Easyjet off the route, so 2 become none.
The service was apparently doing well. SNN - LGW also. This sort of competition dose no one any good, definitely not the passengers in the south of England who use on these routes. Protecting the home market I suppose.
http://www.irelandwestairport.com/ne...42&dbtype=News
The service was apparently doing well. SNN - LGW also. This sort of competition dose no one any good, definitely not the passengers in the south of England who use on these routes. Protecting the home market I suppose.
http://www.irelandwestairport.com/ne...42&dbtype=News
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Coventry
Age: 48
Posts: 1,946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't see why FR would want to operate from MAD, however good the deal - isn't that airfield far too large for their type of operation?
Easyjet seem far more happy with the major hubs, whereas I'd suspect FR are looking at a few bargaining chips for other Aena properites (hey, and we complain here about BAA/Ferrovial's market share), or just playing MAD off against the new Don Quixote, which might just get to call itself Madrid South, considering that 200kms by AVE will take much less time than 100kms by a crawling bus.
And according to U2's website, LGW to NOC is staying over the winter, or am I misreading this?
Easyjet seem far more happy with the major hubs, whereas I'd suspect FR are looking at a few bargaining chips for other Aena properites (hey, and we complain here about BAA/Ferrovial's market share), or just playing MAD off against the new Don Quixote, which might just get to call itself Madrid South, considering that 200kms by AVE will take much less time than 100kms by a crawling bus.
And according to U2's website, LGW to NOC is staying over the winter, or am I misreading this?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Europa
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
3 new bases
Michael O'Leary said today that Ryanair expect to announce 3 new bases by the end of this year.
http://business.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=1086902006
"O'Leary said Ryanair expected to announce three new bases by the end of the year"
My money is on Madrid, Krakow and Porto. But wouldn't be surprised by Lübeck, Murcia, Beauvais, Torp, Wroclaw, Treviso, Riga, Tampere, Eindhoven, Bratislava, Weeze or Berlin.
Where do ye think the new bases are likely to be?
http://business.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=1086902006
"O'Leary said Ryanair expected to announce three new bases by the end of the year"
My money is on Madrid, Krakow and Porto. But wouldn't be surprised by Lübeck, Murcia, Beauvais, Torp, Wroclaw, Treviso, Riga, Tampere, Eindhoven, Bratislava, Weeze or Berlin.
Where do ye think the new bases are likely to be?
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: North of the border
Age: 71
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Charlie,
I would say that the RYR Christmas timetable is what they have done for as long as I can remember.
I would think that Poland is due to get a base. I don't believe Madrid will as yet and I think the others could be Porto and Eindhoven with Oslo Torp as an outsider.
I would say that the RYR Christmas timetable is what they have done for as long as I can remember.
I would think that Poland is due to get a base. I don't believe Madrid will as yet and I think the others could be Porto and Eindhoven with Oslo Torp as an outsider.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Now where di I lay that hat?
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So let's see. Competition comes on a route, ryan put in a service to compete and stuffs the competitor, then once the competitor throws in the towel Ryan pulls their service too, presumably after making a slight dent in their war chest of cash, sending a clear message that other airilnes should not mess with Ryanair's markets. Forget about the passengers who welcomed and supported the new service.
On the other hand, they drop routes beacuse an airport tries to increase charges, giving airports a clear message about not playing ball with Ryanairs model. try to charge more and we will move to the next gullible airfield who will hopefully play ball better.
Who's next?
On the other hand, they drop routes beacuse an airport tries to increase charges, giving airports a clear message about not playing ball with Ryanairs model. try to charge more and we will move to the next gullible airfield who will hopefully play ball better.
Who's next?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: STANSTED & MANCHESTER
Posts: 1,893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ryanair and canx flights
i have never known an airline to canx so many flights due to a thunder storm, i have just had a look on ryanairs website and they have canx over 10 flights due to the weather i live 20 or so miles from stansted and have not seen a flash of lightning or heard a crack of thunder this cant be right and i bet they dont pay out any compensation as this is an act of god
i would be intrested to here what other airline canx flights into and out of stansted tonight
it seems to me that it is all so easy to canx flights and not have to pay compensation when its due to weather
i would be also be intrested to know just how long and how bad the storm was
i would be intrested to here what other airline canx flights into and out of stansted tonight
it seems to me that it is all so easy to canx flights and not have to pay compensation when its due to weather
i would be also be intrested to know just how long and how bad the storm was
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Europa
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
daz211
It is not at all "so easy" to cancel flights. In fact it's the last thing they want to do, and costs them a lot of money even if they are not paying compensation. I would think the flights were cancelled because it was necessary to do so unfortunately
It is not at all "so easy" to cancel flights. In fact it's the last thing they want to do, and costs them a lot of money even if they are not paying compensation. I would think the flights were cancelled because it was necessary to do so unfortunately
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Europa
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Milan Bergamo - new winter routes?
Considering the FR aircraft that are based in Bergamo, and looking at the winter timetable, then they do the same work as in summer but with the following exceptions:
Glasgow: Reduced from 7 to 4 weekly flights
Brussels: Reduced from 7 to 0 weekly flights
Hamburg: Reduced from 7 to 4 weekly flights
Liverpool: Reduced from 4 to 0 weekly flights
Newcastle: Reduced from 3 to 0 weekly flights
The Brussels reduction is explained by a Brussels aircraft taking over from the Milan one. Thus, reductions in Brussels, Glasgow and Hamburg services add up to 13 freed up rotations per week. Therefore I foresee quite a number of new route announcements for Bergamo!!!
(I suspect that Liverpool and Newcastle have not been axed, but will rather be rescheduled amid the launching of the various new routes.)
Other bases:
Shannon has launched Bournemouth and Edinburgh for winter, both on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays. This new capacity has materialised out of thin air, suggesting that existing Shannon schedules will be modified shortly with a number of destinations seeing a reduction in order to facilitate these new routes.
Dublin is very difficult to figure out because summer and winter timetables differ significantly on several routes. But last week the winter schedule showed a Dublin based aircraft operating a late evening service to Cork on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays and Sundays. This has now disappeared, but hasn't been put to use on another destination. Potential for a new route here! Meanwhile Humberside remains unscheduled (although possibly axed), and there could be a few free rotations hanging around that I have missed...
Cork winter schedule contains some time descrepencies, so the flight times are likely to see some minor modifications.
Luton has a three and half hour rotation as of yet unscheduled Monday to Friday due to the axing of the Shannon route. Probably one more route announcement to come here then.
Glasgow: Reduced from 7 to 4 weekly flights
Brussels: Reduced from 7 to 0 weekly flights
Hamburg: Reduced from 7 to 4 weekly flights
Liverpool: Reduced from 4 to 0 weekly flights
Newcastle: Reduced from 3 to 0 weekly flights
The Brussels reduction is explained by a Brussels aircraft taking over from the Milan one. Thus, reductions in Brussels, Glasgow and Hamburg services add up to 13 freed up rotations per week. Therefore I foresee quite a number of new route announcements for Bergamo!!!
(I suspect that Liverpool and Newcastle have not been axed, but will rather be rescheduled amid the launching of the various new routes.)
Other bases:
Shannon has launched Bournemouth and Edinburgh for winter, both on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays. This new capacity has materialised out of thin air, suggesting that existing Shannon schedules will be modified shortly with a number of destinations seeing a reduction in order to facilitate these new routes.
Dublin is very difficult to figure out because summer and winter timetables differ significantly on several routes. But last week the winter schedule showed a Dublin based aircraft operating a late evening service to Cork on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays and Sundays. This has now disappeared, but hasn't been put to use on another destination. Potential for a new route here! Meanwhile Humberside remains unscheduled (although possibly axed), and there could be a few free rotations hanging around that I have missed...
Cork winter schedule contains some time descrepencies, so the flight times are likely to see some minor modifications.
Luton has a three and half hour rotation as of yet unscheduled Monday to Friday due to the axing of the Shannon route. Probably one more route announcement to come here then.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by daz211
i would be also be intrested to know just how long and how bad the storm was
There were several aircraft that had taxi'd and just sat waiting on the taxiway's.
11 FR and several EZY inbound aircraft were diverted to other airports (BHX, LTN, MSE, LGW) This is what caused the cancellations, as they could not operate their next rotations. Most of them did not make it back to STN until after 10pm.
It certainly was the worst storm I have witnessed in this country also some of the old hands at STN reported never seeing a storm of that force at STN.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Europa
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
airhumberside
Yes, there is a reduction in Charleroi.
At the moment there are 19 flights per week between Dublin and Charleroi. 7 using a Charleroi aircraft, 12 using Dublin aircraft. In winter Charleroi - Dublin will be reduced from 19 to 12 flights per week, with the Charleroi aircraft that normally does the evening Charleroi - Dublin now being used to do Charleroi - Bergamo...
Yes, there is a reduction in Charleroi.
At the moment there are 19 flights per week between Dublin and Charleroi. 7 using a Charleroi aircraft, 12 using Dublin aircraft. In winter Charleroi - Dublin will be reduced from 19 to 12 flights per week, with the Charleroi aircraft that normally does the evening Charleroi - Dublin now being used to do Charleroi - Bergamo...