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If the BLK/GLO rumour is true, do Loganair have any spare 328s laying around? Can't think of anyone else with 328s other than Sun Air. Could BLK handle a 328 or is it too big?
Join Date: Sep 2016
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virginblue,
How about they work, or can work, because of catchment area, lack of airport facilities etc?
Plymouth was one example, OK as I've previously mentioned ASW should have been ideally offering the population of Cornwall and west Devon with direct services operated by a smaller aircraft type but ASW were doing OK, they were stitched up when their owner decided that selling land for real estate was more important than operating an airport and airline.
Were Plymouth open today there would surely be a puddle jumper operation operating there, probably making a modest profit whilst gaining popularity for offering the catchment area a 'cottage industry' air service.
Just reading these past 24 hours regarding the IOM to BLK & GLO rumour just serves to prove my point, these routes would be lost were we to merely operate aircraft of 50+ seats, the IOM to BHD route has overnight increased from less than 20 seats to more than 30 seats, I don't know Citywing's load factors on this and other routes, nor how many times they may have operated daily or weekly, but will such routes prove to be viable when operated only once daily and with the increased capacity, i.e. can the operator round up enough punters at their given time of day to make the flight(s) profitable!
You see ... You agree with me 
I never said nor insinuated anything of the sort, I was an aviation professional myself for 35 years, why would I be calling myself a dimwit?
By your reckoning with the advent of major supermarkets, often out of town supermarkets, there is no, or there is to be no, place for local convenience stores.
Convenience stores shall continue to survive because they offer a service to their local catchment area particularly if the customer only wants a pint of milk and a loaf of bread, these can be bought cheaper at the supermarket but they can't be @ssed to go out of their way to save a modest amount of money, they're prepared to pay more for the convenience of their local retailer.
Sure Tesco is a much more attractive market segment but there's a living to be made from the convenience stores also, there are places in the market for both as there are places in the airline market for more than one model of operator.
You don't need to preach to me regarding low cost operations, these days I'm a self-employed hotelier of a 10 room Inn, I'm a low cost operator offering rooms cheaper than I know my competitors can or will match or improve upon, the @ss that I bought this land from is also a self-employed hotelier attempting to sell his rooms for three times the price, his place is invariably empty whilst my place is invariably full and he simply doesn't understand how I can be making money
Anyway, let's put this exchange of opinions to bed please
Nevertheless, the fact remains that reality in 2017 is that 1980s/1990s style regional flying is literally non-existent. Someone else has listed all what remains of the regional airline industry in the UK and explained why all these operations only work because of some very special circumstances (PSOs, monopoly through qirport ownership etc.)
Plymouth was one example, OK as I've previously mentioned ASW should have been ideally offering the population of Cornwall and west Devon with direct services operated by a smaller aircraft type but ASW were doing OK, they were stitched up when their owner decided that selling land for real estate was more important than operating an airport and airline.
Were Plymouth open today there would surely be a puddle jumper operation operating there, probably making a modest profit whilst gaining popularity for offering the catchment area a 'cottage industry' air service.
Just reading these past 24 hours regarding the IOM to BLK & GLO rumour just serves to prove my point, these routes would be lost were we to merely operate aircraft of 50+ seats, the IOM to BHD route has overnight increased from less than 20 seats to more than 30 seats, I don't know Citywing's load factors on this and other routes, nor how many times they may have operated daily or weekly, but will such routes prove to be viable when operated only once daily and with the increased capacity, i.e. can the operator round up enough punters at their given time of day to make the flight(s) profitable!
As for Glasgow - there are, I think, four possible options: Obviously Loganair, Aer Lingus doing a W-pattern with one of its ATRs on the DUB, ORK, SNN-routes, Easyjet with a low frequency, BRS-style service or Flybe with a Q400. Given the relatively low traffic volume, Loganair probably would be the smartest choice to guarantee some useful frequency.
I find your insinuation that apparently all investors and aviation professionals are dimwits as they refuse to engage in regional flying not terribly convincing.
If you insist that regional flying is still an attractive market segment,
Convenience stores shall continue to survive because they offer a service to their local catchment area particularly if the customer only wants a pint of milk and a loaf of bread, these can be bought cheaper at the supermarket but they can't be @ssed to go out of their way to save a modest amount of money, they're prepared to pay more for the convenience of their local retailer.
Sure Tesco is a much more attractive market segment but there's a living to be made from the convenience stores also, there are places in the market for both as there are places in the airline market for more than one model of operator.
You don't need to preach to me regarding low cost operations, these days I'm a self-employed hotelier of a 10 room Inn, I'm a low cost operator offering rooms cheaper than I know my competitors can or will match or improve upon, the @ss that I bought this land from is also a self-employed hotelier attempting to sell his rooms for three times the price, his place is invariably empty whilst my place is invariably full and he simply doesn't understand how I can be making money
Anyway, let's put this exchange of opinions to bed please
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Isle of Man
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The race to the bottom on prices is astonishing. I have an old Manx Airlines ticket for a special "Farecracker" flight to LPL in 1992 which gave me the privileged fare of £78 rtn.
I have a EZY RTN to BRS at the end of April which has cost me £48. From LPL it would cost me £48 in fuel to drive to Bristol, let alone the ferry fare to get me to LPL in the first place. Pricing like that can't be sustainable and its little wonder that smaller operators find it tough.
That said, Mrs Baps was a regular with Van Air to BHD and they weren't cheap. Over the last 18 months or so, her fares were averaging around £105 RTN.
I have a EZY RTN to BRS at the end of April which has cost me £48. From LPL it would cost me £48 in fuel to drive to Bristol, let alone the ferry fare to get me to LPL in the first place. Pricing like that can't be sustainable and its little wonder that smaller operators find it tough.
That said, Mrs Baps was a regular with Van Air to BHD and they weren't cheap. Over the last 18 months or so, her fares were averaging around £105 RTN.
Pricing like that can't be sustainable
Join Date: Mar 2017
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EZY IOM Autumn 2017
Times out so far for Autumn show -
BRS 2 Rotations a week,
LPL 7 Rotations a week,
LGW 13 Rotations a week, (2 Rotations Daily apart from Saturday)
LTN 3 Rotations a week.
Compared to a week in August, During October LGW Gains 3 Weekly Rotations, LTN + 1. BRS/LPL remain same
Will be interesting when Winter 17/18 comes out on Thursday to see what happens.
BRS 2 Rotations a week,
LPL 7 Rotations a week,
LGW 13 Rotations a week, (2 Rotations Daily apart from Saturday)
LTN 3 Rotations a week.
Compared to a week in August, During October LGW Gains 3 Weekly Rotations, LTN + 1. BRS/LPL remain same
Will be interesting when Winter 17/18 comes out on Thursday to see what happens.
Last edited by EZYMAN; 21st Mar 2017 at 12:52.
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Given that they fly some of the best equipped, most modern aircraft into the insland, I should imagine they've as much chance as anyone else with all respect Hanson.
Granted, there's less chance of them departing, bouncing off the runway somewhere then returning to winds double that of the demonstrated xwind limit like a Manx based two bob outfit, but that's why EasyJet has grown into an immensely safe operation flying up to 1600 flights every single day.
Granted, there's less chance of them departing, bouncing off the runway somewhere then returning to winds double that of the demonstrated xwind limit like a Manx based two bob outfit, but that's why EasyJet has grown into an immensely safe operation flying up to 1600 flights every single day.
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Baggage fees are made clear throughout the booking process & one cabin bag can always travel for free. Ryanair allow a second small bag for free.
BA always charged a fortune for last minutes, in addition to their every day high fares.
BA have also charged change fees for at least 20 years that I've been using them.
On many flights BA now charge for bags, food, seat selection and have always charged change fees in my lifetime.
BA always charged a fortune for last minutes, in addition to their every day high fares.
BA have also charged change fees for at least 20 years that I've been using them.
On many flights BA now charge for bags, food, seat selection and have always charged change fees in my lifetime.
Join Date: May 2008
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It seems every flight I've had with EZY or RYR in the last two years, without exception, has been delayed because of excessive cabin baggage. It's been so bad lately that even MOL has popped up to complain about passengers bringing 'half their house' with them on the flights. Strangely enough, I've not seem the same sorts of delays on BA.
What I find particularly annoying is passengers who bring oversize bags on board, complain when no space is left in the overhead bins, and so get their bags loaded into the holds --- free of charge ---- while those of us who checked our bags are charged. It's a form of fraud in my book.
What I find particularly annoying is passengers who bring oversize bags on board, complain when no space is left in the overhead bins, and so get their bags loaded into the holds --- free of charge ---- while those of us who checked our bags are charged. It's a form of fraud in my book.
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What I find particularly annoying is passengers who bring oversize bags on board, complain when no space is left in the overhead bins, and so get their bags loaded into the holds --- free of charge ---- while those of us who checked our bags are charged. It's a form of fraud in my book.
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BA have exactly the same problem on comparable aircraft routes. They have a more generous baggage policy and it takes an age. Try a morning full A320 CDG-LHR now that they charge extra for bags.
M-JCS. I used to fly with them weekly to commute. People getting on bags which don't fit inside the gauges is fairly rare. It's not fraud though, I can promise you that. The problem is that people think there's room for everyone to have a full size roll on, their coat and airport shopping in the over heads. People won't put things under the seat in front as their legroom is more important on a 40 minute hop than everyone getting their bag with them in the cabin.
People whinge about easyJet baggage problems. Remind me, how much did Manx2bobAirways allow in the cabin?
What makes the IOM so special that it is above LCCs? It has one semi full service flight to LCY. Everything else is LCC style, like most UK mainland locations are. IOM does very well for a place of its size.
M-JCS. I used to fly with them weekly to commute. People getting on bags which don't fit inside the gauges is fairly rare. It's not fraud though, I can promise you that. The problem is that people think there's room for everyone to have a full size roll on, their coat and airport shopping in the over heads. People won't put things under the seat in front as their legroom is more important on a 40 minute hop than everyone getting their bag with them in the cabin.
People whinge about easyJet baggage problems. Remind me, how much did Manx2bobAirways allow in the cabin?
What makes the IOM so special that it is above LCCs? It has one semi full service flight to LCY. Everything else is LCC style, like most UK mainland locations are. IOM does very well for a place of its size.
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EZY WINTER 2017-18
Times out so far for Autumn show -
BRS 2 Rotations a week,
LPL 7 Rotations a week,
LGW 13 Rotations a week, (2 Rotations Daily apart from Saturday)
LTN 3 Rotations a week.
Compared to a week in August, During October LGW Gains 3 Weekly Rotations, LTN + 1. BRS/LPL remain same
Will be interesting when Winter 17/18 comes out on Thursday to see what happens.
BRS 2 Rotations a week,
LPL 7 Rotations a week,
LGW 13 Rotations a week, (2 Rotations Daily apart from Saturday)
LTN 3 Rotations a week.
Compared to a week in August, During October LGW Gains 3 Weekly Rotations, LTN + 1. BRS/LPL remain same
Will be interesting when Winter 17/18 comes out on Thursday to see what happens.
With the release today of Winter I had a quick check for a week in December:
BRS Remains at 2 Weekly,
LPL 10 Weekly, (Some days going 2x Daily, others having no flights)
LGW 13 Weekly, (2x daily apart From Saturdays)
LTN (Only showing available until 27 October, so will see if more flights are loaded)
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[/QUOTE]What makes the IOM so special that it is above LCCs? It has one semi full service flight to LCY. Everything else is LCC style, like most UK mainland locations are. IOM does very well for a place of its size.[/QUOTE]
I had no intention of implying the IOM is 'special', HM; certainly not as regards aviation. I agree flight availability, in spite of its shortcomings, is better than one might expect for a small population.
My comment was, I suppose, aimed more at the current state of the industry and its continuously deteriorating standards for passengers. There is nothing pleasurable or comfortable about aviation any more; not in the aircraft or the airports (especially the major airports). It has all the charm of a cheap pair of flip-flops. It has turned into a monetised racket where, to use a phrase first employed by William Vanderbilt in the US many years ago, "the public be damned."
I had no intention of implying the IOM is 'special', HM; certainly not as regards aviation. I agree flight availability, in spite of its shortcomings, is better than one might expect for a small population.
My comment was, I suppose, aimed more at the current state of the industry and its continuously deteriorating standards for passengers. There is nothing pleasurable or comfortable about aviation any more; not in the aircraft or the airports (especially the major airports). It has all the charm of a cheap pair of flip-flops. It has turned into a monetised racket where, to use a phrase first employed by William Vanderbilt in the US many years ago, "the public be damned."
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With the release today of Winter I had a quick check for a week in December:
BRS Remains at 2 Weekly,
LPL 10 Weekly, (Some days going 2x Daily, others having no flights)
LGW 13 Weekly, (2x daily apart From Saturdays)
LTN (Only showing available until 27 October, so will see if more flights are loaded)
BRS Remains at 2 Weekly,
LPL 10 Weekly, (Some days going 2x Daily, others having no flights)
LGW 13 Weekly, (2x daily apart From Saturdays)
LTN (Only showing available until 27 October, so will see if more flights are loaded)
Join Date: Nov 2006
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I fly British Airways frequently at least 12 times a year as well the occasional flight with both EZY and RYR and I can assure you that the amount of time that passengers take putting their large cabin bags in the overhead lockers is the same as your find on the likes of EZY or RYR or any other legacy carriers, more and more passengers are taking cabin bags with them these days and it's the same situation throughout the world so it's not just the 'cheapskates' that experience this.
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It's both cost and convenience. It can add up to £50 or £60 for hold baggage depending who you fly with. Add on extra waiting time in baggage reclaim and suddenly a quick cheap business trip becomes an expensive one with extra hassle.
Airlines need to encourage and incentivise hold bag loading by reducing the charges and reducing the waiting time at the other end, if they want to avoid the cabin baggage debacle often seen now a days. I should add though that easyJet in my experience have always handled it very well in the terminal prior to boarding meaning it's marginally easier for the crew to manage in the cabin. And I say marginally for any easy crew on the forum.
Airlines need to encourage and incentivise hold bag loading by reducing the charges and reducing the waiting time at the other end, if they want to avoid the cabin baggage debacle often seen now a days. I should add though that easyJet in my experience have always handled it very well in the terminal prior to boarding meaning it's marginally easier for the crew to manage in the cabin. And I say marginally for any easy crew on the forum.
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Best airline I've known to handle cabin bags is KLM. E.g on the F70 if the flight is booked to over 60 then all the trolley cases apart from those in business or with frequent flyer cards get taken at the gate and tagged for the hold as DAA bags. These are then taken off in AMS first before the pax are allowed to disembark and they collect these as they disembark. Sounds complicated but works a treat. Never any issue with arguments why my bag cos everyone's is taken and it doesn't take extra time as it's normally done at check in or at the gate before boarding, the passengers even put their own bags on the bag trolley for the ramp lads if on a non airbridge stand.