Aer Lingus - 2
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Philadelphia here I come ...
... and San Francisco and somewhere else as well.
Looks like this is it! Mr. Cullen has said that he will wait until January for Open Skies to happen (fat chance of that) and then proceed with a bilateral with the US, which - assuming it's along the lines of the special deal agreed in November 2005, should allow EI to add three new US cities and the ratio of DUB:SNN flights to change to 3:1. It will also allow a pretty significant influx in US carriers to DUB. (How DUB is going to handle these ... well, let's just focus on he positive for now!
)
Cullen also had some critical words for the SNN lobby, warning them not to take comfort from the delays to Open Skies. He was apparently on RTE radio this morning, denouncing the stopover as archaic!
So, what's next. I'm guessing that EI already has the plans ready to roll - it certainly should have and once the deal is done with the US, the new flights can be launched.
A few questions arise:
1) The airline has already announced its provisional plans for next Summer, based on "Plan B" - i.e. nothing changing. Will these now go ahead and will the new US flights be on top of these?
2) If this is the case, EI will need to get hold of new aircraft for next Summer, since the two new A330s are "spoken for" in Plan B.
3) Will they seek to launch all three next Summer (as they're entitled to) or start with two.
4) The two "known" target cities are SFO and PHL, but the third is rumoured to be either DFW or MIA, both AA hub cities; given that AA will want to take advantage of the ability to increase DUB access, will there be a codeshare on both flights, with AA taking one (say MIA) and EI flying to Dallas.
Looks like this is it! Mr. Cullen has said that he will wait until January for Open Skies to happen (fat chance of that) and then proceed with a bilateral with the US, which - assuming it's along the lines of the special deal agreed in November 2005, should allow EI to add three new US cities and the ratio of DUB:SNN flights to change to 3:1. It will also allow a pretty significant influx in US carriers to DUB. (How DUB is going to handle these ... well, let's just focus on he positive for now!
) Cullen also had some critical words for the SNN lobby, warning them not to take comfort from the delays to Open Skies. He was apparently on RTE radio this morning, denouncing the stopover as archaic!
So, what's next. I'm guessing that EI already has the plans ready to roll - it certainly should have and once the deal is done with the US, the new flights can be launched.
A few questions arise:
1) The airline has already announced its provisional plans for next Summer, based on "Plan B" - i.e. nothing changing. Will these now go ahead and will the new US flights be on top of these?
2) If this is the case, EI will need to get hold of new aircraft for next Summer, since the two new A330s are "spoken for" in Plan B.
3) Will they seek to launch all three next Summer (as they're entitled to) or start with two.
4) The two "known" target cities are SFO and PHL, but the third is rumoured to be either DFW or MIA, both AA hub cities; given that AA will want to take advantage of the ability to increase DUB access, will there be a codeshare on both flights, with AA taking one (say MIA) and EI flying to Dallas.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Akerosid,
Does the current US bilateral specifically prevent scheduled transatlantic services from other Irish airports such as Cork and Knock???
I.E. Can there be a direct Cork-New York service without the Shannon stopover obstacle??
Does the current US bilateral specifically prevent scheduled transatlantic services from other Irish airports such as Cork and Knock???
I.E. Can there be a direct Cork-New York service without the Shannon stopover obstacle??
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I think the current one does, although obviously, if this new deal goes through, that will change. I couldn't see EI 330s flying from ORK to the US, BUT I could definitely see the likes of CO, DL or AA being willing to consider flights to EWR/JFK or BOS. There must be a fair proportion of the Corkonian diaspora which would love the opportunity for a direct flight home.
I certainly hope it happens and it's certainly not impossible; many US carriers have been converting 757s to ETOPS standard for use on flights to Europe.
I certainly hope it happens and it's certainly not impossible; many US carriers have been converting 757s to ETOPS standard for use on flights to Europe.
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CCR
CCR:
My recollection (admittedly I don't have the document in front of me and haven't read it for a while) is that there's some flexibility for Irish (not US) carriers to operate directly from points other than Dublin/Shannon, i.e. the Shannon stopover is only in respect of Dublin frequencies. In other words, Cork (or Knock) to the US would not need to stop in Shannon.
CCR:
My recollection (admittedly I don't have the document in front of me and haven't read it for a while) is that there's some flexibility for Irish (not US) carriers to operate directly from points other than Dublin/Shannon, i.e. the Shannon stopover is only in respect of Dublin frequencies. In other words, Cork (or Knock) to the US would not need to stop in Shannon.
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Snn Stopover
The end of an era for SNN ? I wouldn't hold my breath. They're past masters at running rings around politicians of every persuasion. For 60 years they've bucked the market forces so don't write them off yet.
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My recollection from my last reading of the bilateral about 2 years ago via a link on a pprune posting was that the key phrase as regards any operations from Cork or Knock to the USA included the quote "An aircraft of Ireland" so that indicates an Irish airline is free to conduct flights from Cork and Knock without the inclusion of a snn stop but not so by a U.S. airline.
Anyway, never thought I would lead myself to this point but let Cork get a GLA flight restored before any new focus on N America! Snn has it all too wrapped up, Cork is hardly yet up to the challenge of securing America fligths? Let us have small steps first.
Anyway, never thought I would lead myself to this point but let Cork get a GLA flight restored before any new focus on N America! Snn has it all too wrapped up, Cork is hardly yet up to the challenge of securing America fligths? Let us have small steps first.
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Shannon has daily services from New York, Boston, Chicago and Atlanta.
Cork has a lot of US Multi-national industry and more than double the population of the Shannon region. Its a no brainer that scheduled transatlantic services (not charter) would be a success. So apparently the only impediment under the current bilateral seems to be the requirement for it to be an Irish based airline to do transatlantic services from Cork and no Irish airline has 737-700 or 757 ETOPS aircraft which I think are the only types of aircraft that can use Cork's relatively short runway (7000 feet) to do transatlantic services that are not weight restricted. Until then, the majority of Cork passengers to the US will continue to connect through Dublin or London
Cork has a lot of US Multi-national industry and more than double the population of the Shannon region. Its a no brainer that scheduled transatlantic services (not charter) would be a success. So apparently the only impediment under the current bilateral seems to be the requirement for it to be an Irish based airline to do transatlantic services from Cork and no Irish airline has 737-700 or 757 ETOPS aircraft which I think are the only types of aircraft that can use Cork's relatively short runway (7000 feet) to do transatlantic services that are not weight restricted. Until then, the majority of Cork passengers to the US will continue to connect through Dublin or London
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However, with Ireland hopefully entering into a new bilateral deal with the US in the near future, replacing the current one, surely this idiocy can be corrected?
One concern that arises with regard to the wider O/S issue: how long will Ireland wait; negotiations between Ireland and the US could go on for quite a while, with the result that we could lose our chance. Hopefully some action can be taken which will avoid the significant potential for growth next year being lost?
One concern that arises with regard to the wider O/S issue: how long will Ireland wait; negotiations between Ireland and the US could go on for quite a while, with the result that we could lose our chance. Hopefully some action can be taken which will avoid the significant potential for growth next year being lost?
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Question for akerosid: EI will be making the good money at this time of year! So in the event of a tech aircraft. where do they genearally get a long haul replacment? Also, where could you get short term long haul leasing from and what are the approx rates? Did the MD11 from World a few years ago have EI cabin crew on it?
Does EI have a deal set in place for getting replacement aircraft at short notice?
Worst case senario, Will an A321 cross the pond?
Load of questions there for you!
TA!
Does EI have a deal set in place for getting replacement aircraft at short notice?
Worst case senario, Will an A321 cross the pond?
Load of questions there for you!
TA!
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Good morning Airbourne!
As to where EI gets a spare aircraft at a busy time of the year, I think it's a question of "wherever they can"; I would imagine that they have certain sources that they call and just work down through a list; given the demand for suitable aircraft, there can't be a guaranteed source; no one is going to have a 330, 777 or MD11 just lying around for use on the spur of the moment.
They have used Corsair, North American, Martinair and others in the past, so it's really a question of asking all of these airlines at the time and hope the ageing EI 330 can be repaired asap.
As to lease rates, I really can't say.
The A321 couldn't do the pond; it's not just range, but ETOPS clearance too.
Hope that helps anyway.
As to where EI gets a spare aircraft at a busy time of the year, I think it's a question of "wherever they can"; I would imagine that they have certain sources that they call and just work down through a list; given the demand for suitable aircraft, there can't be a guaranteed source; no one is going to have a 330, 777 or MD11 just lying around for use on the spur of the moment.
They have used Corsair, North American, Martinair and others in the past, so it's really a question of asking all of these airlines at the time and hope the ageing EI 330 can be repaired asap.
As to lease rates, I really can't say.
The A321 couldn't do the pond; it's not just range, but ETOPS clearance too.
Hope that helps anyway.
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New EI A330s ...
Aviation Letter reports that these will be:
EI-DUO Delivery May 07 A330-202
EI-DUZ Delivery June 07 A330-301*
(*I thought it had been decided that this would be a -302?)
EI-DUO Delivery May 07 A330-202
EI-DUZ Delivery June 07 A330-301*
(*I thought it had been decided that this would be a -302?)
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Again from IAL the 2 'extra' A320 that Dermot Mannion mentioned aren't coming until November and December. That probably means there won't be any more new routes for the Summer schedule.
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I was actually talking about Aviation Letter (the small A5 size magazine), as opposed to Irish Air Letter! However, since I've just got the new Irish Air Letter in the post ...
The airline says that it two new A330s "available to be deployed" in 2008, to advantage of any new developments in the Irish-US air services agreement. Hopefully, EI will know more about that next month. However, I recall DM talking about A330s becoming available in 2008 and I'm nearly sure he referred to three?
The airline says that it two new A330s "available to be deployed" in 2008, to advantage of any new developments in the Irish-US air services agreement. Hopefully, EI will know more about that next month. However, I recall DM talking about A330s becoming available in 2008 and I'm nearly sure he referred to three?
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After I asked about the 321, I found out the ETOPS myself anyway! But thanks.
The other thing that Im a bit curious about it the 330s itself. Obiviously the main probs are that most of the older a/c are going tech quite a lot. Why is this? The older models are only 12-13 years old! How long did their 747s fly for? Is there a fundmental problem with the 330? Or is there just a refusal by EI to update the interiors, IFE etc (yes I know weight concerns) We can all sit here and moan about the EI t/a product, but thats us? has anyone up the chain at EI noticed that theres a problem? Have any of the EI execs ever flown, BA, VS, or any of the american carriers? €3k for a premier seat, and no guarantee that the ptv will work or even the seat for that matter.
Incidently, anybody any idea of the amount of recent tech a/c in the a320 family recently?
The other thing that Im a bit curious about it the 330s itself. Obiviously the main probs are that most of the older a/c are going tech quite a lot. Why is this? The older models are only 12-13 years old! How long did their 747s fly for? Is there a fundmental problem with the 330? Or is there just a refusal by EI to update the interiors, IFE etc (yes I know weight concerns) We can all sit here and moan about the EI t/a product, but thats us? has anyone up the chain at EI noticed that theres a problem? Have any of the EI execs ever flown, BA, VS, or any of the american carriers? €3k for a premier seat, and no guarantee that the ptv will work or even the seat for that matter.
Incidently, anybody any idea of the amount of recent tech a/c in the a320 family recently?
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there is no issue re 320 family going tech more....sometimes as with all feets one gets a spate of snags at the one time. 320 fleet is generally very reliable comnsidering the amoumt of hours per 24 hours they are in use.
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[quote=airbourne;3023855]After I asked about the 321, I found out the ETOPS myself anyway! But thanks.
The other thing that Im a bit curious about it the 330s itself. Obiviously the main probs are that most of the older a/c are going tech quite a lot. Why is this? The older models are only 12-13 years old! How long did their 747s fly for? Is there a fundmental problem with the 330? Or is there just a refusal by EI to update the interiors, IFE etc (yes I know weight concerns) We can all sit here and moan about the EI t/a product, but thats us? has anyone up the chain at EI noticed that theres a problem? Have any of the EI execs ever flown, BA, VS, or any of the american carriers? €3k for a premier seat, and no guarantee that the ptv will work or even the seat for that matter.
EI are not refusing to update their A330's! The fact is, they are fighting a major battle with FR on most of their European routes, and just got privatised, and not forgetting the FR proposed take-over! I'm sure EI are working on replacing older A330's, and updating cabins, but where are they going to get replacements????? Newer wide-body aircraft are far and few between! There isnt many 2 year old A330's or 777's lying around!!!
The other thing that Im a bit curious about it the 330s itself. Obiviously the main probs are that most of the older a/c are going tech quite a lot. Why is this? The older models are only 12-13 years old! How long did their 747s fly for? Is there a fundmental problem with the 330? Or is there just a refusal by EI to update the interiors, IFE etc (yes I know weight concerns) We can all sit here and moan about the EI t/a product, but thats us? has anyone up the chain at EI noticed that theres a problem? Have any of the EI execs ever flown, BA, VS, or any of the american carriers? €3k for a premier seat, and no guarantee that the ptv will work or even the seat for that matter.
EI are not refusing to update their A330's! The fact is, they are fighting a major battle with FR on most of their European routes, and just got privatised, and not forgetting the FR proposed take-over! I'm sure EI are working on replacing older A330's, and updating cabins, but where are they going to get replacements????? Newer wide-body aircraft are far and few between! There isnt many 2 year old A330's or 777's lying around!!!
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So, all of the -200s will have PTV/updated IFE installed in Economy Class?
Also, in relation to next Summer, is the airline still hoping to have new routes to the US ready to go, or is it sticking to the current "Plan B"; it seems a terrible waste of what could be a very lucrative season to write it off, just because the regulatory issues aren't sorted out?
I guess it's a question of what aircraft it can get hold of in the short term?
Also, in relation to next Summer, is the airline still hoping to have new routes to the US ready to go, or is it sticking to the current "Plan B"; it seems a terrible waste of what could be a very lucrative season to write it off, just because the regulatory issues aren't sorted out?
I guess it's a question of what aircraft it can get hold of in the short term?
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Yes it wil lbe interesting to see what 'make over' the 330 cabins are given. Probab just a lick of paint and some new carpet! As for PTVs? ha! No chance! Now I know Im just pissing into the wind here, but really what are the chances of EI doing anything right? For years they looked down on FR as being the crap of the industry. They had the chance to open up new routes, get new aircraft etc but no! They stuck with their average product and tried to win on the 'irish' factor! In came FR, and kicked there asses! Now Im no fan of FR, but EI only opened up more routes after FR got there first!
EI should go LGW. Feed into the traffic for VS. Afterall if you bring anything weighing more than a packet of crisps on to a FR flight you get charged through the nose! Imagine all the excess weight charges on package hols to Florida!
EI should go LGW. Feed into the traffic for VS. Afterall if you bring anything weighing more than a packet of crisps on to a FR flight you get charged through the nose! Imagine all the excess weight charges on package hols to Florida!
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It's a whole different ball game now for EI on long haul; if they mess things up next year - particularly as regards benefiting from a new bilateral (assuming Cullen can arm-twist the Commission into letting us have a new deal), investors will be pretty cross. EI is apparently feeling the pressure on short haul, so it's all the more vital to get long haul working properly.
What concerns me is that if there is no go on new t/a flights, what else do they have for next Summer? Sure, they have "Plan B", which is just more flights on existing routes, but what else? If - as is rumoured - SQ and/or TG fly to DUB, what's left in Asia? Sure, HKG, but given the choice between either of these airlines and EI, which would people choose; EI hasn't really invested in Y Class at all. There comes a time when you can't just depend on bargain basement fares. You can't sell all of your seats for buttons; there comes a time when you have to charge higher fares and people will just say, "well, if we have to pay (say), €1500, we'll fly with SQ, TG etc." - and the tragedy is, there's nothing either of these airlines does that EI cannot.
So, basically: let's see what happens on long haul for 2007. If (as I expect and hope), EI can expand, but instead they muck it up and growth is stunted, then it may well be time to start shopping around for new senior management ...
What concerns me is that if there is no go on new t/a flights, what else do they have for next Summer? Sure, they have "Plan B", which is just more flights on existing routes, but what else? If - as is rumoured - SQ and/or TG fly to DUB, what's left in Asia? Sure, HKG, but given the choice between either of these airlines and EI, which would people choose; EI hasn't really invested in Y Class at all. There comes a time when you can't just depend on bargain basement fares. You can't sell all of your seats for buttons; there comes a time when you have to charge higher fares and people will just say, "well, if we have to pay (say), €1500, we'll fly with SQ, TG etc." - and the tragedy is, there's nothing either of these airlines does that EI cannot.
So, basically: let's see what happens on long haul for 2007. If (as I expect and hope), EI can expand, but instead they muck it up and growth is stunted, then it may well be time to start shopping around for new senior management ...