Flybe - 2

[bmibaby.com]

Originally Posted by dustybin

Maybe if it wasn't 17 year old running ops they might get somewere

It seems a long time now, but I started working in this industry at seventeen and don't think the company I worked for suffered as a result, I think I was more professional than some of the old drones who'd been there for years!

[BusterHot]

How very presumtuous. [Actually it's presumptuous] If you are employed at Flybe then please go and see if ther[their?] grass is greener elsewhere. I'd hope you'd be very happy, however please remember that those 17yr olds in Ops would appear to have far more common sense than you! They have consistently delivered the best punctuality seen at Flybe since 2001. It is a shame not all can demonstrate their professional attitude.

How very sanctimonious!! Do the 17yr olds in ops deliver the "punctuality" or the crews that operate the flights? I haven't seen too many 17yr olds on the GCI/JSY routes with the 15 and 20 min turnarounds. Yes they do their bit, and a very difficult job it is too, but making these stupid schedules work is mostly down to the crews that operate them and their good will to cut a few corners where necessary. We're all in this sh%& together; lets not start firing rockets at the wrong people.

[NickBarnes]

seems here there are alot of people here who don't like Flybe but i can very much believe they have a 200m price tag. Flybe is a very nice airline to fly on and i have never had a long delay with them. at least they dont have sick on there seats which i found when i flew on another carrier not to be named.

[HORNYORYX]

£200 Million

Blimmey, with Bombardier's legendary unreliabilility and lauch customer for a new jungle jet, maybe we talking about using Monoply money!

[JobsaGoodun]

How very sanctimonious!! Do the 17yr olds in ops deliver the "punctuality" or the crews that operate the flights? I haven't seen too many 17yr olds on the GCI/JSY routes with the 15 and 20 min turnarounds. Yes they do their bit, and a very difficult job it is too, but making these stupid schedules work is mostly down to the crews that operate them and their good will to cut a few corners where necessary. We're all in this sh%& together; lets not start firing rockets at the wrong people

Buster, I'm not wishing to enter into an argument over the issue. All I simply wish to do is point out what was a direct dig at an Ops department that actually do a very good job! Yes, crews do their bit but without an adequate Ops departments not all the passengers would be moved when disruption occurs. Each needs the other to be effective. Those 'stupid schedules' are precisely what gives Flybe its much increased price tag and without them the company could not acheive profitability or the sale price predicted. It's that simple.

I am all for joining forces, it is the only way to ensure that the business continues to do well, but the first rocket wasn't fired by me. I'll always speak up for a group of people who have come under unecessary attack from an apparently disgruntled member of crew!

[VIRGA]

Just remember that no airline will run without pilots. No larger airline will run without cabin crew. Most airlines will still beable to run without ops. Albeit for a limited time but the most essential ingredient is somebody to fly the damn thing around the sky. So I believe alot more respect is required from the Flybe ops, crewing, and managerial depts for the people that are actually enforcing the silly timetables, turn arounds etc etc.... All this on the rubbish pay the Flybe pilots and cabin crew get. Why don't some of the managers for go there pay rises for a change and declare that they have done so to the employees.

[JobsaGoodun]

Just remember that no airline will run without pilots. No larger airline will run without cabin crew. Most airlines will still beable to run without ops

Please, you don't seriously believe this do you! Where will the flight crew get their flightplans from? Where will the plogs come from that the flight crew require in order to operate. I am not 'bigging' up and airlines Ops departments but lets face it, equally neither can work effectively without the other.

Why don't some of the managers for go there pay rises for a change and declare that they have done so to the employees.

Can you give an indication as to why a Flybe manager on say £30k should for go their salary increase at the expense of a Captain on £55k? I'd like to know the rationale?

[AlphaCharlie]

Hmmm maybe the rationale there has something to do with Flybe not being able to find anywhere near enough direct entry captains to recruit to crew its planned operation, and if the current murmurings are true there is going to be yet another out pouring of pilots this winter period! Ops and Crewing do a sterling job, with no disruption in their lifestyle and have a very nice fixed shift pattern, the manager have an excellent fixed work pattern, and the flight crews have no stability any day of the year. You can find new managers, you can train new ops and crewing people relatively quickly, but finding an experienced direct entry captain to fly a turboprop, based in the regions, on a poor salary, with no lifetstyle benefits or stability is hard. Oh only the jet captains are on mid 50k, the prop ones are on mid 40k!

What exactly are flybe offering that will make an experienced f/o want to stay with the company after their 3 year bond is up and become a dash captain? There is not one single reason why the pilots need to accept that pathetic 2.4% pay offer, we have nothing to lose, whereas the company have a huge chunk of its already stressed, demoralised pilot workforce on the verge of walking out the door.

[Hussar 54]

Picked up a magazine in the AF lounge at CDG a couple of weeks ago - not too sure, but think it's called ' Voyage ' and is an industry mag....

Anyway, there was an article about the new Terminal at Marseilles which will be dedicated to lo-co's.

Article went on to say that Flybe are a probable customer as they are currently planning to introduce a domestic network in France shortly.

I've heard this a few times before, but just wondering if this is a re-hash of similar plans a couple of years ago following the break with AF and which came to nothing or an entirely new project ?

Anyone in Flybe allowed to or care to provide any more info ?

[surely not]

AlphaCharlie you are not serious!!! When the fog descends on any part of the network the ops staff have to sort out the ongoing programme for that day and probably into the next day if the fog stays around. They cannot just pack up and go home because the flight is cancelled, they have to sort the mess out and at the same time run the rest of the network. The same with an AOG that cannot be fixed quickly. Sure there are night shifts but these are not generally as fully manned as day shifts in Ops Depts, so the Ops staff stay on and work overtime until the work is done. They are not proected by duty periods and are often back on earlies next morning no matter what time they left work.

You would do well to spend some time with an airline ops dept as your knowledge of how they work is either faded by the passing of time or never existed in the first place.

[GBALU53]

Delivery EMB195

With the imminent delivery of the first aircraft does any one know the delivery date??

I understand the first crews are trained up on the aircraft as far as simulator training and just need to finish off the last bit on the aircraft.

With a new type for the company will the CAA require some route proving sectors and if so any ideas on which ones they may require??

One rumour heard was it will be comming down to the Channel Islands sometime within the next month or so, if this is correct i would have at a guess it might be to Jersey with the Walker family living on the Island .

[devon_guy]

Does anyone know what happened to the JER-EXT evening flight 22/8. I'm guessing it went tech for some reason....

[OltonPete]

E195

Other than the BHX sun routes from 28/29 October a well known reservations system still shows the 195 on the following routes
(mentioned before I believe): -

25/9-29/9/06

BE816/9 BHX-GLA-BHX 0710 from BHX & Arr back at BHX 1015
BE824/5 BHX-GLA-BHX 1100 from BHX & Arr back at BHX 1355 Tu We Th*
BE292/5 BHX-EDI-BHX 1845 from BHX & Arr back at BHX 2155

* ops to Belfast City on a Monday & Friday 11.00 out & 1335 back.

I thought this thread might be full of rumour and counter rumour
or speculation of the actual date that the first aircraft will arrive?

I am not a spotter but is this not one of the most eagerly awaited
deliveries in the UK for a long time ?

Off to get a life!

Pete

[flyingbug]

Originally Posted by AlphaCharlie

Hmmm maybe the rationale there has something to do with Flybe not being able to find anywhere near enough direct entry captains to recruit to crew its planned operation, and if the current murmurings are true there is going to be yet another out pouring of pilots this winter period! Ops and Crewing do a sterling job, with no disruption in their lifestyle and have a very nice fixed shift pattern, the manager have an excellent fixed work pattern, and the flight crews have no stability any day of the year. What exactly are flybe offering that will make an experienced f/o want to stay with the company after their 3 year bond is up and become a dash captain? ...the company have a huge chunk of its already stressed, demoralised pilot workforce on the verge of walking out the door.

AlphaCharlie, I think you are serious, and absolutely correct. Those that think this argument is flawed...do not be surprised over the next month, pilots will be voting with their feet. T&Cs have been eroded through poor planning and the constant desire to work crews to the max of FTL (not a problem to those in ops or management)

[AlphaCharlie]

Surely not ... so whilst you are working late to get aircraft flying again after a bad day across the network, who is it exactly that you are getting to fly these aircraft for you? Yes that's right, the crews who have been on duty for hours and are now approaching their max for that day, or the standby crews that you now have to call out to do some ridiculous duty, night stop, position home and then operate 4 sectors as planned the following day with min rest inbetween. I'm sure the overtime is not done out of the kindness of your heart, and is prob better than the £1.77 per hour we get when nightstopping unexpectedly. Oh and you at the end of your working block (which - and I am being genuine here - I have no doubt is stressful, tiring and difficult, it can't be a pleasant job calling capt x at 5am to get him to come to work) get 4 days off I believe, where as we can work 6 days and only receive 56 hours off for our spoils - reduced to 54 hours if there has been disruption.

I understand its not op's fault, and I completely agree that the company need to invest more in its crews as well as a more complete compliment of ops/crewing staff in order to run the programme more effectively.

[GBALU53]

Devon guy

The Exeter flight from Jersey yesterday i am understand operatated using the night stom Southampton Dash that gets into Jersey around 2015 last night.

The Exeter Dash went tech in Guernsey but did come into Jersey at some stage last night and i think the aircraft was fixed but delayed the first Jersey-Southampton buy and hour or so this morning.

To cap this the Jesey based 146 went tech again two days ago the aircraft was damaged by a baggage truck and they had to find a replacement and kept the airport open very late that night.

What the tech problem in do not know at the moment but with all the problem in the Channel Islands at the moment how much can the compant take in view of the floating on the stock market

Will the EMB195 have all the problem that the company is going through.??

[surely not]

Alpha Charlie they are probably contacting the crews who have operated normally that day and had their full rest. Just because one or two flights is affected doesn't mean that ALL crews are run ragged. I do not work for FlyBe but they are not a small outfit and it is likely that they will have crew who weren't involved in the original hiatus.

I wasn't suggesting that the crews do not get messed around, I was taking issue with the idea that they alone have an unsettled life because of disruption.

Punctuality is very much a part of Ops job. The pilots fly the scheds given out by Ops. When there is disruption it is Ops, not the individual pilots, who shuffle the pack to reduce the delays over the whole network and instigate a/c changes. Then the pilots fly the new scheds and do their best to operate to time.......so it is a team effort, not down to one area only.

Age does not define maturity. I know some young pilots and Ops staff who are way more mature than some of their older colleagues who seem to be missing their prams!!

[NickBarnes]

Not sure if this is about NWI base but from i understand from a person you works there all the crew and pilots are very happy at NWI and i can't understand people talking about silly timetables i mean the hardly that bad i mean they sometimes have 30 mins to turn the aircraft around suchas between the DUB and MAN service

obviously all these problems must be at the other bases

[cessna l plate]

I am not wanting to get into the ops vs pilots debate here. I work as neither.

But to the ops staff...
Yes you do a very valuable job, and I am no way undermining what you all do day to day. But has it not occured to you that a pilot might just be a little more qualified than you to fill in a flight plan, or generate a plog.

As a ppl student I have to do this for myself all the time. The only difference is that my plog is worked out at 100kts, not 200+. Principle is still the same.

To answer the statement, yes, pilots can operate, and very well without an ops department, but an airline wont go very far without a pilot.

[Unionjet28]

flybe

it shows, cessna, that you dont work as either pilot or ops. Do you work for an airline? If not I would proffer that perhaps you are not well enough qualified to speak on the matter. If you honestly think all ops do is file flightplans, then a bit of airline experience may well not go a miss.....

Of course an airline wont survive without drivers, but I can assure you, it wont get much past the first day without an ops/crewing department!