Virgin
Join Date: Nov 2001
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As a poor meek bear, what is wrong with the A340-600 and are these reasons linked to Emirates having issues with the HGW version not making manufacturers 'spec'?
I take it that if the product does not match the marketing hype, then the manufacturer is going to have to subsidise it BIG TIME?
Talk of a re-design of the A350 also required?
Boeing media hype, or reality?
I take it that if the product does not match the marketing hype, then the manufacturer is going to have to subsidise it BIG TIME?
Talk of a re-design of the A350 also required?
Boeing media hype, or reality?
Join Date: May 2002
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Buster,
The A340-600 is a very good aircraft, however it is competing against the 777-300ER which is one of the best aircraft ever built. It (the 777...) has exceeded its initial performance specifications very early on in its life.
It has a 7% stated fuel burn advantage over the A340-600 and Boeing are sure they can squeeze an extra 3-4% out of it over the next 3 to 4 years.
A big part of the pro Boeing argument is that the A340 is burning more fuel due to having 4 engines, at a time when fuel costs are getting more expensive. So the savings of having a Airbus type "feet wide commonality" with the earlier A340-300s could be stripped away if oil prices go high enough.
John Leahy, the cheif salesman at Airbus is talking about "cashback" incentives to shift them / make up the difference.
Few articles below from Flight Global to digest:
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2002/11/19/158049/Late+deliveries+hamper+Virgin's+A340-600+plan.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...s+learned.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...ong+hello.html
The same argument exists between the A380-800 and the 747-800i. But remember that the A380 is presently in its shortest length, hence least efficient form (shortened variants are never that great compared to stretches as weight / passenger ratio is high) and the 747-800i is at its greatest stretch. When the A380-800R with better engines, and the stretched A380-900 are launched, it will be a better aircraft.
The A340-600 is a very good aircraft, however it is competing against the 777-300ER which is one of the best aircraft ever built. It (the 777...) has exceeded its initial performance specifications very early on in its life.
It has a 7% stated fuel burn advantage over the A340-600 and Boeing are sure they can squeeze an extra 3-4% out of it over the next 3 to 4 years.
A big part of the pro Boeing argument is that the A340 is burning more fuel due to having 4 engines, at a time when fuel costs are getting more expensive. So the savings of having a Airbus type "feet wide commonality" with the earlier A340-300s could be stripped away if oil prices go high enough.
John Leahy, the cheif salesman at Airbus is talking about "cashback" incentives to shift them / make up the difference.
Few articles below from Flight Global to digest:
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2002/11/19/158049/Late+deliveries+hamper+Virgin's+A340-600+plan.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...s+learned.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...ong+hello.html
The same argument exists between the A380-800 and the 747-800i. But remember that the A380 is presently in its shortest length, hence least efficient form (shortened variants are never that great compared to stretches as weight / passenger ratio is high) and the 747-800i is at its greatest stretch. When the A380-800R with better engines, and the stretched A380-900 are launched, it will be a better aircraft.
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I was going to the same thing 2dmoon, VS are big on the logo "4Engines4LongHaul", so I guess there would need to be a couple paint jobs undertaken!
Heard that Thai (I think) were unhappy with their 346's, and it was the RR powerplant (Trent 500?) that was causing the issue, undoubtedly someone will correct / expand on that...
GDI
Heard that Thai (I think) were unhappy with their 346's, and it was the RR powerplant (Trent 500?) that was causing the issue, undoubtedly someone will correct / expand on that...
GDI
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The fuel burn is a major issue in the A346 vs 773ER, as is OTP. The T500's fuel burn is gradually getting worse. As an indication why are CX sending their A346's back to ILFC at the end of their lease to be replaced by, you guessed it B773ER!!! By the way no VS guys have been trained on the B777, they have been trained on the A330 though!!!!!!!!!
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The '4 engines 4 longhaul' slogan is an Airbus TM, and is not (and never has been) carried by Virgin's Boeings. Some Boeings have carried the slogan 'Better x 4', but that's the closest they got. All Virgin's (and any other airline's) A340 crews are qualified to fly the A330, and have CCQ rights to both the A380 and A350, so there are no surprises there. However, the A330/350 is a much smaller aircraft than the A340-600, and could not replace it in any meaningful way - exactly as there could never be a decision to 'replace' the A380 with the B777; the two aircraft serve different needs.
Virgin have about 15 of the plenned 26 A346s in service, and there are no plans to ditch the aircraft. The B777 is being considered solely as a B747 replacement, and that only for those areas where the A380 (and A346) are not practicable. For that reason, the likely variant is the B777-200, as the -300 has similar ground manoeuvrability problems to the A346.
It may be that there is a developing requirement to replace the A343 more exactly for 'long/thin' routes, and here the B777-200 also fits well, but then so does the A330/350.
Virgin, like most large airlines, are continuously in discussion with the two major airliner manufacturers. It is already a customer of both, and thus has a need for an ongoing support dialogue with both. It also has several orders and options with Airbus, and so will be working with that manufacturer to improve the service its products give. It also must look to the mid-term future for the replacement of current aircraft, particularly the aging (half of the) B744 fleet, and it will be playing the two manufacturers off against each other to get the best deal.
As for OTP, this is a problem for Virgin as a whole, and can't be laid at the door of any particular aircraft type.
Virgin have about 15 of the plenned 26 A346s in service, and there are no plans to ditch the aircraft. The B777 is being considered solely as a B747 replacement, and that only for those areas where the A380 (and A346) are not practicable. For that reason, the likely variant is the B777-200, as the -300 has similar ground manoeuvrability problems to the A346.
It may be that there is a developing requirement to replace the A343 more exactly for 'long/thin' routes, and here the B777-200 also fits well, but then so does the A330/350.
Virgin, like most large airlines, are continuously in discussion with the two major airliner manufacturers. It is already a customer of both, and thus has a need for an ongoing support dialogue with both. It also has several orders and options with Airbus, and so will be working with that manufacturer to improve the service its products give. It also must look to the mid-term future for the replacement of current aircraft, particularly the aging (half of the) B744 fleet, and it will be playing the two manufacturers off against each other to get the best deal.
As for OTP, this is a problem for Virgin as a whole, and can't be laid at the door of any particular aircraft type.
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Nope! I am not with Astraeus any more but I don't know how to change my name on here.
That, I heard from someone that is putting the finishing touches to the Virgin 380 manuals!
Regards
Mike
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So that'll be from the horse's mouth, then? 
I'm sorry, but someone putting together part of the Virgin A380 manuals is hardly a very authoritative source. Some of the people spouting rumours about the VS A380 order are quite senior in the company (by that I mean at fleet management level), yet even they actually have no information on the subject and are merely adding to the speculation. 'I heard from a mate that...' is the standard opening line for most of these rumours, which instantly renders them worthless. Gossip hates a vacuum, so the long hiatus between orders and the first delivery of the A380 (likely to be November 2008, according to Airbus) is a breeding ground for rumour and counter-rumour.
It's fun to speculate, but there is no evidence of any change to the status of Virgin's A380 orders and options at the moment. Lyle Strambi and the Commercial Department are maintaining that things are on track for the (now twice-delayed) scheduled introduction of the aircraft. There is no objective reason to disbelieve them.
I'm sorry, but someone putting together part of the Virgin A380 manuals is hardly a very authoritative source. Some of the people spouting rumours about the VS A380 order are quite senior in the company (by that I mean at fleet management level), yet even they actually have no information on the subject and are merely adding to the speculation. 'I heard from a mate that...' is the standard opening line for most of these rumours, which instantly renders them worthless. Gossip hates a vacuum, so the long hiatus between orders and the first delivery of the A380 (likely to be November 2008, according to Airbus) is a breeding ground for rumour and counter-rumour.
It's fun to speculate, but there is no evidence of any change to the status of Virgin's A380 orders and options at the moment. Lyle Strambi and the Commercial Department are maintaining that things are on track for the (now twice-delayed) scheduled introduction of the aircraft. There is no objective reason to disbelieve them.
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If you read my post correctly, you would see that I said VS are SEEKING to defer deliveries.
The guy I am on about is the head of SEP at Virgin, and he has never lied to me yet, so as far as I'm concerned, i'll take what he says.
You don't have to agree, and that's just dandy by me
Regards
Mike
The guy I am on about is the head of SEP at Virgin, and he has never lied to me yet, so as far as I'm concerned, i'll take what he says.
You don't have to agree, and that's just dandy by me
Regards
Mike
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why are CX sending their A346's back to ILFC at the end of their lease
The 3 we have are weigh over weight from the original specs given by Airbus, which is why they struggled to get to New York. They have been redeployed to Sydney and London for their respective summer schedules and still go to JFK.
AFAIK they are going to stay on the LHR route through the winter now and not just the summer, that's the latest 3 month plan anyway.
I noticed the 4 eng..... was gone on a 744 today and the immediate thought was, perhaps the 777 rumours are true.
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How come everyone's noticing that 'four engines etc' are missing off the aircraft? Did they all have it displayed in the first place? Is there an large red patch or some speed tape? Are we all spotters now?
Ashtray lad; Does it have a toilet for the Flight Deck and what's the crew rest like?
Ashtray lad; Does it have a toilet for the Flight Deck and what's the crew rest like?
Rebel PPRuNer
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here's a thought - maybe Airbus want 4forLH gone given the longer range that the 350 family will bring (according to the spec anyway )
)