HUMBERSIDE - 2
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Humberside
Have been following this type of thread for more years than I care to mention with regard to HUY and maximising its potential (or lack of!).
Over the years the type of thread explores the potential of HUY to attract more services, both scheduled and charter and while recent annouces have cast a dark cloud of this growth it always surprises me that airlines can attract enough people to generate and sustain the routes. As has previously been posted (how many times!) the catchment area of HUY is actually quite small and while the airport offers great personal service, with fast checking in times compared to bigger airports they just dont seem to be able to attract an operator who is prepared to work at routes, generate traffic and hopefully post a profit.
We are (well most are) aware of T3 (both original and latest incarnation) being based at the airport and yet flies one route (Aberdeen), in its original guise the airline operated more routes from HUY, even a route to Esbjerg (and that was its most profitable route until their demise in 1984) was operated.
So surely if their was money to be made from scheduled routes than the airports own "in-house" airline would be jumping to take over the Dublin flights and try other european routes.
well thats my view on the matter and while I profess to be no expert I would like to hear other peoples views and opinions, good or bad.
Circseam (not checked for spelling)
Over the years the type of thread explores the potential of HUY to attract more services, both scheduled and charter and while recent annouces have cast a dark cloud of this growth it always surprises me that airlines can attract enough people to generate and sustain the routes. As has previously been posted (how many times!) the catchment area of HUY is actually quite small and while the airport offers great personal service, with fast checking in times compared to bigger airports they just dont seem to be able to attract an operator who is prepared to work at routes, generate traffic and hopefully post a profit.
We are (well most are) aware of T3 (both original and latest incarnation) being based at the airport and yet flies one route (Aberdeen), in its original guise the airline operated more routes from HUY, even a route to Esbjerg (and that was its most profitable route until their demise in 1984) was operated.
So surely if their was money to be made from scheduled routes than the airports own "in-house" airline would be jumping to take over the Dublin flights and try other european routes.
well thats my view on the matter and while I profess to be no expert I would like to hear other peoples views and opinions, good or bad.
Circseam (not checked for spelling)
Join Date: Dec 2004
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For DUB maybe Aer Arann would be a good option 
I say no. Eastern are a business orientated airline and Dublin is principally a leisure route. I think Eastern operating HUY-DUB would be like them operating STN-Bergerac or SOU-Brest, which if they happenned would be a complete flop
I say no. Eastern are a business orientated airline and Dublin is principally a leisure route. I think Eastern operating HUY-DUB would be like them operating STN-Bergerac or SOU-Brest, which if they happenned would be a complete flop
Thread Starter
Circseam over time it is becoming apparent that something is stopping airlines coming in. While the catchments size is similar in comparison to say NWI and EXT (some time ago HUY was ahead of both) the main problem is demographics. The average on the DUB flight was 89 pax, id say not bad at all if it was BE that would be a full flight would it not?
XL could have been a huge step for HUY, it is very hard to predict (being an enthusiast and not an expert) where HUY will go now. Will they build up their charters? Maybe try a lo-co? I believe they have met with LS a few times over services, the management often seem concerned when lo-co's are mentioned. Maybe they dont believe it would work? Or maybe they just cant invest to accomodate them and wish to ramble along at their own pace.
As we know, rumours of RE are rife, its sad looking at the routes XL were offering next year now though. SSH, CFU etc.
Has AGP been taken over yet? I believe more will become cear about S07 in the coming months.
XL could have been a huge step for HUY, it is very hard to predict (being an enthusiast and not an expert) where HUY will go now. Will they build up their charters? Maybe try a lo-co? I believe they have met with LS a few times over services, the management often seem concerned when lo-co's are mentioned. Maybe they dont believe it would work? Or maybe they just cant invest to accomodate them and wish to ramble along at their own pace.
As we know, rumours of RE are rife, its sad looking at the routes XL were offering next year now though. SSH, CFU etc.
Has AGP been taken over yet? I believe more will become cear about S07 in the coming months.
Bear Behind
Yes, it would be a more or less full flight. But what was the price offered in order to stimulate those 90 pax?
BE can't operate with those sort of prices because their cost base is not the same as Ryanair's. It's the same thing as arguing that it would fill 3 of Eastern's J31s.
Next point - all of the HUY traffic, bar very little, is outbound - i.e. originating in the Humber area. How do you attract inbound traffic? Bring people in from Spain and France to see the sights (or should that be sites) in Grimsby or Cleethorpes? Not really world class destinations, are they?
It's hard to see where HUY can attract new business from. A 30 seater into Germany, perhaps, to connect into the Lufthansa network and give KLM/Air France a run for their money? FRA? MUC?
The aircraft operated by the 'true' lo-cos are just too big.
Tough one.
BE can't operate with those sort of prices because their cost base is not the same as Ryanair's. It's the same thing as arguing that it would fill 3 of Eastern's J31s.
Next point - all of the HUY traffic, bar very little, is outbound - i.e. originating in the Humber area. How do you attract inbound traffic? Bring people in from Spain and France to see the sights (or should that be sites) in Grimsby or Cleethorpes? Not really world class destinations, are they?
It's hard to see where HUY can attract new business from. A 30 seater into Germany, perhaps, to connect into the Lufthansa network and give KLM/Air France a run for their money? FRA? MUC?
The aircraft operated by the 'true' lo-cos are just too big.
Tough one.
Thread Starter
Next point - all of the HUY traffic, bar very little, is outbound - i.e. originating in the Humber area. How do you attract inbound traffic? Bring people in from Spain and France to see the sights (or should that be sites) in Grimsby or Cleethorpes? Not really world class destinations, are they?
Yes, it would be a more or less full flight. But what was the price offered in order to stimulate those 90 pax?
Bear Behind
Pug, 50 - 60 on a 100 seater E-195, no they wouldn't be happy. Filling a Dash-8? Maybe. But look at BE's fares and look at Ryan's. Not the same ballpark.
Most of the other lo-co hubs have some sort of business type market of some sort. The unis won't really be keeping these guys in business during the week in term time or during the academic holidays, will they?
I WANT HUY to succeed. I'm desperate for it. I do use them. But not enough other peole do and it's hard to see where new trade is going to come from.
Most of the other lo-co hubs have some sort of business type market of some sort. The unis won't really be keeping these guys in business during the week in term time or during the academic holidays, will they?
I WANT HUY to succeed. I'm desperate for it. I do use them. But not enough other peole do and it's hard to see where new trade is going to come from.
Thread Starter
Yes, dash 8 was what i meant, yes the fares are higher than FR, i am confident people would use it however.
There must be some business links in the region to keep KLM expanding, whether they do so well because they have been here for nearly 30 years and become established i dont know. They were talking about an AF service to compliment the KL, due to the popularity but dont want to step on KL's toes so decided against.
Obviously i dont know for sure im just being objective, i just dont think things can be ruled out until properly tried. FR was a disapointment but didnt come to so much surprise, XL could be devastating, we will only realy find out before summer if any flights are to be replaced.
I dont think there is much question of sun routes working with a lo-co however the scope for any real expansion is minimal which could be reason no airline has actualy invested.
There must be some business links in the region to keep KLM expanding, whether they do so well because they have been here for nearly 30 years and become established i dont know. They were talking about an AF service to compliment the KL, due to the popularity but dont want to step on KL's toes so decided against.
Obviously i dont know for sure im just being objective, i just dont think things can be ruled out until properly tried. FR was a disapointment but didnt come to so much surprise, XL could be devastating, we will only realy find out before summer if any flights are to be replaced.
I dont think there is much question of sun routes working with a lo-co however the scope for any real expansion is minimal which could be reason no airline has actualy invested.
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the management often seem concerned when lo-co's are mentioned.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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HUY's AMS service has seen a varied capacity trend over the last few years. The most noticable was when it went from 4 F50s a day to 3 F100s, it then went to 6 F50s a day, and eventually to a mix of F70/F50 where it currently lies. As of the winter schedule, there will be 4 daily flights with the early p.m just MON-FRI. As of next summer, this new service will also run at weekends, making 4 flights each day of the week, 3 with the F70 and one with the F50. Although the best schedule was by far the 6 daily, no jets were involved. I wiew the provisional S07 schedule as the best since the start of the service all those years ago.
Regards
Mike
Regards
Mike
Thread Starter
Keep KLM expanding? Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they actually have rather LESS capacity between HUY and AMS than they used to a few years ago?
Perhaps it could be the fear that LS or BE (who seem to be mentioned quite often as potential future operators at HUY) would want, amongst others, to start services on the one scheduled route proven as successful - AMS - and end up scaring away the sacred cow (KL). Whatever happens, the people running HUY will not want to do anything to make KL consider moving away. Even in the lean times the UK/KL AMS service has remained and provides a vital link to the rest of the world.
The airport has mentioned in its draft masterplan about lo-co's, it does raise their concernes of over capacity on routes which could have detrimental effects on both airlines concerned if a low cost operation started, particularly on the sun routes where the charter carriers are encountering problems.
Last edited by pug; 5th Oct 2006 at 19:21.
But they haven't "kept expanding", have they? Aeulad is spot on; capacity has actually fluctuated rather than grown in recent years. At one point HUY had six AMS rotations with capacity of about 600 seats. At present, there are half as many flights and about two thirds the capacity. Even next summer, tentatively, there'll still be less flights and less capacity between HUY and AMS than there used to be. I agree with Aeulad that you could make a case for saying next summers provisional schedule is the best that's been offered for a long time, but it's not the continual growth that you claim.
Last edited by Andy_S; 6th Oct 2006 at 09:30. Reason: Correcting capacity figure
Thread Starter
Ok maybe keep was the wrong word, they are expanding however and showing their comitment to the airport, that cant be denied. It works out to be roughly 520 seats per day assuming 3x f70 and one f50 rotations. I believe most of the pax on this service have O/D in the Humber region, there is sufficient capacity for the feeder traffic at HUY with KLM, i dont think another feeder operation would be required now.
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Excel have pulled out due to the amount of diversions they have had to do throughout the summer period. Yes they did ask the airport for a CAT III ILS, but this was never going happen. The other cause of diversions has been lack of Fire Cover during the early mornings.A/C arrive over head the airfield at 0400 only to discover the Fire Section are not fully manned until 0500. The airport does no help itself and deserves to loose business.
The airport has a long history of attrating new airlines over the last 12 years only to find 6 months later when the FREE landing fees come to an end they pull out. HUY is now facing its quietest winter for charters for 10 years.
How long will Manchester hold onto HUY? It was only bought to try and block the development of DSA after MANCHESTER were turned down from buying it.
The airport has a long history of attrating new airlines over the last 12 years only to find 6 months later when the FREE landing fees come to an end they pull out. HUY is now facing its quietest winter for charters for 10 years.
How long will Manchester hold onto HUY? It was only bought to try and block the development of DSA after MANCHESTER were turned down from buying it.
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Hi guys,
After reading previous posts regarding new scheduled services to and from HUY, I still am of the opinion that BE and alike are just not going to give any route from HUY the time and effort required to build up a route, as we have seen over the years, operators have been attracted to HUY but are not prepared to work at the routes and my feeling is the only airline with the knowledge of the local market has to be T3.
I am aware that T3 are a regional airline catering mainly for the premium traffic and at premium prices, fair play to T3, that is their niche, that is their business plan but as we have seen before T3 take over routes dropped by incumbent operators and I personally think the Huy - Dub route could be ripe for the taking.
Ok, the pricing of the route must be attractive to the same market previously utilising the route and low cost pricing is just not T3, is it? However, as we have seen with Ryanair, the route is no doubt sustainable with the lower operating costs of a turboprop and with less seating than Ryanair was offering but the pricing has to generate the traffic.
C'mon T3
After reading previous posts regarding new scheduled services to and from HUY, I still am of the opinion that BE and alike are just not going to give any route from HUY the time and effort required to build up a route, as we have seen over the years, operators have been attracted to HUY but are not prepared to work at the routes and my feeling is the only airline with the knowledge of the local market has to be T3.
I am aware that T3 are a regional airline catering mainly for the premium traffic and at premium prices, fair play to T3, that is their niche, that is their business plan but as we have seen before T3 take over routes dropped by incumbent operators and I personally think the Huy - Dub route could be ripe for the taking.
Ok, the pricing of the route must be attractive to the same market previously utilising the route and low cost pricing is just not T3, is it? However, as we have seen with Ryanair, the route is no doubt sustainable with the lower operating costs of a turboprop and with less seating than Ryanair was offering but the pricing has to generate the traffic.
C'mon T3
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I agree
and disagree
with parts of what you say. The DUB route is most definitely sustainable albeit with a smaller a/c and, as you say, a turboprop rather then a jet.
However, I don't see T3 as the ideal airline to operate this route as their prices, again as you say, are aimed at the premium passenger which I wouldn't believe makes up a very large proportion of the market for travel between HUY and DUB.
I still think Aer Arann would be the optimum airline to fly this route with maybe an ATR 42/72 as their prices would rest somewhere between RYR's and T3's and would cater for both a premium and leisure passenger.
and disagree with parts of what you say. The DUB route is most definitely sustainable albeit with a smaller a/c and, as you say, a turboprop rather then a jet. However, I don't see T3 as the ideal airline to operate this route as their prices, again as you say, are aimed at the premium passenger which I wouldn't believe makes up a very large proportion of the market for travel between HUY and DUB.
I still think Aer Arann would be the optimum airline to fly this route with maybe an ATR 42/72 as their prices would rest somewhere between RYR's and T3's and would cater for both a premium and leisure passenger.
Thread Starter
T3 would work on routes with particular business interest, ABZ being the one at HUY. CPH and Espjerg worked in the past and could be potential routes in the future but it is doubtful T3 would be interested. BRU worked well with a twice daily J31 (the route was to go thrice daily) but the route was pulled just before and Sabena, the code share partner of Euro direct belgie? had no suitable a/c for the route. Same as CDG after Gills demise.
Although FR have not been able to keep the DUB at HUY, it has proved that, while DSA operated a DUB route, HUY did pull in around 5000 pax every month (nearly 6000 in August) without affecting the numbers at DSA, this surely proves there is demand in a smaller capacity machine. Saying again RE is rumoured to take the route on, despite having higher ticket prices they could get it right with the size of a/c they operate.
Is it true the airport are looking at another 'global gateway' to compliment the AMS services?
Although FR have not been able to keep the DUB at HUY, it has proved that, while DSA operated a DUB route, HUY did pull in around 5000 pax every month (nearly 6000 in August) without affecting the numbers at DSA, this surely proves there is demand in a smaller capacity machine. Saying again RE is rumoured to take the route on, despite having higher ticket prices they could get it right with the size of a/c they operate.
Is it true the airport are looking at another 'global gateway' to compliment the AMS services?