UKIA
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UKIA Charters
Hold up people! Considering UKIA were ACMI leasing the aircraft to other carriers for charter flights what happened to the funds from these flights?
UKIA are still to refund a single airline ticket that was sold by Agents and has there been any news on the new investors or Aircraft repossessions?
UKIA are still to refund a single airline ticket that was sold by Agents and has there been any news on the new investors or Aircraft repossessions?
Cool Mod
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You might well ask!
You should also re-visit PPRuNe Towers' post above.
I have said before, a few times, that UKIA is a phoenix that ain't gonna rise from any ashes, including its own. It would need many millions of pounds, and demonstrate a clear debt sheet before any fool would invest in it again. I have the experience to know that that ain't gonna happen.
In the meantime this thread continues to run in ever decreasing circles trying to catch up with the oozlam bird!
Time to get real people's.
Dave's "bank currapcy" says it ALL.
You should also re-visit PPRuNe Towers' post above.
I have said before, a few times, that UKIA is a phoenix that ain't gonna rise from any ashes, including its own. It would need many millions of pounds, and demonstrate a clear debt sheet before any fool would invest in it again. I have the experience to know that that ain't gonna happen.
In the meantime this thread continues to run in ever decreasing circles trying to catch up with the oozlam bird!
Time to get real people's.
Dave's "bank currapcy" says it ALL.
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Yep, PPrune Pop has hit it on the veritable head.
It was doomed to failure from the start and the chance of a resurrection is about the same as Arsenal winning the Premiership.
The owner was told a long time go that he was living in "cloud cuckoo land" but resolutely refused to acknowledge it and continued to bullsh1t his way to disaster.
It was doomed to failure from the start and the chance of a resurrection is about the same as Arsenal winning the Premiership.
The owner was told a long time go that he was living in "cloud cuckoo land" but resolutely refused to acknowledge it and continued to bullsh1t his way to disaster.
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
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Real Slim...
Yes, but - surely the CAA would have told him in no uncertain terms that he was living in CCL. That is their job!
If it were "doomed to failure" right from the start - how did they get an operating licence?
Either the CAA were caught napping here (very unlikely), or he gave them completely fanciful numbers and they didn't check properly (again, unlikely the CAA wouldn't) or someone has been very naughty....
Wonder which?
Yes, but - surely the CAA would have told him in no uncertain terms that he was living in CCL. That is their job!
If it were "doomed to failure" right from the start - how did they get an operating licence?
Either the CAA were caught napping here (very unlikely), or he gave them completely fanciful numbers and they didn't check properly (again, unlikely the CAA wouldn't) or someone has been very naughty....
Wonder which?
Cool Mod
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I think what Slim is trying to say is that the term "doomed to failure" is one used about any business that may be properly funded, but serious doubts may have existed about the viability of the project.
If the CAA are satisfied that it stacks up they will give it the go, they cannot do anything else. It just means, like many other airline ventures that have failed, that the business they thought was there wasn't.
And Slim! Don't knock Arsenal yet. They are still there! But I do wish they hadn't lost against Chelsea.
If the CAA are satisfied that it stacks up they will give it the go, they cannot do anything else. It just means, like many other airline ventures that have failed, that the business they thought was there wasn't.
And Slim! Don't knock Arsenal yet. They are still there! But I do wish they hadn't lost against Chelsea.
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The CAA, in undertaking a financial fitness review, only look at the contingency requirements and capital required in accordance with the criteria they lay down. They don't examine or comment on the commercial viability of the business nor will they comment, from a purely commercial standpoint, on the merits, or otherwise, of the choice of equipment.
If someone submits a business plan, for example, to operate services to Delhi using a DC3 you may say " It won't work" but if the owner refuses to acknowledge that, and the considered opinion of several others in the business, it is just a question of how long the money, and credibility, will last.
If someone submits a business plan, for example, to operate services to Delhi using a DC3 you may say " It won't work" but if the owner refuses to acknowledge that, and the considered opinion of several others in the business, it is just a question of how long the money, and credibility, will last.
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Therein lies my point.
Either:
UKIA had some pretty good data about the size of the market (and trust me, the CAA would have checked this out as well); or
The CAA would have trimmed their loads and yields back to what the CAA thought was reasonable (and remember, the CAA won't take a punt, they will assume the worst unless proved otherwise), and would have set them a very large cash requirement. They DO look at the viability of the business plan in as far as they want to see sensible load and yield levels, which can be supported with facts.
In either case, UKIA would have had to demonstrate that it could lay hands on enough cash (enough as per the CAA's definition, not UKIA's) to last two years.
Your DC3 example is useful - if someone wanted to do this, the CAA may say "fine, get on with it, but only when you can fund the operation for two years, and that will cost you £100m". When the company has £100m, they get the licence, and can sell. If this £100m has evaporated in a matter of months - don't questions need to be asked?
They lasted a matter of months, therefore either the CAA AND UKIA got it badly wrong, or something smells funny...
TA
Either:
UKIA had some pretty good data about the size of the market (and trust me, the CAA would have checked this out as well); or
The CAA would have trimmed their loads and yields back to what the CAA thought was reasonable (and remember, the CAA won't take a punt, they will assume the worst unless proved otherwise), and would have set them a very large cash requirement. They DO look at the viability of the business plan in as far as they want to see sensible load and yield levels, which can be supported with facts.
In either case, UKIA would have had to demonstrate that it could lay hands on enough cash (enough as per the CAA's definition, not UKIA's) to last two years.
Your DC3 example is useful - if someone wanted to do this, the CAA may say "fine, get on with it, but only when you can fund the operation for two years, and that will cost you £100m". When the company has £100m, they get the licence, and can sell. If this £100m has evaporated in a matter of months - don't questions need to be asked?
They lasted a matter of months, therefore either the CAA AND UKIA got it badly wrong, or something smells funny...
TA
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Lack of Management
Twin Ailse is right the CAA look very carefully into to any airline proposal for an A Licence. B Licence holders are treated differently that is why there is a differnce between a 19 seat operator and the airlines with aircraft above that capacity. I can not see the CAA getting it wrong. They want all licence holders to remain flying. Dont forget if an airline fails the CAA has to get the stranded passengers back. UKIA has a smell about it. Lets wait for the truth to come out.
Cool Mod
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OK guys, the 'post mortem' is over and unless there is more to add to this thread in regard to the people who lost out, and what they can expect, there is no point or purpose for it to stay.
We will give it two or three days more but please keep to the root above.
PPP
We will give it two or three days more but please keep to the root above.
PPP
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OK then guys, maybe you can help me. I was Cabin Crew for UKIA (quite possibly the worst mistake of my life), I am owed my flight pay and salary, aswel as redundancy pay and bank charges incurred whilst working for this 'Airline'.
I send e-mails everyday to mr K and ms A with little or no responce. From what we are hearing somebody (chief pilot) has been apparantly calling crew to see who would go back if UKIA did start back up.
I and ALL of the senior Cabin Crew would not go near that family again! How can we claim our money from this company? This is by no means the only problem the crew are faceing, the majority of senior crew have joined or been offered other flying jobs with well know, established and reputable airlines and are faceing the prospects of being bad referenced by ms A.
This family have well and truely screwed over the pakistani community in the midlands/noth areas and they will be tracked down eventually.
I would just like to know, what would happen if we went over to Pakistan and scammed a large percentage of the country? Would we be welcomed in and allowed to do it? Don't think so.
This man has ruined peoples lives, this is not just about the oney this family owes, what about employees credit rateings? Future career prospects? This will stay with us for at least 5 years!
If this is all to do with Mr K's pride then has he succeeded? Is he the business man he wants to be? Also the fact that the company has left people in this situation, an e-mail or call wouldn't really go a miss to say they have no update on when we will get paid.
This guy is a complete fraudster and so is his wife, why can nobody seem to get them brought to justice?
If I dont pay a bill of £40 then the gas/electric company come down on me like a ton of bricks, this guy owes more money than most people would see in a lifetime and nothing happens??? Why is that?
How can these people be left to do what hey have done and nobody see it fit to look into?
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get them? I want to take them down and make them suffer like they have made the rest of us!!!
I send e-mails everyday to mr K and ms A with little or no responce. From what we are hearing somebody (chief pilot) has been apparantly calling crew to see who would go back if UKIA did start back up.
I and ALL of the senior Cabin Crew would not go near that family again! How can we claim our money from this company? This is by no means the only problem the crew are faceing, the majority of senior crew have joined or been offered other flying jobs with well know, established and reputable airlines and are faceing the prospects of being bad referenced by ms A.
This family have well and truely screwed over the pakistani community in the midlands/noth areas and they will be tracked down eventually.
I would just like to know, what would happen if we went over to Pakistan and scammed a large percentage of the country? Would we be welcomed in and allowed to do it? Don't think so.
This man has ruined peoples lives, this is not just about the oney this family owes, what about employees credit rateings? Future career prospects? This will stay with us for at least 5 years!
If this is all to do with Mr K's pride then has he succeeded? Is he the business man he wants to be? Also the fact that the company has left people in this situation, an e-mail or call wouldn't really go a miss to say they have no update on when we will get paid.
This guy is a complete fraudster and so is his wife, why can nobody seem to get them brought to justice?
If I dont pay a bill of £40 then the gas/electric company come down on me like a ton of bricks, this guy owes more money than most people would see in a lifetime and nothing happens??? Why is that?
How can these people be left to do what hey have done and nobody see it fit to look into?
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get them? I want to take them down and make them suffer like they have made the rest of us!!!
How do they get away with it?
Simple I'm afraid, it's called UK corporate law, and limited liability companies.
It's perfectly normal for a company to go bankrupt, only for it to rise, phoenix like from the ashes in the same premises, with the same directors under a slightly different name. It's just too easy.
This happens every day outside of the aviation industry - and other people are daily dumped out of jobs, owed money they'll probably never see, leaving their families in dire straits. Just ask the employees of Rover Cars!
If the directors are found to have acted fraudulently, or incompentently, then they may be barred from becoming company directors for a period of years. But that's no problem, they just make a relative or crooked business colleague a director of the phoenix company, and carry on regardless.
It's the way of the "free enterprise" world.
It's perfectly normal for a company to go bankrupt, only for it to rise, phoenix like from the ashes in the same premises, with the same directors under a slightly different name. It's just too easy.
This happens every day outside of the aviation industry - and other people are daily dumped out of jobs, owed money they'll probably never see, leaving their families in dire straits. Just ask the employees of Rover Cars!
If the directors are found to have acted fraudulently, or incompentently, then they may be barred from becoming company directors for a period of years. But that's no problem, they just make a relative or crooked business colleague a director of the phoenix company, and carry on regardless.
It's the way of the "free enterprise" world.
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So wtf can you do about it?
The following information is available at Companies House - I have tried to shrink it as far as possible:
Name & Registered Office: U.K. INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES LIMITED, QUEENS HOUSE
308-318 QUEENS ROAD, SHEFFIELD, SOUTH YORKSHIRE S2 4DL Company No. 05561856
Status:Active
Date of Incorporation:13/09/05
Country of Origin: United Kingdom
Company Type: Private Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC(03)): 6210 - Scheduled air transport
Accounting Reference Date: 30/09
Last Accounts Made Up To: 30/09/2006 (TOTAL EXEMPTION SMALL)
Next Accounts Due: 30/07/2008
Last Return Made Up To: 12/09/2006
Next Return Due: 11/10/2007 OVERDUE
Last Members List: 12/09/2006
Previous Names: No previous name information has been recorded over the last 20 years.
Branch Details
There are no branches associated with this company.
Oversea Company Info
There are no Oversea Details associated with this company.
I have obtained both the 12/09/2006 Annual Return, and the Accounts, which are inconsistent. Costs £2 at: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/a0...essCompanyInfo.
The latest annual return is overdue and the company is in breach of the Companies Act.
People should complain to Companies House about the overdue Annual Return and inconsistent Accounts.
Name & Registered Office: U.K. INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES LIMITED, QUEENS HOUSE
308-318 QUEENS ROAD, SHEFFIELD, SOUTH YORKSHIRE S2 4DL Company No. 05561856
Status:Active
Date of Incorporation:13/09/05
Country of Origin: United Kingdom
Company Type: Private Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC(03)): 6210 - Scheduled air transport
Accounting Reference Date: 30/09
Last Accounts Made Up To: 30/09/2006 (TOTAL EXEMPTION SMALL)
Next Accounts Due: 30/07/2008
Last Return Made Up To: 12/09/2006
Next Return Due: 11/10/2007 OVERDUE
Last Members List: 12/09/2006
Previous Names: No previous name information has been recorded over the last 20 years.
Branch Details
There are no branches associated with this company.
Oversea Company Info
There are no Oversea Details associated with this company.
I have obtained both the 12/09/2006 Annual Return, and the Accounts, which are inconsistent. Costs £2 at: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/a0...essCompanyInfo.
The latest annual return is overdue and the company is in breach of the Companies Act.
People should complain to Companies House about the overdue Annual Return and inconsistent Accounts.
- If they believe the company is fraudulent I suggest that affected people write to the Registrar of Companies and/or Department of Trade & Industry.
- If they are owed money then they need to go the the Courts for redress, hopefully the Small Claims Court, which is inexpensive and easy to use. Sue the individuals as well as the company and you could end up owning the furniture workshop or the former pickle factory but there could be a very long queue.
- If they are owed a lot then they should appoint a Receiver or seek to wind the company up. (Wake up Barclays Bank!)
- If they think the company is involved in tax and national insurance fraud they should report it to HMRC Fraud Unit.
Last edited by Viewedfromabove; 31st Mar 2008 at 21:59.
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UKIA
I've not been on for a while, but it looks like the hornets nest has been poked again - will this lot ever go away?! I agree with several posts here, David007 (thankfully now blocked) MUST be an employee or very close to defend the owners to this extent. The English is appalling, much like many of the letters and emails this company sent out and the web-site! If he is, I bet he's getting a salary, like the other wasters still hoping this thing will take off again. Not Likely, as someone said - who will trust them now, and where will his workforce come from - most of the people approached to be post holders could not get through to this guy - the guys that did take a job (who WERE already employed and fancied the challenge) have been 
. Incidentally, most of them were snapped up by other operators, despite their history with UKIA, so there is life afterwards.
As for them giving bad references, that is out of order, but based on what I've heard the HR was not up to much anyway.
It has to be questioned, just how did UKIA convince CAA CPG this was a viable project, based on finances - I think there was some creative accounting going on here!!!
I say again, these people are not to be trusted, they had no regard and no respect for experienced British aviation people, we would not be allowed to behave like this in Pakistan or wherever, we would be hunted down...
. Incidentally, most of them were snapped up by other operators, despite their history with UKIA, so there is life afterwards.As for them giving bad references, that is out of order, but based on what I've heard the HR was not up to much anyway.
It has to be questioned, just how did UKIA convince CAA CPG this was a viable project, based on finances - I think there was some creative accounting going on here!!!
I say again, these people are not to be trusted, they had no regard and no respect for experienced British aviation people, we would not be allowed to behave like this in Pakistan or wherever, we would be hunted down...
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Nearest Halfords to EMA?
If they are being relaunched, it won't be with their a/c at EMA. Already impounded by the airport but it's had the main battery removed this morning so won't be moving anytime soon-unless Halfords stock one nearby
Right,I'll get me coat.......................
Right,I'll get me coat.......................
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As of 1700 today, UKIA is officially in Administration following a London Court hearing with the main creditors.
Sharma and Co of Birmingham have been appointed. Creditors include the aircraft owner, travel agents, Barclays Bank, spares providers and otherrs
Sharma and Co of Birmingham have been appointed. Creditors include the aircraft owner, travel agents, Barclays Bank, spares providers and otherrs
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Keeping Promises
UKIA didn't just sucker the CAA. Even the mighty Boeing Company got taken for a ride based on the following article on Boeing.com!
www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/archive/2007/december/dec07frontiers.pdf
The article is on Page 32, humorously titled "a great start".
Re Towerman above:
Send your claims to Sharma & Co. 50, Newhall St, Birmingham, West Midlands B3 3RJ Tel: 0121 248 5007. www.sharmaandco.com
www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/archive/2007/december/dec07frontiers.pdf
The article is on Page 32, humorously titled "a great start".
Re Towerman above:
Send your claims to Sharma & Co. 50, Newhall St, Birmingham, West Midlands B3 3RJ Tel: 0121 248 5007. www.sharmaandco.com
Cool Mod
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OK. So there is no more to be done except.....register yourself as a creditor with the administrator. You are entitled to do that. That is the good news.
Now for the bad news. You will be LAST in the queue. First will be HMRC. Then the others in order of preference. Then you. It's not very nice but that is the way it is. Sorry!
You may continue to use the thread to pass on information of interest but there won't be much of that I am afraid.
Good luck.
AA&R Mods.
Now for the bad news. You will be LAST in the queue. First will be HMRC. Then the others in order of preference. Then you. It's not very nice but that is the way it is. Sorry!
You may continue to use the thread to pass on information of interest but there won't be much of that I am afraid.
Good luck.
AA&R Mods.
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DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD!!!
Excellent news about UKIA, good luck to everyone claiming money back from the liquidators, at least its more than you would have got from the owners themselves!!
Finally the book can now be closed, and everyone lived happily ever after....well.....almost
Lesson learn't----> never work for again!
Excellent news about UKIA, good luck to everyone claiming money back from the liquidators, at least its more than you would have got from the owners themselves!!
Finally the book can now be closed, and everyone lived happily ever after....well.....almost
Lesson learn't----> never work for
again!
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Heard last night that when the Administrators visited the offices of UKIA in Sheffield there was a strongarm reception committee waiting and caused a bit of physical grief - unbelievable if so.... and a warning to any other wannabee claimants who take it into their mind to pay a personal visit. What a