GATWICK
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I encountered the request for sight of boarding cards by the guy on the conveyor for the first time at the weekend. I asked him why they were needed (twice - the second time employing my usual charm and tact) and he told me it was because of people jumping over the barrier in frustration with the scanning/photo taking process.
I've had problems with these machines since they were first installed. There are a couple of gates which won't let me through, telling me to "seek assistance". I've found that moving to an adjacent gate usually (but not always) works. These things it seems don't actually do a biometric scan - it's always a photograph that appears on the screens at the second check down in the pier alongside a big red rectangle containing a message along the lines of "unable to carry out biometric reconciliation - check photo" or some such. Or perhaps they try to scan but fail and revert to the photograph. I must be shifty eyed or something to upset them so often.
They have the same system at LCY (same ownership) but without the biometric scan/photo process because LCY doesn't let inbound and outbound pax mix or allow transfers airside. Personally I'd be happy to avoid the chaos that is the main departure area and be routed to a domestic flight only lounge, and no longer have to endure this process. But only if there was a Pret or similar in it of course...
I've had problems with these machines since they were first installed. There are a couple of gates which won't let me through, telling me to "seek assistance". I've found that moving to an adjacent gate usually (but not always) works. These things it seems don't actually do a biometric scan - it's always a photograph that appears on the screens at the second check down in the pier alongside a big red rectangle containing a message along the lines of "unable to carry out biometric reconciliation - check photo" or some such. Or perhaps they try to scan but fail and revert to the photograph. I must be shifty eyed or something to upset them so often.
They have the same system at LCY (same ownership) but without the biometric scan/photo process because LCY doesn't let inbound and outbound pax mix or allow transfers airside. Personally I'd be happy to avoid the chaos that is the main departure area and be routed to a domestic flight only lounge, and no longer have to endure this process. But only if there was a Pret or similar in it of course...
Join Date: Apr 2004
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I never felt that scanning the boarding card at the gate slowed things down in Manchester, what does slow things down is 'despite being told regularly' people wait till they get there to slowly remove coats, belts etc.
This appears to be what Heathrow has been doing for a little while, taking the boarding card again as you approach the security point to measure the queueing time, which is reported in government-required statistics.
I've written before how an ensuing fraud then started at Heathrow (certainly T5) with the operative taking the cards at the security point works progressively back down the queue, taking the cards, scanning them, and giving them back to you increasingly early, when there are still maybe half a dozen people (and maybe some minutes) to go before you can even start putting things on the belt. Furthermore, to get people up to the front of the main queue even earlier, there now is normally a second sub-queue of half-a-dozen or so people waiting for their turn through the scanner.
My hunch is that the "someone jumped the first security point" line is a parrot answer they have been told to give if the precedure is questioned. because otherwise people would start saying that their cards had been timestamped again long before they get to the head of the queue.
The only way to measure this properly is to scan again at the final exit after all the procedures have been completed. That would be the genuine security time. Of course, the officials at the DfT who thought this requiement up would have no clue about how to implement it or give scope for fiddling it.
I've written before how an ensuing fraud then started at Heathrow (certainly T5) with the operative taking the cards at the security point works progressively back down the queue, taking the cards, scanning them, and giving them back to you increasingly early, when there are still maybe half a dozen people (and maybe some minutes) to go before you can even start putting things on the belt. Furthermore, to get people up to the front of the main queue even earlier, there now is normally a second sub-queue of half-a-dozen or so people waiting for their turn through the scanner.
My hunch is that the "someone jumped the first security point" line is a parrot answer they have been told to give if the precedure is questioned. because otherwise people would start saying that their cards had been timestamped again long before they get to the head of the queue.
The only way to measure this properly is to scan again at the final exit after all the procedures have been completed. That would be the genuine security time. Of course, the officials at the DfT who thought this requiement up would have no clue about how to implement it or give scope for fiddling it.
WHBM - if you think this is happening, you could always write a letter of complaint to the airport or the CAA and say you are concerned about the *public perception* of fraud occurring and that you believe it important that the process should be transparent and beyond criticism
If written as a formal complaint, it'll probably reach somebody with enough brains to realise that this is a coded warning to change procedures before it eventually makes its way into the press.
If written as a formal complaint, it'll probably reach somebody with enough brains to realise that this is a coded warning to change procedures before it eventually makes its way into the press.
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 7th Sep 2012 at 13:45.
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I traveled through LGW's North Terminal last Saturday afternoon. There was one queue for departures and it took 20 mins to get to the other side. I thought it was only meant to take a few minutes nowadays (or so they keep saying)! Of course everybody had to get their boarding passes out for a second time, so I suppose that's going to take a while.
It must be a nightmare when it's actually busy!!
It must be a nightmare when it's actually busy!!
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Just to clarify the situation at LGW South in case there is any doubt. The passes were not being scanned again by the conveyor people as a queuing time check. Only a cursory glance was being given at them and then they were handed back.
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Skippy, with all due respect I think you might have misunderstood ayroplain's post. He was simply explaining what had gone on as opposed to proposing a solution.
Unless of course I've misunderstood you, in which case apologies for being a pillock.
Unless of course I've misunderstood you, in which case apologies for being a pillock.
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Quote: "I never felt that scanning the boarding card at the gate slowed things down in Manchester, what does slow things down is 'despite being told regularly' people wait till they get there to slowly remove coats, belts etc."
That is exactly what slows the process down, and not just at MAN.
Quote: "Personally I'd be happy to avoid the chaos that is the main departure area and be routed to a domestic flight only lounge, and no longer have to endure this process. But only if there was a Pret or similar in it of course..."
Domestic departures were segregated at LHR-1 until recently when they brought in the common departure area (like LHR-5) and photographing domestic pax at security and again at the gate or pier entrance.
The question is: why is this system in use at some airport terminals with common departure areas, such as LHR-1 and LHR-5, but not at others, such as EDI, GLA, MAN-3, etc.?
That is exactly what slows the process down, and not just at MAN.
Quote: "Personally I'd be happy to avoid the chaos that is the main departure area and be routed to a domestic flight only lounge, and no longer have to endure this process. But only if there was a Pret or similar in it of course..."
Domestic departures were segregated at LHR-1 until recently when they brought in the common departure area (like LHR-5) and photographing domestic pax at security and again at the gate or pier entrance.
The question is: why is this system in use at some airport terminals with common departure areas, such as LHR-1 and LHR-5, but not at others, such as EDI, GLA, MAN-3, etc.?
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 7th Sep 2012 at 18:56.
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The question is: why is this system in use at some airport terminals with common departure areas, such as LHR-1 and LHR-5, but not at others, such as EDI, GLA, MAN-3, etc.?
This ability is not avaialable elsewhere in the UK, indeed one cannot simply walk out of the departure lounge at these airports unescorted, whereas you can elsewhere.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 18th Sep 2012 at 22:20.
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Quote: "LGW N and LGW S alongwith LHR T1 and LHR T5 are unique in that Flight Connections allows arriving passengers with onwards connections to pass through security and not immigration before arriving in the departure lounge. Hence photo reconciliation of all domestic passengers is in force to prevent undesirables just getting on the domestic flight and getting off elsewhere in the UK without having to show a passport.
This ability is not avaialable elsewhere in the UK, indeed one cannot simply walk out of the departure lounge at these airports unescorted, whereas you can elsewhere."
Thanks for the info, Skipness One Echo.
This ability is not avaialable elsewhere in the UK, indeed one cannot simply walk out of the departure lounge at these airports unescorted, whereas you can elsewhere."
Thanks for the info, Skipness One Echo.
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SOE
Why do you say arriving in LHR T5 allows you to pass through security but not immigration ? I arrived BA from Hamburg and nearly missed my onward to GLA because flight connections DID take me through 2 dedicated immigration lines, neither of which was for EU passports and both of which were jammed by some non EU passport holder requiring 15 minutes of attention at the head of the line. UKBA ''service'' ?? Only made the GLA flight because it was half an hour late boarding. Such are the joys of LHR, even with BA straight through ticketing in T5.
Why do you say arriving in LHR T5 allows you to pass through security but not immigration ? I arrived BA from Hamburg and nearly missed my onward to GLA because flight connections DID take me through 2 dedicated immigration lines, neither of which was for EU passports and both of which were jammed by some non EU passport holder requiring 15 minutes of attention at the head of the line. UKBA ''service'' ?? Only made the GLA flight because it was half an hour late boarding. Such are the joys of LHR, even with BA straight through ticketing in T5.
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I live in London, I only ever had to use Flight Connections T3->T4 once very recently, and at no time did I show a passport.
I have not done the gig at T5!
I have not done the gig at T5!
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Quote: "SOE
Why do you say arriving in LHR T5 allows you to pass through security but not immigration ? I arrived BA from Hamburg and nearly missed my onward to GLA because flight connections DID take me through 2 dedicated immigration lines, neither of which was for EU passports and both of which were jammed by some non EU passport holder requiring 15 minutes of attention at the head of the line. UKBA ''service'' ?? Only made the GLA flight because it was half an hour late boarding. Such are the joys of LHR, even with BA straight through ticketing"
It may be the difference between an international-international transfer, as described by SOE, and an international-domestic one, where border control takes place at LHR and baggage claim/customs at the final (domestic) destination, provided that luggage is checked through. AFAIK, this is standard procedure in most countries where luggage can be checked through.
Obviously domestic-international and domestic-domestic would be unaffected by all this.
Why do you say arriving in LHR T5 allows you to pass through security but not immigration ? I arrived BA from Hamburg and nearly missed my onward to GLA because flight connections DID take me through 2 dedicated immigration lines, neither of which was for EU passports and both of which were jammed by some non EU passport holder requiring 15 minutes of attention at the head of the line. UKBA ''service'' ?? Only made the GLA flight because it was half an hour late boarding. Such are the joys of LHR, even with BA straight through ticketing"
It may be the difference between an international-international transfer, as described by SOE, and an international-domestic one, where border control takes place at LHR and baggage claim/customs at the final (domestic) destination, provided that luggage is checked through. AFAIK, this is standard procedure in most countries where luggage can be checked through.
Obviously domestic-international and domestic-domestic would be unaffected by all this.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 19th Sep 2012 at 21:31.
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Arrived as a domestic at LGW South Pier 1 yesterday. Slight wait for jetbridge, then off plane to be held en masse at gate entrance waiting for someone to come and man the photo id scan and issue the barcode on a piece of paper to each of us. Then around 100 of us walking up the half corridor to the domestic arrivals hall against the flow of outbound pax and navigating around the queue boarding at Gate 1. Generally LGW is hugely improved but the domestic arrivals set up is not exactly slick. Presume something better is in the offing with the redevelopment of Pier 1 given the not insignificant amount of domestic traffic? It's not badly managed, it just seems a bit 'clunky'.
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2nd runway Gatwick
Before anyone jumps the gun, please read on.
I have recently seen a map showing the location of the 'planned' second runway at Gatwick, south of the existing one. In 1969 I worked for BUA and saw a brochure that had been given to all employees on the occasion of the move to Gatwick from Croydon. This brochure included a map of the airport as it was then and also had a proposed additional runway. If my memory is correct, this had one end roughly at the current western (08) end running in a north-easterly direction, towards Horley.
Has anyone a copy of this or confirm what I saw was at that time correct? Obviously such a runway could not be constructed now, well I suppose it could, goodbye North Terminal, Hotels and some of Horley.
Look forward to seeing what this brings, if anything.
I have recently seen a map showing the location of the 'planned' second runway at Gatwick, south of the existing one. In 1969 I worked for BUA and saw a brochure that had been given to all employees on the occasion of the move to Gatwick from Croydon. This brochure included a map of the airport as it was then and also had a proposed additional runway. If my memory is correct, this had one end roughly at the current western (08) end running in a north-easterly direction, towards Horley.
Has anyone a copy of this or confirm what I saw was at that time correct? Obviously such a runway could not be constructed now, well I suppose it could, goodbye North Terminal, Hotels and some of Horley.
Look forward to seeing what this brings, if anything.
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So whats it like now the new owners have settled in?
Currently at a BAA airport with a for sale sign at the gates, I can't help but wonder if it has made a difference (apart from the three hundred or more poor bu44ers that lost their jobs) to the remaining staff. have you lost out at all?
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Quote: "I traveled through LGW's North Terminal last Saturday afternoon. There was one queue for departures and it took 20 mins to get to the other side. I thought it was only meant to take a few minutes nowadays (or so they keep saying)! Of course everybody had to get their boarding passes out for a second time, so I suppose that's going to take a while.
It must be a nightmare when it's actually busy!!"
Had similar, but boarding pass looked at three times. Why does the chap by the conveyor belt need to see it? Surely he/she has enough to do reminding people to remove their coats, take their laptops out, etc., etc..
Could that be why a 5-minute procedure takes over 20?
Quote: "I have recently seen a map showing the location of the 'planned' second runway at Gatwick, south of the existing one. In 1969 I worked for BUA and saw a brochure that had been given to all employees on the occasion of the move to Gatwick from Croydon. This brochure included a map of the airport as it was then and also had a proposed additional runway. If my memory is correct, this had one end roughly at the current western (08) end running in a north-easterly direction, towards Horley.
Has anyone a copy of this or confirm what I saw was at that time correct? Obviously such a runway could not be constructed now, well I suppose it could, goodbye North Terminal, Hotels and some of Horley.
Wasn't the original plan for the 2nd rwy to be north of the current one?
Couldn't happen now, of course, because of LGW-North.
Quote: "Arrived as a domestic at LGW South Pier 1 yesterday. Slight wait for jetbridge, then off plane to be held en masse at gate entrance waiting for someone to come and man the photo id scan and issue the barcode on a piece of paper to each of us. Then around 100 of us walking up the half corridor to the domestic arrivals hall against the flow of outbound pax and navigating around the queue boarding at Gate 1. Generally LGW is hugely improved but the domestic arrivals set up is not exactly slick. Presume something better is in the offing with the redevelopment of Pier 1 given the not insignificant amount of domestic traffic? It's not badly managed, it just seems a bit 'clunky'."
Yes, have had that experience too, it is not good enough!
As it is a dedicated domestic pier (as at LHR-1) do the pax need to be segregated? Would a photo for departing pax (as at LHR-1) not be sufficient? The domestic pier is on two levels, could not arriving and departing pax be segregated by level if it is in fact necessary?
What sort of impression does it give of the UK's second biggest airport?
It must be a nightmare when it's actually busy!!"
Had similar, but boarding pass looked at three times. Why does the chap by the conveyor belt need to see it? Surely he/she has enough to do reminding people to remove their coats, take their laptops out, etc., etc..
Could that be why a 5-minute procedure takes over 20?
Quote: "I have recently seen a map showing the location of the 'planned' second runway at Gatwick, south of the existing one. In 1969 I worked for BUA and saw a brochure that had been given to all employees on the occasion of the move to Gatwick from Croydon. This brochure included a map of the airport as it was then and also had a proposed additional runway. If my memory is correct, this had one end roughly at the current western (08) end running in a north-easterly direction, towards Horley.
Has anyone a copy of this or confirm what I saw was at that time correct? Obviously such a runway could not be constructed now, well I suppose it could, goodbye North Terminal, Hotels and some of Horley.
Wasn't the original plan for the 2nd rwy to be north of the current one?
Couldn't happen now, of course, because of LGW-North.
Quote: "Arrived as a domestic at LGW South Pier 1 yesterday. Slight wait for jetbridge, then off plane to be held en masse at gate entrance waiting for someone to come and man the photo id scan and issue the barcode on a piece of paper to each of us. Then around 100 of us walking up the half corridor to the domestic arrivals hall against the flow of outbound pax and navigating around the queue boarding at Gate 1. Generally LGW is hugely improved but the domestic arrivals set up is not exactly slick. Presume something better is in the offing with the redevelopment of Pier 1 given the not insignificant amount of domestic traffic? It's not badly managed, it just seems a bit 'clunky'."
Yes, have had that experience too, it is not good enough!
As it is a dedicated domestic pier (as at LHR-1) do the pax need to be segregated? Would a photo for departing pax (as at LHR-1) not be sufficient? The domestic pier is on two levels, could not arriving and departing pax be segregated by level if it is in fact necessary?
What sort of impression does it give of the UK's second biggest airport?