GATWICK

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by davidjohnson6

Could we move the "shall we put a new runway at Heathrow or Gatwick" discussion into a separate thread please and leave this thread for matters of a purely Gatwick nature ?

Well yes, pretty well all the arguments have been rehashed ad nauseam in the various airport expansion threads.

But before we quit, I'd love to understand the basis of this argument:

Originally Posted by Vokes55

A new runway at Gatwick could double capacity overnight, an extra 40million per year. A third runway at Heathrow is going to increase capacity by 15-20million max

A runway is a runway. Wherever you stick it, it's going to be able to accommodate roughly the same amount of traffic.

So how does a new runway at Gatwick have double the capacity of one at Heathrow? If that were actually the case, the Airports Commission's decision ought to have been a no-brainer.

[yotty]

Vokes55 I'm curious to know if you would gain financially if the second runway at LGW went ahead?

[Vokes55]

A runway is a runway. Wherever you stick it, it's going to be able to accommodate roughly the same amount of traffic.

So how does a new runway at Gatwick have double the capacity of one at Heathrow? If that were actually the case, the Airports Commission's decision ought to have been a no-brainer.

Because adding an extra strip of tarmac doesn't increase airspace available. Airspace is the biggest issue, Heathrow is surrounded on all sides and there's no room for additional routings in and out of the TMA. Gatwick doesn't have this issue.

That aside, I'd imagine a new runway at Heathrow will come with restrictions, whether it be limited operating hours or a movement cap.

Vokes55 I'm curious to know if you would gain financially if the second runway at LGW went ahead?

Enlighten me, how do you think I'd gain financially if the second runway at LGW went ahead?

[T250]

Sorry to burst the oh so precious LHR bubble, but I personally and all my friends, if we want a hub will go for AMS.

Cheaper, cleaner and more efficient than LHR. Always

And think of how many flights there are there daily from almost ALL the UK's regional airports, why the hell would anyone bother with LHR?

easyJet, KLM or Flybe to AMS is always far cheaper than an LHR fare.

LHR Hub? Maybe, but there are FAR better hubs to be had in Europe, better quality, lower cost.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by Vokes55

Because adding an extra strip of tarmac doesn't increase airspace available. Airspace is the biggest issue, Heathrow is surrounded on all sides and there's no room for additional routings in and out of the TMA. Gatwick doesn't have this issue.

Hmmm.

The conclusion reached by the Airports Commission was that a third runway at Heathrow would add roughly 240,000 ATMs per year to capacity.

So, for your assertion to be true ...

Originally Posted by Vokes55

A new runway at Gatwick could double capacity overnight, an extra 40million per year. A third runway at Heathrow is going to increase capacity by 15-20million max, a third of which won't even enter the country. It's a no brainer.

... that a second runway at Gatwick would provide double the increase in capacity compared to a new Heathrow runway, LGW R2 would have to be capable of handling nearly half a million movements per year (unless you're suggesting that the average number of pax per movement would be much higher at LGW than at LHR).

So the additional capacity provided by a second runway at Gatwick would be as much as that of both of Heathrow's current two runways combined.

Really ???

[T250]

Who cares? European hubs are better. They've already won!

Multiple runways at AMS, FRA, CDG, MAD.

Oh well

[Vokes55]

The conclusion reached by the Airports Commission was that a third runway at Heathrow would add roughly 240,000 ATMs per year to capacity.

What they did was divide the current number of movements by 2, and assume that would be how much capacity would be added. There simply isn't the airspace capacity to increase movements into and out of LHR by 51%.

Whilst we're on the subject, Gatwick has 18% more movements and 14% more passengers per runway than Heathrow, in it's current state - and Gatwick would have no airspace restrictions with a second runway.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by Vokes55

Whilst we're on the subject, Gatwick has 18% more movements and 14% more passengers per runway than Heathrow, in it's current state

So you're saying that Gatwick actually has fewer passengers per movement than Heathrow ?

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

So, for your assertion to be true that a second runway at Gatwick would provide double the increase in capacity compared to a new Heathrow runway, LGW R2 would have to be capable of handling nearly half a million movements per year (unless you're suggesting that the average number of pax per movement would be much higher at LGW than at LHR).

Then that makes your numbers even more dubious.

[Skipness One Echo]

Whilst we're on the subject, Gatwick has 18% more movements and 14% more passengers per runway than Heathrow, in it's current state - and Gatwick would have no airspace restrictions with a second runway.

LGW and LHR both have airspace restrictions, you can eye ball LHR inbounds and departures from LGW easily, they're quite close together.
LHR doesn't currently use land and depart on the same runway for any length of time for noise abatement purposes, LGW does and so of course the runway is more heavily utilised.
AMS has been a great option since the Air UK days but in fairness is starting to feel the pinch, it may have six runways BUT as most on here will know, it uses four at any one time and to nothing close to maximum efficiency. AMS is a poor option to connect if I have to go easyJet to KLM, that's two fares rather than a bundled connecting fare for a start, so despite what you say, there's still a few of us who like the T5 ot T2 option at LHR, T4/T3 well, less so

[Vokes55]

LGW and LHR both have airspace restrictions, you can eye ball LHR inbounds and departures from LGW easily, they're quite close together.

Whilst true to an extent, LGW has the whole of the airspace over Sussex near enough to itself. Heathrow is restricted on all sides, even so far as Bristol to the West, with the majority of transatlantic departures interfering with the majority of Bristol arrivals. I spent two years dirty diving into Bristol having been left 8000ft high by London due to LHR departure traffic.

With Stansted and Luton to the North, City to the East, Biggin to the Southeast, Gatwick to the South, Farnborough and a big chunk of military airspace to the Southwest, there isn't room for an extra 240,000 movements per year without severely limiting these other airports. It's the busiest airspace in the world.

[kcockayne]

Whilst what you say about Gatwick having the airspace to the South, it is interesting to note that the departures from 26 to DVR make a right turn out ( to the North) on the SID.

[MattH150197]

Strengths and weaknesses of London Gatwick Airport customer service management

Im currently doing a report on the Customer Service Management at Gatwick Airport and am advised to do SWOT analysis (Strength, weaknesses, opportunities and threats) i have found strengths easily enough as youd expect they are well advertised by the airport but im not sure for the weaknesses do you think i could use customer reviews as a source as im struggling to find something more formal and can you think of any potential weaknesses? Also as a threat im thinking of using the highly rated customer service at Heathrow do you think that would be suitable? Thanks for any help you can offer

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by MattH150197

Also as a threat im thinking of using the highly rated customer service at Heathrow do you think that would be suitable?

If you've been able to rate Heathrow's customer service that easily then Gatwick's shouldn't present you with any problem either.

[Loch1]

There is plenty of regulatory material available on the CAA website.

[True Blue]

Norwegian starting Singapore from end of September.

[cornishsimon]

It will be interesting to see if BA respond

[AvGeek1]

Originally Posted by True Blue

Norwegian starting Singapore from end of September.

Here is the schedule:

DI7407 LGW1030 – 0615+1SIN 789 14
DI7409 LGW2230 – 1815+1SIN 789 26

DI7408 SIN0850 – 1530LGW 789 25
DI7410 SIN2340 – 0620+1LGW 789 37

[MattH150197]

Okay maybe i shouldnt have worded it like that but doing some quick research on Heathrow i found that it was listed in the top 10 airports in the world by the Passengers Choice Awards and of course it being so close to Gatwick its the obvious threat.

[Logohu]

I wonder if NO announcement LGW-SIN might prompt Scoot to try a SIN-LGW ?

[wallp]

Singapore is a great result for LGW.

Norwegian really are pushing the long haul market, I wonder where next?