PRESTWICK
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@ Cabincrewe, ok, so some people think that Prestwick Airport is a dump. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. What would you like to see changed to make the terminal a better experience for passengers?
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If the terminal and facilities are so bad, are they worth updating considering the decline in passenger numbers?
Having said that, it is worth remembering that more passengers passed through Prestwick in the 12 months to October than passed through Cardiff airport.
Having said that, it is worth remembering that more passengers passed through Prestwick in the 12 months to October than passed through Cardiff airport.
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Having said that, it is worth remembering that more passengers passed through Prestwick in the 12 months to October than passed through Cardiff airport.
High Street chains. PIK has very little support from that source.
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I have to agree that local support for your airport is admirable etc but I agree with the masses in that PWK is a 'dump'. Of all the airports I have flown from/to it is sadly the the most depressing and that's without mentioning the pathetic Elvis references.
Commercial pax and airline ops are what makes an airport profitable, not maintenance hangars and the odd military diversion. With Ryanair shrinking ops at PWK it just confirms the downward spiral...Hopefully GLA can benefit and give EDI a run for their money.
Commercial pax and airline ops are what makes an airport profitable, not maintenance hangars and the odd military diversion. With Ryanair shrinking ops at PWK it just confirms the downward spiral...Hopefully GLA can benefit and give EDI a run for their money.
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There was a lot of debate in the local media when I was in Chicago some time ago about Pal-Waukee (PWK) and how much tax payers money had been invested in it, however I fail to see the connection with Prestwick.
I am sorry but we all have an interest in aviation or we would not be on this site so we should be able to get the airport codes right and not need to make our own up.
I am sorry but we all have an interest in aviation or we would not be on this site so we should be able to get the airport codes right and not need to make our own up.
Last edited by pwalhx; 17th Nov 2012 at 20:31.
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So what exactly makes Prestwick Airport "a dump"? I know a woman from Aberdeen who regularly flies to Alicante from Prestwick. Surely if it was such a "dump" she would fly from Glasgow or Edinburgh. Apparently there are no flights from Aberdeen. It is quite obvious that you would love Prestwick to close and transfer all business up to Glasgow. I use both Prestwick and Glasgow on a fairly regular basis and I wouldn't wish any of them to close and people to lose their jobs.
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Hopefully GLA can benefit and give EDI a run for their money.
What no one has mentioned is that if FR does up sticks the remaining flights will have to cover the fixed operating costs without the volume of FRs flights. So while passenger ops may not be making money, they are helping to cover some of the costs and, as a result, the airport may lose even more money should they cease. I think you may find FR may last longer than you think.
By the way PWK is Palwaukee Municipal Airport in Chicago, Prestwick is PIK.
Ex
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Ahh colours are shown.
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There was a lot of debate in the local media when I was in Chicago some time ago about Pal-Waukee (PWK) and how much tax payers money had been invested in it, however I fail to see the connection with Prestwick.
Regards "true colours", I hope to see both GLA & EDI (and PIK) thrive. It is about passenger choice, demand and current climate restrictions. I hope the competition between them escalates now they have seperate owners. Sadly PIK is in a different division altogether and I can't see how it can survive. It is not like it has had peaks and troughs in its history, sadly it has been a downward spiral over the years.
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Prestwick
My recent visit to Scotland where I flew into GLA, rented a car and picked up Spanish friend at PIK, they flew Ryanair, there was a £100 difference in the fare.
In these difficult times airlines in many markets reducing capacity and increasing fares to drive yield, makes some sense given the sheet cost of fuel. GLA is the more attractive airport in many ways, and easyJet higher price reflected in fact that bookings were higher on easyJet flight, as people want to fly to GLA.
PIK has become dull and run down, which is sad given its history, so similar to Shannon. However, given the climate we live in and the new economic reality, I fail to see why Glasgow needs 2 airports.
Furthermore, I can't see how PIK will attract more airlines when FR is the driving force at the airport, and lets see as the Ryaniar V Wizz price war intensifies around their respective networks how long Wizz stay in direct competition with them on many routes. Wouldn't surprise me to see Wizz move to GLA.
Ryanair have a maintenance base and park a lot of aircraft there over Winter (well did previous years) so unlikely they will be moving anytime soon.
EI-BUD
In these difficult times airlines in many markets reducing capacity and increasing fares to drive yield, makes some sense given the sheet cost of fuel. GLA is the more attractive airport in many ways, and easyJet higher price reflected in fact that bookings were higher on easyJet flight, as people want to fly to GLA.
PIK has become dull and run down, which is sad given its history, so similar to Shannon. However, given the climate we live in and the new economic reality, I fail to see why Glasgow needs 2 airports.
Furthermore, I can't see how PIK will attract more airlines when FR is the driving force at the airport, and lets see as the Ryaniar V Wizz price war intensifies around their respective networks how long Wizz stay in direct competition with them on many routes. Wouldn't surprise me to see Wizz move to GLA.
Ryanair have a maintenance base and park a lot of aircraft there over Winter (well did previous years) so unlikely they will be moving anytime soon.
EI-BUD
Last edited by EI-BUD; 18th Nov 2012 at 09:05.
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Peaks and Troughs
"It is not like it has had peaks and troughs in its history, sadly it has been a downward spiral over the years."
Not sure I agree with this statement Flygla as 'peaks and troughs' has been the trademark of PIK since the airfield was constructed. People talk of its transatlantic hey-day but at its peak during this period it must have still only catered for around 350,000 pax p.a. Two years ago it was handling over 2 million pax p.a. and despite the FR decline will handle 1.2 milllion this year approx. There have been period of declines in infrastructure without a doubt especially during the final years of BAA ownership and recently as Infratil try to find a buyer but there have been times of investment (rail station, new cargo terminal, and a general internal upgrade a few years ago although this co-incided with the dreadful 'Pure Dead Brilliant' campiagn). I had an office in Liberator House three years ago and the place was buzzing but I agree with the FR decline and the lack of investment from Infratil it is slipping once again.
Moving forward I agree with SOE's view that a new practical terminal is needed and potentially linked to the rail station and extending left along the old cargo finger. The 60's terminal is out of date and has masses of wasted space - this could be demolished to provided more car parking and make the North Side long stay car park redundant. Another idea that has been put forward is to create a Museum of Aviation within the present terminal. All this needs funding and where it would come from remains the big question. One thing is for certain - the runways will remain and given that the airport is still home to various aviation related businesses including maintenance as well as military (and not just the odd diversion), training, fuel and tech stop flights PIK will remain a strategic asset for Scotland. FR need it strategically as well (at least for the time being) if they are to keep both EDI and GLA on their toes. The passenger side of things has always been a challenge at PIK and will remain so - the peaks and troughs are set to continue.
On a side note it is interesting to see the emotions generated by PIK and also on similar airfield threads such as Teesside, Blackpool, Southend etc on PPrune. There are the comments generated by the airfield supporters that can be very 'rose tinted' whilst there are replies & comments generated by detractors who wildly exaggerate to create effect and to simply provoke.
Thankfully the vast majority of contributors put forward actual facts, deal in realism and make sensible and thought provoking suggestions. Let's keep it more this way.
Not sure I agree with this statement Flygla as 'peaks and troughs' has been the trademark of PIK since the airfield was constructed. People talk of its transatlantic hey-day but at its peak during this period it must have still only catered for around 350,000 pax p.a. Two years ago it was handling over 2 million pax p.a. and despite the FR decline will handle 1.2 milllion this year approx. There have been period of declines in infrastructure without a doubt especially during the final years of BAA ownership and recently as Infratil try to find a buyer but there have been times of investment (rail station, new cargo terminal, and a general internal upgrade a few years ago although this co-incided with the dreadful 'Pure Dead Brilliant' campiagn). I had an office in Liberator House three years ago and the place was buzzing but I agree with the FR decline and the lack of investment from Infratil it is slipping once again.
Moving forward I agree with SOE's view that a new practical terminal is needed and potentially linked to the rail station and extending left along the old cargo finger. The 60's terminal is out of date and has masses of wasted space - this could be demolished to provided more car parking and make the North Side long stay car park redundant. Another idea that has been put forward is to create a Museum of Aviation within the present terminal. All this needs funding and where it would come from remains the big question. One thing is for certain - the runways will remain and given that the airport is still home to various aviation related businesses including maintenance as well as military (and not just the odd diversion), training, fuel and tech stop flights PIK will remain a strategic asset for Scotland. FR need it strategically as well (at least for the time being) if they are to keep both EDI and GLA on their toes. The passenger side of things has always been a challenge at PIK and will remain so - the peaks and troughs are set to continue.
On a side note it is interesting to see the emotions generated by PIK and also on similar airfield threads such as Teesside, Blackpool, Southend etc on PPrune. There are the comments generated by the airfield supporters that can be very 'rose tinted' whilst there are replies & comments generated by detractors who wildly exaggerate to create effect and to simply provoke.
Thankfully the vast majority of contributors put forward actual facts, deal in realism and make sensible and thought provoking suggestions. Let's keep it more this way.
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Flyga it's not the odd military diversion, it's worth actually looking at the traffic PIK handles via the two FBOs and cargo. They never made much on FR, where they did lose out, was when the holiday flights collapsed and FR moved into this space after vacating the city routes. Cargo revenue is also well down on past years. However, like SNN, it does serve an eclectic selection of business jets, military, maintenance and fuel stops, all of which add to the bottom line.
The year round FR traffic was lost when EDI came on stream, however a large summer program us still flown to many sun destinations. PIK, like many airports is highly seasonal. It is so again, the challenge is to make that pay. Infratil seem to have failed with more than profitable PIK ltd did with less.
The year round FR traffic was lost when EDI came on stream, however a large summer program us still flown to many sun destinations. PIK, like many airports is highly seasonal. It is so again, the challenge is to make that pay. Infratil seem to have failed with more than profitable PIK ltd did with less.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 18th Nov 2012 at 10:13.
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Perhaps I was a little flippant in saying the odd mil div but the point isthis brings very little revenue in compared to commercial flying. PIK is in a viciouscircle; what high st. company wants to open in a place which a. has seenpassenger numbers drop year on year since 2007 and b. needs a major facelift c.the whole future is uncertain. The place is in dire need of significantinvestment or else things will get worse and worse (as the stats show). Sure ithas some Ryanair hangars and the US utilise the facilities on stop-overs to theMiddle-East but is that enough to keep it open- nope! The owners have said asmuch and if they pull the plug then it all goes. Incidentally Gannet operatenorth side almost independently anyway so they will be no factor in thedecision-making.
The idea of a smaller, modern, purpose made terminal makes sense as does amuseum if funding was ever made available. It is sad to see PIK this way and itdoes have some positives such as the rail link but there is no denying it is ona very slippery slope.
The idea of a smaller, modern, purpose made terminal makes sense as does amuseum if funding was ever made available. It is sad to see PIK this way and itdoes have some positives such as the rail link but there is no denying it is ona very slippery slope.
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The business plan was never to make money off Ryanair, that much was clear. Profits were to come from ancillaries such as retail rent. However under Infratil, the lean and competitive cost base has gone up. Hence when PIK became more seasonal, the profits hit the buffers! The business wasn't as adapatable as it used to be in the post BAA days.
btw Have Infratil said they will close if they can't sell? I don't think that has been said, can you link to the statement?
btw Have Infratil said they will close if they can't sell? I don't think that has been said, can you link to the statement?
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A local MP is asking for the airport to be sold for '£1' to give an investor the opportunity to spend much needed cash on improvements ...
Infratil have recently downgraded their valuation of PIK it has been reduced to justn25% of its valuation back in March 2011... sadly if that decline continues the MP will be correct.
Infratil have recently downgraded their valuation of PIK it has been reduced to justn25% of its valuation back in March 2011... sadly if that decline continues the MP will be correct.
Last edited by avturboy; 18th Nov 2012 at 12:33.
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If no one wants it as a going concern, is there any impediment at all to closure of the airfield and selling off the land to make something back?
Curious if there was any agreement in the sale to Infratil.
Curious if there was any agreement in the sale to Infratil.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 18th Nov 2012 at 15:46.
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I frequently used to drive fast the railway station at EGPK, where a work-colleague would alight from a train originating at Glasgow. Unfortunately, I could not give my colleague a lift to our workplace as the lay-by at the station is for buses only. The local McPlod were often in attendance to enforce this rule. I could not pick my colleague up from the terminal as I believe this would incur a 'parking' fee. Perhaps these charges/lack of interchange facilities are a small factor in the lack of folks moving through the airport?
It is a well-used airfield for crew-training, with met conditions which are often quite challenging. I don't know how much income this activaty generates though.
It is a well-used airfield for crew-training, with met conditions which are often quite challenging. I don't know how much income this activaty generates though.
Last edited by ZOOKER; 18th Nov 2012 at 19:35.
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SOE - You asked - "is there any impediment at all to closure of the airfield and selling off the land to make something back?" It would seem that this is unlikely to happen certainly in the short to medium term. Infratil's 'master plan' was to sell off Runway 21/03 for industrial use but this planning bid has been totally rejected by the Planning Department of South Ayrshire Council by all accounts. The local community has great pride in PIK and the council have stated that after great consideration the selling off of the secondary runway would be detrimental to the future of the airport.
ZOOKER - 9/11 Put paid to virtually all drop-offs close to airport terminals and most airports in the UK do charge to drop off where they can. Sign of the times I'm afraid. I think at PIK you get 10 minutes free to drop off and pick people up - not a lot of time but it can be done.
In terms of crew training my observations are that the most frequent 'trainers; at present are the RAF, Army Air Corps and the USAF whilst on the civil side, FlyBe, Ryanair and Loganair are often seen. KLM used to be fairly frequent users but haven't seen them for a while although to be fair I spend 80% of my time outside Scotland at present.
ZOOKER - 9/11 Put paid to virtually all drop-offs close to airport terminals and most airports in the UK do charge to drop off where they can. Sign of the times I'm afraid. I think at PIK you get 10 minutes free to drop off and pick people up - not a lot of time but it can be done.
In terms of crew training my observations are that the most frequent 'trainers; at present are the RAF, Army Air Corps and the USAF whilst on the civil side, FlyBe, Ryanair and Loganair are often seen. KLM used to be fairly frequent users but haven't seen them for a while although to be fair I spend 80% of my time outside Scotland at present.