Aurigny Air Services
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GBALU53
Did Aurigny have a Lsd BAe 146 from titan once before? and is that the new name for Flybe Flybe Connect
I think Aurigny could add more new routes like NCL and EDI etc
James
Did Aurigny have a Lsd BAe 146 from titan once before? and is that the new name for Flybe Flybe Connect
I think Aurigny could add more new routes like NCL and EDI etc James
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Titan Aircraft
They have used the Bae146 on a number of occasions when they have had tech ATRs.
I think the Summer of 2005 for July and August they had the aircraft doing schedule flights for the July and August operating Stansted-Guernsey-Manchester-Guernsey-Stansted for the weekends.
I think the Summer of 2005 for July and August they had the aircraft doing schedule flights for the July and August operating Stansted-Guernsey-Manchester-Guernsey-Stansted for the weekends.
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Aurigny is happy with ATRs and will stick to it
The Shed's going off line because it would have to get EGPWS to be able to continue after the 31st of December 2006 due to CAA regulation.
More ATRs are coming both on the Air Wales owned Aurigny operated 42s charter program that will be based in Southend and in GCI/JER to have one more ATR 72 to turn in maintenance and do more flying when needed.
The fact that Bae 146 have been wet leased on occasions to fulfill needs on the line when some aircraft had gone tech is not a sign that Aurigny would start a 146 operation.
The Bae 146 is an old machine now, it is not as fuel efficient as the ATR... far from it! And most of the 146 existing are going to be sent to recycling to build cans of soda in few years time at Flybe! (they are progressively replaced there by Embraer jets as the RJX program was abandoned)
Just a comparison that speaks for itself.... One hour of ATR is 600kg of fuel...
One hour of CRJ (modern regional jet, unlike the 146...) is around 2000 kg of fuel....
That's why ATR's so successfull and that's why a government of a banking country like GCI will not diperse its investments in types of machines that would prove being too expensive to run on its vital links to England.
But of course anyone could add good arguments to this!
What's bad about the ATR?
More ATRs are coming both on the Air Wales owned Aurigny operated 42s charter program that will be based in Southend and in GCI/JER to have one more ATR 72 to turn in maintenance and do more flying when needed.
The fact that Bae 146 have been wet leased on occasions to fulfill needs on the line when some aircraft had gone tech is not a sign that Aurigny would start a 146 operation.
The Bae 146 is an old machine now, it is not as fuel efficient as the ATR... far from it! And most of the 146 existing are going to be sent to recycling to build cans of soda in few years time at Flybe! (they are progressively replaced there by Embraer jets as the RJX program was abandoned)
Just a comparison that speaks for itself.... One hour of ATR is 600kg of fuel...
One hour of CRJ (modern regional jet, unlike the 146...) is around 2000 kg of fuel....
That's why ATR's so successfull and that's why a government of a banking country like GCI will not diperse its investments in types of machines that would prove being too expensive to run on its vital links to England.
But of course anyone could add good arguments to this!
What's bad about the ATR?
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Three for starters
1. Crap in crosswinds
2. Noise
3. Turboprops are seen by most punters as old and outdated
The 146 is a superb aircraft and if you ask most pax they would rather see 4 jets then 2 old! props.
p.s I have flown an ATR 42
1. Crap in crosswinds
2. Noise
3. Turboprops are seen by most punters as old and outdated
The 146 is a superb aircraft and if you ask most pax they would rather see 4 jets then 2 old! props.
p.s I have flown an ATR 42
What exactly is behind Aurigny's "charter programme that will be based in Southend"?
It seems odd to use your AOC to operate two aircraft (one pax, one freighter) which wear the fully livery of a defunct airline (Air Wales) and which are marketed by a third party (Flightline) who will also supply the cabain crew. What does Aurigny really get out of this arrangement? If they wanted to expand their charter ops and establish a London-area base, why not run it as a full-on Aurigny operation?
It seems odd to use your AOC to operate two aircraft (one pax, one freighter) which wear the fully livery of a defunct airline (Air Wales) and which are marketed by a third party (Flightline) who will also supply the cabain crew. What does Aurigny really get out of this arrangement? If they wanted to expand their charter ops and establish a London-area base, why not run it as a full-on Aurigny operation?
Noflybywire,
Saying it's crap in crosswind is abolutely NOT true.
Having flown on the ATR all series for nearly 4000 hours I have to say that the ATR is in fact very good in cross wind.
Of those types I've flown I would anytime prefer the ATR when the crosswind exceeds 40kts.
By the way the new 500's are not noisy at all.
Point 3 however I agree with.
TFCM
Saying it's crap in crosswind is abolutely NOT true.
Having flown on the ATR all series for nearly 4000 hours I have to say that the ATR is in fact very good in cross wind.
Of those types I've flown I would anytime prefer the ATR when the crosswind exceeds 40kts.
By the way the new 500's are not noisy at all.
Point 3 however I agree with.
TFCM
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The Flying Coke Man
The Aircraft design is not the best for crosswinds for starters narrow track undercarriage.
The wing design is shaped similar to the shorts design like a plank of wood.
When the aircraft is on the ground and you are in the aircraft when there is strong winds it feels like you are on the high seas in a force ten gale it rocks a lot due to the narrow undercarriage.
The Aircraft design is not the best for crosswinds for starters narrow track undercarriage.
The wing design is shaped similar to the shorts design like a plank of wood.
When the aircraft is on the ground and you are in the aircraft when there is strong winds it feels like you are on the high seas in a force ten gale it rocks a lot due to the narrow undercarriage.
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1. Who is crap in crosswinds? It's easy to point at the plane!
2. It's certainly not as bad as a Trislander and people using Aurigny being used to the Tri have invested in earplugs since a long time. + for a 1 hour Journey it's allright for the service and price you get.
At least Aurigny on special circumstances tries to get you to your destination which is not always easy in foggy weather like in Guernsey... I've seen holding trying to get to GUR for 2 hours... then getting to JER... transfering pax to hotel and trying again next morning and finally getting everybody in GUR as soon as it was possible... while other having travelled with another company were still at the departure point and had to pay for there own hotel...
This is typical of what a Guernsey vital link to UK should be... certainly not a cheap service... but just the best service for a reasonable price... all made possible by day after day fuel efficiency provided by ATR!
3. Turboprops are seen by most investors as a fuel efficient good alternative to jets on regional routes... And Guernsey is an Investors and Banker country.
Not a country of young inexperienced pilots willing to get on a Top Gun machine... Yeah you know what i'm talking about! That old Matcho thing... bigger noiser but hey... that's a Jet so that's better so let's kill the old prop thing cause it doesn't fit with my Top gun leather flying jacket with my little sunglasses! Let's be honest one second: ATR is a compromise offering cost efficient fuel efficient solutions. Dash 8 Q400 is another compromise... not as good on short hopper hauls but all right for bit longer flights eventhough it's too much fuel burn for me on a less than a hour flight time.
Comment about Ps: you talk you've flown the ATR 42... well you know they improved a bit on the Noise aspect for the 72.... and the 72-500 is even better!
By the way... i flew the 42 5 days or 6 days a week for quite a while and i fly the 72 now and my earing is still perfect... some guys tell me the ATRs are noisy and put the full audio bass booster system in the cars... I quite don't believe in the quality of the earing they have!
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tyfilou comments
For someone to come from so far away and have outstanding support for Aurigny seem strange.
The airline has over the years gone through many a time warp, and are still in one on some occasions, the apron strings still seem attached to the northern rock, the locals know where that is, but for the outsiders will have to work that one out.
The Channel Islands have seen many an opperator with the flying baguette coming down the approach with a good cross wind and the landing looks interesting.
Jersey had two ATR72s based for a number of years and when they were operating in crosswinds compared to there U.K. based counter parts you would see they could handlle the aircraft better as they would be doing more cross wind landings by being based in the Channel Islands than the rest of there company pilots.
We also understand that the company is trying to source another ATR72 for the new year this must have something to do with the end of the Shed in the Channel Islands??
For someone to come from so far away and have outstanding support for Aurigny seem strange.
The airline has over the years gone through many a time warp, and are still in one on some occasions, the apron strings still seem attached to the northern rock, the locals know where that is, but for the outsiders will have to work that one out.
The Channel Islands have seen many an opperator with the flying baguette coming down the approach with a good cross wind and the landing looks interesting.
Jersey had two ATR72s based for a number of years and when they were operating in crosswinds compared to there U.K. based counter parts you would see they could handlle the aircraft better as they would be doing more cross wind landings by being based in the Channel Islands than the rest of there company pilots.
We also understand that the company is trying to source another ATR72 for the new year this must have something to do with the end of the Shed in the Channel Islands??
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This SLF is perfectly happy with the ATR - beats Flybe's cramped 146 on the run to LGW - and is only about 5~10 minutes slower. Aurigny also seem to be first on the ground in the event of fog - you can usually count on them getting in ahead of flybe (and well ahead of BA when they used to operate). Sitting behind a Trislander pilot one day I complimented her on her nifty cross-wind landing - she smiled and said 'I get lots of practice!'
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tyfilou comments
For someone to come from so far away and have outstanding support for Aurigny seem strange.
The airline has over the years gone through many a time warp, and are still in one on some occasions, the apron strings still seem attached to the northern rock, the locals know where that is, but for the outsiders will have to work that one out.
The Channel Islands have seen many an opperator with the flying baguette coming down the approach with a good cross wind and the landing looks interesting.
Jersey had two ATR72s based for a number of years and when they were operating in crosswinds compared to there U.K. based counter parts you would see they could handlle the aircraft better as they would be doing more cross wind landings by being based in the Channel Islands than the rest of there company pilots.
We also understand that the company is trying to source another ATR72 for the new year this must have something to do with the end of the Shed in the Channel Islands??
For someone to come from so far away and have outstanding support for Aurigny seem strange.
The airline has over the years gone through many a time warp, and are still in one on some occasions, the apron strings still seem attached to the northern rock, the locals know where that is, but for the outsiders will have to work that one out.
The Channel Islands have seen many an opperator with the flying baguette coming down the approach with a good cross wind and the landing looks interesting.
Jersey had two ATR72s based for a number of years and when they were operating in crosswinds compared to there U.K. based counter parts you would see they could handlle the aircraft better as they would be doing more cross wind landings by being based in the Channel Islands than the rest of there company pilots.
We also understand that the company is trying to source another ATR72 for the new year this must have something to do with the end of the Shed in the Channel Islands??
Well maybe i'm a normand that went a bit outside of normandy to get back to it.... You know just to get out a bit and look at the world and get valuable experience around our big rocky planet... not to stay looking at your own chain to the local northern rock... it gave me a bit of open minded culture about people coming from other cultures! You should try it as it helps to start and enjoy the people around... just breathe by the nose cause after all xenophobia starts at your own doorstep with no welcome mat but it's never too late to put a good one there!
And you know... aicrafts make you travel and meet people around and sometimes change of horizon quickly from the inuits to the africans to the asian and then back home and i enjoyed them all... (more or less but mainly positively.)
The arrival of a new ATR 72 in Aurigny is needed by the amount of flying and the need for one ATR to roll out of the hangar when another one rolls in to give a bit of air to the maintenance guys that are doing a fantastic job to keep it going safely but could not do more and keep the pace on the next buisy summer season.
Last edited by tyfilou; 26th Nov 2006 at 17:48.
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Spare ATR
tyfilu
You stated they need a spare aircraft as one comes out the hangar another goes in.
Maybe you have not got the full picture so lets show you a bit more of it.
One ATR72 does the Jersey-Bournemouth-Jersey mail at least five nights a week.
The aircraft departs Jersey approx 1940 and returns 0530 the following mirning a normally sits on the ground all day for fourteen hours unless it needs to position to Guernsey to pick up another ATR schedules due unserviabilty.
Is this a good commercial operation having an aircraft on the ground for so long or is it another one of M.H. mail contracts that we must not use the aircraft, does the S of G know what is happening with there airline, do they get the full picture.
I am not an accountant but an aircraft like that I would think should be doing day flying with four to six sectors at least.
Once the Shorts 360 goes at the end of this year things might change and they may use the mail ATR to do a morning Jersey to Guernsey sector and Guernsey-Jersey late afternoon so would do some sectors out of Guernsey during the day good commercial idea??
You stated they need a spare aircraft as one comes out the hangar another goes in.
Maybe you have not got the full picture so lets show you a bit more of it.
One ATR72 does the Jersey-Bournemouth-Jersey mail at least five nights a week.
The aircraft departs Jersey approx 1940 and returns 0530 the following mirning a normally sits on the ground all day for fourteen hours unless it needs to position to Guernsey to pick up another ATR schedules due unserviabilty.
Is this a good commercial operation having an aircraft on the ground for so long or is it another one of M.H. mail contracts that we must not use the aircraft, does the S of G know what is happening with there airline, do they get the full picture.
I am not an accountant but an aircraft like that I would think should be doing day flying with four to six sectors at least.
Once the Shorts 360 goes at the end of this year things might change and they may use the mail ATR to do a morning Jersey to Guernsey sector and Guernsey-Jersey late afternoon so would do some sectors out of Guernsey during the day good commercial idea??
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Whatever one's opinion of MH he is financially very astute. Under normal circumstances I would expect to see a short-haul a/c being operated for 9 ~10 hours per day to be profitable. I would imagine that the contract is sufficiently lucrative that this is not a 'must' in this instance. In any case, are you sure that the aircraft sits there all day every day? I'm sure the S of G are pretty much in the picture and are happy (ish) with their investment.
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anotherbit of picture you're missing...
The aircraft sitting on the ground in Jersey "all day" is brought back to guernsey for additional flights during summer season on the passenger routes.... and is there as a standby aircraft when problems happens with the other 2 ones...
and in winter, the cargo is not only to Bournemouth at night... a bit more than that in fact... and yes it must be lucrative!
and in winter, the cargo is not only to Bournemouth at night... a bit more than that in fact... and yes it must be lucrative!
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Aurigny and 2007
Well Stepclimb Interesting it is
iInteresting to look at that web sight, it tells a lot of information, the web site is www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/
Some of the articles stated, they are about to get another ATR72-500, if they get the Jersey- Bournemouth mail contract renewed and hopefully the Guernsey-Bournemouth one , they will be getting two more ATR72s.
From what I have picked up in conversation that Aurigny was interested in Air Atlantiques ATR72 G-HERM which is a passenger aircraft, it has air stairs in the front door so no good for freighting?? this might tie in with the interest by having talks to get the Jersey-Stansted back??
With Air Contractors going into the bigger capicity market with Boeing 737QC aircraft, it does seem there ATR fleet will be going and opening several doors out of Bournemouth for the Mail contracts and possible the four times a week freight runs down to the Islands.
Interesting times ahead for the Channel Islands Airline and not opening a big river to swim in??
iInteresting to look at that web sight, it tells a lot of information, the web site is www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/
Some of the articles stated, they are about to get another ATR72-500, if they get the Jersey- Bournemouth mail contract renewed and hopefully the Guernsey-Bournemouth one , they will be getting two more ATR72s.
From what I have picked up in conversation that Aurigny was interested in Air Atlantiques ATR72 G-HERM which is a passenger aircraft, it has air stairs in the front door so no good for freighting?? this might tie in with the interest by having talks to get the Jersey-Stansted back??
With Air Contractors going into the bigger capicity market with Boeing 737QC aircraft, it does seem there ATR fleet will be going and opening several doors out of Bournemouth for the Mail contracts and possible the four times a week freight runs down to the Islands.
Interesting times ahead for the Channel Islands Airline and not opening a big river to swim in??
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Dinard
Aurigny are to start the Jersey-Dinard service again in the new year.
Would have at a guess the start of the Summer schedules.
Do not know yet on times or how often anyone have any ides??
It would only be a Trislander but thats better than nothing.
Would have at a guess the start of the Summer schedules.
Do not know yet on times or how often anyone have any ides??
It would only be a Trislander but thats better than nothing.
Cost Cutting
Aurigny are to embark on another round of cost cutting. The JER ticket desk is marked for closure in the very near future - Jan has been mentioned. Also rumoured around JER & GCI is the total closure of inter island routes. If this company cannot make money on these routes then the management should be sacked & a new team bought in who can. Remember, it is the Guernsey tax payer who owns this airline & deserves a return.
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Is there not a combination of things going on??
The ticket desk needs to go, due to the changes of the Jersey Airport departure hall security changes, with the ticket desk being part of a refreshment outlet??
The ticket desk will be relocated to one of the check in desks??
There seems to be a lot of changes going on at the moment with Aurigny?
There is talk going on that they are taking on the Dinard route again??
Would some of these rumours to the demise of the ticket desk point to the company heading towards a tickless airline??
The ticket desk needs to go, due to the changes of the Jersey Airport departure hall security changes, with the ticket desk being part of a refreshment outlet??
The ticket desk will be relocated to one of the check in desks??
There seems to be a lot of changes going on at the moment with Aurigny?
There is talk going on that they are taking on the Dinard route again??
Would some of these rumours to the demise of the ticket desk point to the company heading towards a tickless airline??