Wizzair
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Capacity is slowing being increased at Luton with regards to slots, stands and the terminal. It is debatable why Wizz would want to operate any services through Southend but we will have to wait and see.
While Southend is clearly unrestricted with regard to slots, the airport can only be described as marginal with is short, narrow CAT 1 runway. While Wizz operate most of their departures from the intersections of Luton's runway, which is similar to Southend's total length, when the weather conditions are not ideal Wizz will backtrack.
While Southend is clearly unrestricted with regard to slots, the airport can only be described as marginal with is short, narrow CAT 1 runway. While Wizz operate most of their departures from the intersections of Luton's runway, which is similar to Southend's total length, when the weather conditions are not ideal Wizz will backtrack.
Last edited by LTNman; 8th Aug 2017 at 08:41.
LTNman
While what you say is true of SEN you can be sure that Wizzair have fully appraised SEN's facilities. As far as the backtrack at LTN is concerned it may be that they prefer to continue using Flex thrust settings rather than TOGA whereas TOGA is the norm for the A320 at SEN.
While what you say is true of SEN you can be sure that Wizzair have fully appraised SEN's facilities. As far as the backtrack at LTN is concerned it may be that they prefer to continue using Flex thrust settings rather than TOGA whereas TOGA is the norm for the A320 at SEN.
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Any operators using SEN with 180 seater A-320s with 90% load factor on 2+ hrs routes? The loads on current flights are nowhere close to the needs of Wizz.
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Expressflight...OMG that PMI old chestnut yet again....Anyone can fill a plane down to PMI from any departure `drome especially at present with some popular sunny destinations being out of bounds or "doubtful" with political tensions & if any destination at all is a "classic" from SEN for the older generations in the Southend area it is yer PMI...I think TBSC is referring to the normal Wizz city destinations.He also monitors Wizz closely....
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I quite agree. Both SEN and the airline would have been doing research into the catchment areas and as an alternative to "north of London", so I am sure two or three carefully selected destinations could succeed.
southside bobby
It might help if you actually read the post from TBSC before having your customary blast at me.
He specifically asked whether are there "Any operators using SEN with 180-seater A320s with 90% load factor on 2+ hours routes?" I answered his question quoting one example which exceeds his parameters.
I know you would be overjoyed if the A320 could be shown not to be able to operate effectively to many of Wizzair's potential destinations from SEN but that is not the case. Bad luck...
It might help if you actually read the post from TBSC before having your customary blast at me.
He specifically asked whether are there "Any operators using SEN with 180-seater A320s with 90% load factor on 2+ hours routes?" I answered his question quoting one example which exceeds his parameters.
I know you would be overjoyed if the A320 could be shown not to be able to operate effectively to many of Wizzair's potential destinations from SEN but that is not the case. Bad luck...
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LTNman....I still feel as I stated PMI is classic & easy territory (pun intended) from SEN for the town of Southend & the vicinity itself...(some will also remember Tom Hill still as does STN)..LTN is perhaps a different kettle of fish for PMI with far more choice/variety & it always has been the case....Without the analysis (tho you have mentioned public transport) LTN`s appeal to WZZ customers is not so readily transferrable for SEN certainly as TBSC queries to the 90`s+ load factor on any worthwhile frequency & anything else shouldn't be doing it for WZZ...Are you conflating 2 sets of stats for PMI..I am talking load factor & perhaps you are stating the total pax numbers from LTN ranks it as it`s 13th busiest destination..two different things..I would wager the load factor tho is high...hence my point anyone from anywhere can fill a PMI certainly this Summer..
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It was a genuine question as a quick look on SEN traffic today did not show any aircraft bigger than an A319 including the EZY Palma flight. Tomorrow it will be a 320 but there are 30+ free seats to chose from (no clue if there is a lid on it or they try to sell all seats).
SEN-PMI is 1346 km as the crow flies which means that it's closer than the majority of the Wizz bases (except PRG, POZ, WRO and KTW) let alone the other potential destinations further east/south currently operated from LTN.
SEN-PMI is 1346 km as the crow flies which means that it's closer than the majority of the Wizz bases (except PRG, POZ, WRO and KTW) let alone the other potential destinations further east/south currently operated from LTN.
TBSC
I'm sure I've seen loads of 186 pax on the PMI route and I'm pretty sure they do sell all seats. The A320 is actually generally less payload/range restricted than the A319 out of SEN. I did read your original question as relating to possible payload restrictions on the Wizzair routes, rather than the potential demand as other posters seem to have thought you meant.
I'm sure I've seen loads of 186 pax on the PMI route and I'm pretty sure they do sell all seats. The A320 is actually generally less payload/range restricted than the A319 out of SEN. I did read your original question as relating to possible payload restrictions on the Wizzair routes, rather than the potential demand as other posters seem to have thought you meant.
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Expressflight....TBSC was asking the question but also went on to state that the loads on current flights from SEN with similar equipment to WZZ "are nowhere close to the needs of WZZ"...he informs of the load factor required for their stage lengths... my posting relates to PMI always being put forward as the bell weather here with my conclusion that PMI is not so valid for the reasons stated..Anyways..tongue in cheek...you write.. "to many of Wizzair`s potential destinations from SEN".....blimey how many are you expecting?..The future of the industry throughout the SE will certainly be "interesting"...So no;good luck..
As you say, "Oooops", but not to worry as you weren't alone in thinking he meant market demand.
Let's all wait now to see if anything (or nothing) comes of this Wizzair story shall we?
Let's all wait now to see if anything (or nothing) comes of this Wizzair story shall we?
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I wouldn't worry about market demand, those people need to fly, period. The millions travelling to LTN to fly with Wizz might as well venture to Southend. LTN in its actual state is not a seamless operation to put it mildly hence the odd flights out of STN and BOH earlier and from LGW (and to lesser extent from BHX and BRS) recently. IMHO the short runway and the low category ILS of SEN (vs. the UK weather) are bigger risks than having enough passengers.
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Wizz does seem to have a love love relationship with Luton. One can speculate why but it does give them the flexibility to move crews and aircraft around. They never seem to have a problem in filling their aircraft at Luton and more flights per day to a single destination gives passengers more flexibility to pick a time to suit their requirements thus increasing demand.
They now have bit the bullet and showed their commitment by basing 3 aircraft at Luton flying new routes including to non Eastern European countries. There is a valid question why they would need Southend when Southend falls within Luton's 2 hour catchment area unless Luton ran out of slots but with more capacity for next summer it will help Wizz if required.
The key questions are would flights from Southend give Wizz access to new passengers that would not trek to Bedfordshire. Does Wizz operate from any short field runways at the moment? I would have thought not as most of the airports they fly from that nobody has heard of are ex military bases with long runways.
They now have bit the bullet and showed their commitment by basing 3 aircraft at Luton flying new routes including to non Eastern European countries. There is a valid question why they would need Southend when Southend falls within Luton's 2 hour catchment area unless Luton ran out of slots but with more capacity for next summer it will help Wizz if required.
The key questions are would flights from Southend give Wizz access to new passengers that would not trek to Bedfordshire. Does Wizz operate from any short field runways at the moment? I would have thought not as most of the airports they fly from that nobody has heard of are ex military bases with long runways.
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Wizz does seem to have a love love relationship with Luton. One can speculate why but it does give them the flexibility to move crews and aircraft around. They never seem to have a problem in filling their aircraft at Luton and more flights per day to a single destination gives passengers more flexibility to pick a time to suit their requirements thus increasing demand.
They now have bit the bullet and showed their commitment by basing 3 aircraft at Luton flying new routes including to non Eastern European countries. There is a valid question why they would need Southend when Southend falls within Luton's 2 hour catchment area unless Luton ran out of slots but with more capacity for next summer it will help Wizz if required.
The key questions are would flights from Southend give Wizz access to new passengers that would not trek to Bedfordshire. Does Wizz operate from any short field runways at the moment? I would have thought not as most of the airports they fly from that nobody has heard of are ex military bases with long runways.
They now have bit the bullet and showed their commitment by basing 3 aircraft at Luton flying new routes including to non Eastern European countries. There is a valid question why they would need Southend when Southend falls within Luton's 2 hour catchment area unless Luton ran out of slots but with more capacity for next summer it will help Wizz if required.
The key questions are would flights from Southend give Wizz access to new passengers that would not trek to Bedfordshire. Does Wizz operate from any short field runways at the moment? I would have thought not as most of the airports they fly from that nobody has heard of are ex military bases with long runways.
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I would be surprised if the management at SEN had not invited Wizz for a day out at the seaside. I would be even more surprised if that invitation had been declined. And at such a meeting both sides would have explored the possibility of doing business together and got to understand each other's position. This may well have led to Wizz carrying out a formal assessment of the airport. Why not? If they are not ready now, It could become a useful option a couple of years down the line.
@LTNman, Dortmund is probably one of the shorter/shortest runways they operate from. 1700m which is only 76m shorter than 08 at Luton from the current intersection. No-where as near as Southend and with them moving to A321's I personally can't see it. They haven't even expanded from their single solitary service at Gatwick which everyone was making a song and dance about a couple of years ago.
planedrive
I'm puzzled by your comment "No-where as near as SEN ...." when comparing SEN's runway length to that at Dortmund which you say is 1700m. The context of your comment seemed to suggest that SEN was less than that which is incorrect, but perhaps I mistook your meaning. Maybe I should clarify its physical characteristics:
SEN is limited to declaring ASDA or TODA to below 1800m because its runway width limits it to being a Code 3 classification airfield; thus the TODA on both runways is declared as 1799m. In fact the paved runway is 1856m in length plus a Starter Extension of 135m on 05. LDA is declared as 1604m on both runways but the pavement continues beyond this in both cases. Runway 05 has 240m of paved runway beyond that (declared as a RESA) while 23 has 135m of Starter Extension which is part of the total 227m RESA. In reality this additional pavement is used by all landing A320s because the aircraft rolls out along it to clear 05 via taxiway Alpha or to use the turning circle on the Starter Extension to backtrack to Charlie or Bravo to clear the runway after landing on 23.
Obviously aircraft weights are limited by the declared TODAs of 1799m (or ASDAs of 1739m) and the declared LDAs of 1604m but not many airfields offer the assuring sight of extra pavement beyond these distances. Any operator considering operations from a new airfield will send a technical team to assess the facilities and I'm sure they would be quite pleased to see extra lengths of pavement.
So while SEN's runway is certainly on the short side in comparison to most major airfields, in reality it is not quite as short as the TODA and LDA figures would suggest at first glance.
I'm puzzled by your comment "No-where as near as SEN ...." when comparing SEN's runway length to that at Dortmund which you say is 1700m. The context of your comment seemed to suggest that SEN was less than that which is incorrect, but perhaps I mistook your meaning. Maybe I should clarify its physical characteristics:
SEN is limited to declaring ASDA or TODA to below 1800m because its runway width limits it to being a Code 3 classification airfield; thus the TODA on both runways is declared as 1799m. In fact the paved runway is 1856m in length plus a Starter Extension of 135m on 05. LDA is declared as 1604m on both runways but the pavement continues beyond this in both cases. Runway 05 has 240m of paved runway beyond that (declared as a RESA) while 23 has 135m of Starter Extension which is part of the total 227m RESA. In reality this additional pavement is used by all landing A320s because the aircraft rolls out along it to clear 05 via taxiway Alpha or to use the turning circle on the Starter Extension to backtrack to Charlie or Bravo to clear the runway after landing on 23.
Obviously aircraft weights are limited by the declared TODAs of 1799m (or ASDAs of 1739m) and the declared LDAs of 1604m but not many airfields offer the assuring sight of extra pavement beyond these distances. Any operator considering operations from a new airfield will send a technical team to assess the facilities and I'm sure they would be quite pleased to see extra lengths of pavement.
So while SEN's runway is certainly on the short side in comparison to most major airfields, in reality it is not quite as short as the TODA and LDA figures would suggest at first glance.