BACitiExpress The final solution!
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Re: BACitiExpress The final solution!
I have just received this from FlyBe, they have responded.
http://ebm.cheetahmail.com/c/tag/BDx...kbmTM/doc.html
http://ebm.cheetahmail.com/c/tag/BDx...kbmTM/doc.html
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Re: BACitiExpress The final solution!
Why's Willie giving it another 2 years? They should pull the plug sooner than that if this is the best they can come up with? Duo lasted barely a few weeks with this strategy, JetMagic not much longer.
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Re: BACitiExpress The final solution!
Originally Posted by akerosid
With four different types - EMB145, Dash 8, 146/ARJ and ATP, they're going to need to focus on fleet standardisation pretty darn quickly; the 737s will still be needed at Gatwick, so perhaps this is an opportunity for Embraer to prove the low cost credentials of the EMB170-190 series.
Alternatives? I don't think the 318 is an option and the 319 is probably too large; even though it will be a low cost operation, they probably don't want to be replacing a 50 seater with a 150 seater; a fleet of 190/195s, with Embraer taking back the 145s (and as much else as possible) might be the way forward.
Alternatives? I don't think the 318 is an option and the 319 is probably too large; even though it will be a low cost operation, they probably don't want to be replacing a 50 seater with a 150 seater; a fleet of 190/195s, with Embraer taking back the 145s (and as much else as possible) might be the way forward.
And DE assures us that the 170/190 is too heavy. What the hell he means by that I have no idea! Any flying chaps care to comment?
Not that we can have new aircraft, but it's nice to dream occasionally!
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Re: BACitiExpress The final solution!
brabazon
duo lasted a lot more than 'a few weeks' more like 6 months! and their main downfall was due to 1 of the 3 major investment companies pulling out and poor marketing and not on poor pax figures alone.
granted, their pax figures were low initially, but so are all new start ups? but they were increasing at a steady rate just before they ceased trading which showed there definately was/is a niche for a lower cost business class product.
as a major aviation magazine said, given another 6 months duo would have turned the corner but obviously we will never know.
imho ba-connect should follow the duo product and offer something unique a try and keep both the business and economy pax by providing a service that no other uk lo-co operator delivers.
i wish them all the best though as a change was urgently needed.
duo lasted a lot more than 'a few weeks' more like 6 months! and their main downfall was due to 1 of the 3 major investment companies pulling out and poor marketing and not on poor pax figures alone.
granted, their pax figures were low initially, but so are all new start ups? but they were increasing at a steady rate just before they ceased trading which showed there definately was/is a niche for a lower cost business class product.
as a major aviation magazine said, given another 6 months duo would have turned the corner but obviously we will never know.
imho ba-connect should follow the duo product and offer something unique a try and keep both the business and economy pax by providing a service that no other uk lo-co operator delivers.
i wish them all the best though as a change was urgently needed.
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Re: BACitiExpress The final solution!
Splash
OK Duo lasted more than a few weeks, but the fundamental problem is the higher seat costs of operating 50 seat regional jets compared to the 150 seaters of the LCCs and trying to offer similar fares. Basically the economics don't work and will get worse unless costs are cut dramatically - where? - and if fuel costs rise again.....
OK Duo lasted more than a few weeks, but the fundamental problem is the higher seat costs of operating 50 seat regional jets compared to the 150 seaters of the LCCs and trying to offer similar fares. Basically the economics don't work and will get worse unless costs are cut dramatically - where? - and if fuel costs rise again.....
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Re: BACitiExpress The final solution!
DUO wasn't a start up. It was a former BA franchisee (as Maersk UK and Birmingham European)who branched out up against the big boys with a meaningless silly name, a forgettable corporate identity and was as a management buy out, underfunded and vulnerable. It went bust. Big surprise to dreamers and marketing men everywhere.
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Re: BACitiExpress The final solution!
Originally Posted by brabazon
Why's Willie giving it another 2 years? They should pull the plug sooner than that if this is the best they can come up with? Duo lasted barely a few weeks with this strategy, JetMagic not much longer.
Re: BACitiExpress The final solution!
I see what is being said about no new fleet, but simply painting a new name down the side of the 145s and cutting out catering is going to do virtually nothing to help the BA costbase on these routes.
Just musing on that one, there could be an interesting project if someone felt adventurous. Mesaba (Northwest Airlink) is having its contract with NW for operation of the RJ85s terminated as they are "too expensive". They are, in fact, operated in 69-seat configuration because of Northwest's ALPA scope close instead of the 97 seats that you can get into an RJ85. Anyway, these RJ85s are being phased out. Coincidentally, Mesaba has 28 of them - exactly the same number as BA Connect has Embraer 145s.
One for one swap, anyone?
You'd move rapidly towards a much more efficient fleet and I'm sure that the running costs per seat of an RJ85 must be way below a 145. They would get more seats for all of these extra thousands of passengers to come flocking to BA Connect, and an aircraft capable of producing seats at lower cost than the current 145s. OK, there would be some sizeable transition costs but if you spread those over five years, it could work.
Just musing on that one, there could be an interesting project if someone felt adventurous. Mesaba (Northwest Airlink) is having its contract with NW for operation of the RJ85s terminated as they are "too expensive". They are, in fact, operated in 69-seat configuration because of Northwest's ALPA scope close instead of the 97 seats that you can get into an RJ85. Anyway, these RJ85s are being phased out. Coincidentally, Mesaba has 28 of them - exactly the same number as BA Connect has Embraer 145s.
One for one swap, anyone?
You'd move rapidly towards a much more efficient fleet and I'm sure that the running costs per seat of an RJ85 must be way below a 145. They would get more seats for all of these extra thousands of passengers to come flocking to BA Connect, and an aircraft capable of producing seats at lower cost than the current 145s. OK, there would be some sizeable transition costs but if you spread those over five years, it could work.
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Re: BACitiExpress The final solution!
Originally Posted by Flightrider
Mesaba (Northwest Airlink) is having its contract with NW for operation of the RJ85s terminated ... Mesaba has 28 of them ....
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Re: BACitiExpress The final solution!
No No No
RJ s are a horrible passenger experience, especially in the 3+3 configuration. Just awful.
EMB145s puny tiny.
DHC8 Surprisingly comfortable but god noisy.
Passengers might come back for a quick look especially if they can go somewhere for £25 but when they realise it's not British Airways after all and they experience the hardware on offer, they'll be going back to the £1.99 on a proper aircraft.
Plus a comedy moniker like BACON..
So disappointing...WW did a fine job of turning Aer Lingus round. Dublin has a smaller airport and catchment area than Manchester - would he have succeeded at EI if he'd been using EMBs and a pot of paint?
RJ s are a horrible passenger experience, especially in the 3+3 configuration. Just awful.
EMB145s puny tiny.
DHC8 Surprisingly comfortable but god noisy.
Passengers might come back for a quick look especially if they can go somewhere for £25 but when they realise it's not British Airways after all and they experience the hardware on offer, they'll be going back to the £1.99 on a proper aircraft.
Plus a comedy moniker like BACON..
So disappointing...WW did a fine job of turning Aer Lingus round. Dublin has a smaller airport and catchment area than Manchester - would he have succeeded at EI if he'd been using EMBs and a pot of paint?
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Re: BACitiExpress The final solution!
Rjs are a horrible crewing experience too!!it seems the only way everyone thinks this will work is by having bigger aircraft,which unless we have 737s from LGW,really isnt going to happen.Everyone else can see its not gonna work.so Why do WW and DE think it will?
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Re: BACitiExpress The final solution!
Originally Posted by tiggerific_69
it seems the only way everyone thinks this will work is by having bigger aircraft,which unless we have 737s from LGW,really isnt going to happen.Everyone else can see its not gonna work.so Why do WW and DE think it will?
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Re: BACitiExpress The final solution!
Many relevant comments made here that are very pertinent. Might it be time for WW to appoint an outside CEO for CX, not someone who will return to BA if the whole thing fails. Those of you that have seen todays 'Business' papers will see that BA is top of the Pension Dept mountain with one pundit sugesting that BA delares itself bankrupt. The size of the dept and the blind passion for achieving 10p in the £1.00 leaves CX on a very weak basis, for in the end WW will get shot of it if he can make money on a sale. Those of us that can look back to BRAL, Maersk and City Express (LGW) et al; Surely the staff were far more secure / BA earned much more in those days.
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Re: BACitiExpress The final solution!
Would anyone buy BACON? If so what would get for your money? Alternatively shut it down and then someone like Eastern could start operating some of the services!!