WATERFORD Airport
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CityJet operate ageing four engined Avro's as well as the seriously old Fokker aircraft which are no longer sustainable and contributing to there bulging losses - If they are that brainy enough to secure some kind of future I think they will be overlooking Waterford - There Cardiff routes particularly Glasgow and Paris I would give maybe 2 years.
Unless CityJet overhaul there fleet (new Bombardier CSeries springs to mind) they are going to keep going on a downward spiral - problem is who would invest such money, when being honest they don't exactly have the route portfolio to die for.
That is why there is an issue selling it, the airlines requires substantial investment and huge cost cutting.
Unless CityJet overhaul there fleet (new Bombardier CSeries springs to mind) they are going to keep going on a downward spiral - problem is who would invest such money, when being honest they don't exactly have the route portfolio to die for.
That is why there is an issue selling it, the airlines requires substantial investment and huge cost cutting.
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Let's hope we get news on a London service soon.
When is the runway extension completed & what size aircraft will it then be able to accommodate?
When is the runway extension completed & what size aircraft will it then be able to accommodate?
A) EIWF
B) 13/12/21 12:40 C) 14/03/21 16:00
E) ILS LLZ RWY 21 POSITION OF TRNSMITTING ANTENNA COORDINATES CHANGED TO 521039.1N 0070534.8W
They only have moved the ground based navigation equipment, I'd say it will take some time to get the rest of the funds needed. 1585M when finished so E190/195 sized type aircraft hopefully.
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Both Flybe & Aer Lingus Regional are out of the picture when it comes to a London service. Cityjet perhaps but would probably mean flying into London City. Is that viable?
How about Eastern Airways or perhaps BMI Regional?
How about Eastern Airways or perhaps BMI Regional?
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Every airline you guys are mentioning have to high of a cost base - You can rule out BMI Regional, CityJet and Eastern Airways - Aer Arann also. Wouldn't rule out Flybe, they've recently been granted permission to operate to Luton from Guernsey although they said they have no immediate plans to launch a route, so if the team at Waterford pitch well I'm sure Flybe would offer something.
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Surely the Waterford team must have made a strong pitch to Flybe whilst they had a presence at Luton to no avail? Now they've gone it is highly unlikely they would start a service though I agree it is (or was) the most logical solution for a new Waterford - London route.
I always thought the ideal would be an aircraft based at Waterford which could service Luton twice daily as well as the Birmingham & Manchester routings. However, I just can't see it happening any time soon though I hope I'm proved wrong.
I always thought the ideal would be an aircraft based at Waterford which could service Luton twice daily as well as the Birmingham & Manchester routings. However, I just can't see it happening any time soon though I hope I'm proved wrong.
For a route to be PSO eligible, it generally needs both airports to be on the territory of the same country. There are a few exceptions but these often involve political anomalies. Example are Stockholm-Mariehamn requested by Finland (Finland + Sweden came close to war in the 1920s over the Aaland Islands), or from Strasbourg to cities all over Europe, presumably because of all the European institutions in Strasbourg.
Loganair are flying Stansted-Dundee because both airports are in the same country (for now at least !), the route is possibly PSO eligible and Govt is prepared to chuck a load of money at the airline.
Donegal-Dublin also meets those criteria
Alas London-Waterford doesn't meet those criteria.
Loganair are flying Stansted-Dundee because both airports are in the same country (for now at least !), the route is possibly PSO eligible and Govt is prepared to chuck a load of money at the airline.
Donegal-Dublin also meets those criteria
Alas London-Waterford doesn't meet those criteria.
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 23rd Jan 2014 at 22:02.
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I dont see how operating WAT-STN would be any more difficult for them compared to their LSI-BGO route. Loganair have done "international" routes so I dont think the fact that WAT and STN are not technically in the same country would put them off.
My point is they are in the Irish market already. Anyway I was only saying they may be a possibility if Flybe didnt pick it up themselves
My point is they are in the Irish market already. Anyway I was only saying they may be a possibility if Flybe didnt pick it up themselves
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DUB-LDY was PSO but I suspect also allowed for political reasons - but WAT-LON would never be PSO. Loganair also operate CFN-GLA anyway, so they've absolutely no issues with running routes from Ireland to the UK, but only if they make sense.
I believe the extended runway would be sufficient for a weight restricted 738; but FR are not coming back regardless. FR got displeased with the limitations of the ~1800m runway at BFS, they would not appreciate the penalties to operate on ~1600m.
I believe the extended runway would be sufficient for a weight restricted 738; but FR are not coming back regardless. FR got displeased with the limitations of the ~1800m runway at BFS, they would not appreciate the penalties to operate on ~1600m.
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) but there is actually nothing in the regulation to limit PSOs to routes within a single country:
1. A Member State, following consultations with the other Member States concerned and after having informed the Commission, the airports concerned and air carriers operating on the route, may impose a public service obligation in respect of scheduled air services between an airport in the Community and an airport serving a peripheral or development region in its territory or on a thin route to any airport on its territory any such route being considered vital for the economic and social development of the region which the airport serves. That obligation shall be imposed only to the extent necessary to ensure on that route the minimum provision of scheduled air services satisfying fixed standards of continuity, regularity, pricing or minimum capacity, which air carriers would not assume if they were solely considering their commercial interest.
OK - I admit I'm wrong on the legal aspect. The last time I looked at formal EU texts my eyes recoiled in horror and then my brain went to sleep...
I maintain that in general, there would have to be something of an anomaly for a national Govt to want to subsidise a route to a different country. Then again, PSO routes are essentially for where the unfettered market isn't working as desired anyway, so PSO routes have a higher propensity to be anomalies already. Are the Irish Govt prepared to chuck money at a Waterford-London route ?
I maintain that in general, there would have to be something of an anomaly for a national Govt to want to subsidise a route to a different country. Then again, PSO routes are essentially for where the unfettered market isn't working as desired anyway, so PSO routes have a higher propensity to be anomalies already. Are the Irish Govt prepared to chuck money at a Waterford-London route ?
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DJ
In simple words pigs will fly before the Government will do anything for the city and the wider SE region. It's Dublin/Cork regions and West that the Government look after. I am not from the region but it's clear to see why it's in the current state. They have taken more only for they have being stopped by people but a penny won't be injected.
The route is viable without a PSO but Flybe were caught at a bad time and most airlines won't expand in current climate which is understandable.
In simple words pigs will fly before the Government will do anything for the city and the wider SE region. It's Dublin/Cork regions and West that the Government look after. I am not from the region but it's clear to see why it's in the current state. They have taken more only for they have being stopped by people but a penny won't be injected.
The route is viable without a PSO but Flybe were caught at a bad time and most airlines won't expand in current climate which is understandable.
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Its only a matter of time before there is a Waterford-London route again.
Don`t think the South East region is doing too badly with the Waterford airport runway extension albeit a very modest one. Should be at least 6,000ft to cater for 737/A320 jets.
There is currently no prospects of runway extensions in Cork or a new parallel runway in Dublin.
The SE also has 2 motorway projects at the tendering stage, the M11 Gorey to Enniscorthy motorway and the New Ross bypass.
The most neglected part of the country is the northwest!!
Don`t think the South East region is doing too badly with the Waterford airport runway extension albeit a very modest one. Should be at least 6,000ft to cater for 737/A320 jets.
There is currently no prospects of runway extensions in Cork or a new parallel runway in Dublin.
The SE also has 2 motorway projects at the tendering stage, the M11 Gorey to Enniscorthy motorway and the New Ross bypass.
The most neglected part of the country is the northwest!!
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It's hard to think beyond Flybe as the most obvious airline to operate a Waterford - London route. Hopefully once they're through their restructuring & have become settled they might be persuaded to start such a service. Luton seems the most logical 'London' airport, it was a popular choice in the past so why not again in the future?
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With the modest rwy length increase hopefully in place soon, would Aer Lingus to Gatwick on an A319 once daily be viable, similar to Knock. Would the A319 get off 1583m without load restrictions for a 1 hour flight? My guess is it would though not sure how what Aer Lingus policy on narrow runways would be.
I know morning and evening flights are the preferred option but that requires a based aircraft or at least a night stopper and with no viable solution to that forth coming as yet then maybe it might work. At least they would be free of Ryanairs clutches!
I know morning and evening flights are the preferred option but that requires a based aircraft or at least a night stopper and with no viable solution to that forth coming as yet then maybe it might work. At least they would be free of Ryanairs clutches!
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But why? The SE is currently one of the most economically depressed areas of the country. Adding a few metres to the runway is not going to change that. Cf same argument on the Cardiff thread.
There seems to be an obsession with "a London route" but why? Unless you live right in Waterford city, you're probably going to be closer to Cork or Dublin and those two airports will always have a better choice of flight times and prices. With the various London area airports (with the possible exception of Southend) making it clear they'll charge <50-seaters the same rates as larger a/c, Waterford-London will always be a high-fare, limited service route competing with two better options. Does anyone anywhere have any up-to-date data that supports demand for even a once-a-day service?
I happen to believe Waterford has great potential as a regional airport, provided it looks towards providing a range of different, much more imaginative services for inbound traffic rather than catering ever more desperately to the emigrant shuttle buses. However, that depends on people in catchment area also recognising that there are other markets and destinations than the UK and doing something to develop them. Answering their e-mails would be a good start.
There seems to be an obsession with "a London route" but why? Unless you live right in Waterford city, you're probably going to be closer to Cork or Dublin and those two airports will always have a better choice of flight times and prices. With the various London area airports (with the possible exception of Southend) making it clear they'll charge <50-seaters the same rates as larger a/c, Waterford-London will always be a high-fare, limited service route competing with two better options. Does anyone anywhere have any up-to-date data that supports demand for even a once-a-day service?
I happen to believe Waterford has great potential as a regional airport, provided it looks towards providing a range of different, much more imaginative services for inbound traffic rather than catering ever more desperately to the emigrant shuttle buses. However, that depends on people in catchment area also recognising that there are other markets and destinations than the UK and doing something to develop them. Answering their e-mails would be a good start.