HEATHROW
How much extra tax revenue does the British government get from non UK residents transitting through Heathrow? How many extra immigration officers/Pilots/Cabin Crew/Cleaners/Shop Workers/Mechanics/ATC/Caterers/Fuelers/Security/Baggage Handlers/Bus Drivers etc etc are employed because of them? How much Tax do they contribute to the UK economy?
The transit passengers fill say half the plane. The other half gets taken by O&D passengers from the local region. Neither flow would justify the density of flights on their own, but each supports the other and then there is an economic cascade process that rises from that, because the place gets so well connected internationally.
Granted, hubbing isn't universally popular - most passengers would prefer to fly direct, if such a service existed, rather than via a hub, but the point is that in many cases there probably won't be the demand to make a direct flight viable.
While some of Heathrow's current PR campaign is dire, bordering on disingenuous, they have actually made a rather good video explaining the dynamics of hubs, which should be required viewing for contributors to the debate:
Apart from the inexplicable reference to some place called "Dyce", wherever that is (it's actually the original name of what is now Aberdeen Airport).
Of course nothing in the video is specific to Heathrow, it would apply to UK plc's hub wherever that ends up being located.
Can some one confirm that the new T2 has been built without a baggage system and that every bag is conveyored to T1 for containerizing??
"Arriving baggage
Terminal 1's baggage system will process Terminal 2's departing and transfer baggage. To give passengers the reliability they expect, we're strengthening and upgrading the Terminal 1 baggage system so that it can handle Terminal 2 bags with ease. For example, we're replacing 17 of Terminal 1's hold-baggage screening machines.
Terminal 2's arriving baggage will be processed in Terminal 2. The spacious new baggage reclaim hall will contain eight international and two domestic carousels. They'll be easy to identify and easy to reach so that passengers can collect their bags for their onward journey.
The carousels will be installed during 2013, ready for passengers to use when it opens in 2014.
Departing baggage
In a later stage of development, we'll be building a new system for departing baggage in Terminal 2. This baggage system will incorporate new technologies to reduce manual handling and improve baggage delivery performance."
http://www.heathrowairport.com/stati...ochure_LHR.pdf
Paxing All Over The World
Why was T2 not built with associated baggage system for departures like any airport
Another is that new technology might be about to emerge and they want to wait for it to be ready.
or they just found a way to save money on this phase.
Many other possibilities are possible!
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What will happen to T!?
Returned from Dublin on tuesday, as I walked from the Irish pier to the domestic arrivals, knowing that Aer Lingus are moving to T2 soon, I remember thinking, this is probably the last time I will do this, however while T1 is scheduled to close (presumably sometime in the next 12 months) I assume that that the aircraft stands/Gates etc will remain even if the access is changed.
Can anyone provide more info?
Can anyone provide more info?
I remember thinking, this is probably the last time I will do this, however while T1 is scheduled to close (presumably sometime in the next 12 months) I assume that that the aircraft stands/Gates etc will remain even if the access is changed.
In due course the new T2 will expand northwards, in two phases, but the first of those isn't due to open until around 2030.
Uncle Pete
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Heathrow Slots
In the Sunday Times American Airlines has bought a pair of take-off and landing slots from Cyprus Airways for £20million.
It looks as though IAG got the deal of the century when they bought parts of the bmi group from LH
It looks as though IAG got the deal of the century when they bought parts of the bmi group from LH
for £20million
Some airlines make quite a bit of money by leasing some of their pairs. I'd love to know how much EI have made over the years from doing it.
20 million pounds is about the cost of 2 D checks on a widebody though, doesn't sound so bad when you put it like that eh?
20 million pounds is about the cost of 2 D checks on a widebody though, doesn't sound so bad when you put it like that eh?
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can you point me to an academic study proving this?
http://www.britishchambers.org.uk/as...b_Airports.pdf
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hardly unbiased I'm afraid - that's why I asked for ACADEMIC papers...........
"There is an enormous economic benefit to the whole region from being a hub location."
If you don't think that Heathrow's hub status brings benefits in terms of jobs and connectivity to the world to London and the wider region then I honestly feel you're denying a clear and apparent reality. The only winner if the anti Heathrow brigade wins will be Lufthansa / FRA, Air France / CDG and KLM / AMS.
Half the businesses I have worked for are located exactly where they are because we can get people in and out of Heathrow and into Europe at a decent pace, it's not rocket science.
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Is There A T2 Baggage Shambles Going Unreported?
Apologies if this is the wrong place to ask, or indeed if it's being covered elsehwere, but I did look (promise!) but couldn't find anything anywhere 
Has anyone got any update info about the current hold-luggage fiasco at T2?
I flew out of T2 yesterday afternoon as slc with Swiss to ZRH, and am still bagless 24 hours on, with bag just confirmed as still in LHR. (According to a somewhat stressed customer services assistant, virtually no baggage had made it to ZRH yesterday or Saturday on Swiss a/c.)
Is it just an unfortunate (for me) bijou Swiss/ZRH-related microshambles that's playing out, or is it on a larger scale but BAA have learned to manage the PR better since the T5 "opening"?
Has anyone got any update info about the current hold-luggage fiasco at T2?
I flew out of T2 yesterday afternoon as slc with Swiss to ZRH, and am still bagless 24 hours on, with bag just confirmed as still in LHR. (According to a somewhat stressed customer services assistant, virtually no baggage had made it to ZRH yesterday or Saturday on Swiss a/c.)
Is it just an unfortunate (for me) bijou Swiss/ZRH-related microshambles that's playing out, or is it on a larger scale but BAA have learned to manage the PR better since the T5 "opening"?
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T2 are still using the existing T1 baggage system, and Swiss temain in T1 until October (!) #confused
Having said that Swiss have been using T2B for over a year, usually Gate B47, (247L/247R) but more recently Gate B36 which is new. Not sure why that should make an impact aside from it's one Hell of a walk from T1....
Having said that Swiss have been using T2B for over a year, usually Gate B47, (247L/247R) but more recently Gate B36 which is new. Not sure why that should make an impact aside from it's one Hell of a walk from T1....
can you point me to an academic study proving this?
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But unless we are talking about the Boris's Island scenario, the issue is not the base level of activity and jobs. The prime choice is between a development at Gatwick with no taxpayer funding and a development at Heathrow with a significant public funding component. The issue is whether the extra benefits to the economy outside the perimeter fence of LHR3 justify that public funding contribution. Words like enormous and obvious don't really cut it. This is why the hub argument and trying to put some numbers to it is so important.
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"any enterprise supporting 70,000 or so jobs provides benefits that are apparent without requiring the help of academia to spell them out"
Hmmm......
The coal mines? Shipyards??? British Leyland???? The Civil Service?????
Just because it employs people doesn't mean it's a great idea
Hmmm......
The coal mines? Shipyards??? British Leyland???? The Civil Service?????
Just because it employs people doesn't mean it's a great idea
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You're right, there's nothing about the current baggage fiasco at T1/T2 anywhere on PPrune, or anywhere else. Except, that is, for a brief paragraph on the BBC News website which covered the Queens' official opening of the new T2/Queens terminal on Monday the 23rd. The brief report states there has been severe baggage problems in T1 with many passengers departing without their baggage.
The problems started on Saturday and continued all day Sunday. By Sunday evening there were reports of app. 25,000 bags having been left behind affecting all T1/T2 departures. Many flights departed T1/T2 with no hold baggage at all. Apparently, by Monday lunchtime the airlines and handling agents had 'rushed' about 17,000 bags to their destinations but the baggage system then suffered further issues and the problems started again. Haven't heard what the figures are currently for missed bags.
There is most definately a concerted effort to keep the story out of the press. I'm guessing journalists who are enquiring are being told it's a minor issue and it's all under control. After all, with the Queen arriving to open the shiny new terminal and with the T5 opening fiasco still a recent memory, Heathrow managers must be doing everything they can to keep this out of the news.
T2 does not in fact have it's own baggage sort area. T2 checked in bags are conveyored through a connecting tunnel into the T1 baggage sort area and taken to the relevant stands from there so any problems in T1 will impact in T2.
Did hear it was a software issue.
The problems started on Saturday and continued all day Sunday. By Sunday evening there were reports of app. 25,000 bags having been left behind affecting all T1/T2 departures. Many flights departed T1/T2 with no hold baggage at all. Apparently, by Monday lunchtime the airlines and handling agents had 'rushed' about 17,000 bags to their destinations but the baggage system then suffered further issues and the problems started again. Haven't heard what the figures are currently for missed bags.
There is most definately a concerted effort to keep the story out of the press. I'm guessing journalists who are enquiring are being told it's a minor issue and it's all under control. After all, with the Queen arriving to open the shiny new terminal and with the T5 opening fiasco still a recent memory, Heathrow managers must be doing everything they can to keep this out of the news.
T2 does not in fact have it's own baggage sort area. T2 checked in bags are conveyored through a connecting tunnel into the T1 baggage sort area and taken to the relevant stands from there so any problems in T1 will impact in T2.
Did hear it was a software issue.