LONDON CITY

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by turnipgreen

I have used them quite a few times from LCY. Very simple and efficient operation. Nothing smart about it but gets me to my meetings on time! Like them a lot.

Actually I once witnessed a VLM connection at LCY that definitely qualifies for smart, in fact probably one of the smartest bits of airline operation I have ever seen. All sat in the aircraft waiting to depart for Manchester, PA that we are waiting for one more connecting passenger. Delayed inbound arrives from Antwerp on next stand, passenger first off is picked out by ramp agent at the steps and walked across to our aircraft. He had hold baggage ! So stop at hold, identify bag, ramp agent takes it, puts pax up our stairs, bag in hold, door closed, start engines, on time departure.

It must have all been coordinated on the company frequency beforehand, so goodness knows how many people were involved in this one.

[airhumberside]

Airliner World Magazine and CH Aviation mention Air One will start LIN-LCY with a leased Avro RJ70 of Club Air

[virginblue]

Interesting. Aircraft involved would be Avro RJ70 EI-CPK (msn E1260). Looks as if the 12 RJ70 become some sort of a niche aircraft for LCY. Another one used by Transwede on the ARN route.

Will be interesting to see if Air One will give BA's once-daily MXP service a run for the money.

[daz211]

AIR ONE done very well out of STN using B737 tho
until RYR and EZYpushed it out

[WHBM]

Many of the 146-100s have indeed come through London City from time to time (the Euromanx ones were the last time I used one, but I remember being on a Cityjet one getting on for 10 years ago now). But they never seem to last. A route development aircraft it seems, but operators either move on from them or withdraw.

Air One should indeed give BA Connect a run for their money on Milan. Right Milan airport, if they do twice daily much more appropriate times for business travellers, well known in their market, etc. BA have seen the light on Madrid and are going to do it properly, fear they could well be pipped by another operator on Milan.

[virginblue]

Air One Flights uploaded into the GDS:

Milan-Linate starts 12/7 on November 20, 2006
Air One AP 4216: Linate (LIN) 08:40 - London City Apt (LCY) 09:40
Air One AP 4217: London City Apt (LCY) 10:10 - Linate (LIN) 13:10
Air One AP 4218: Linate (LIN) 16:00 - London City Apt (LCY) 17:00
Air One AP 4219: London City Apt (LCY) 17:30 - Linate (LIN) 20:30

Rome-Fiumicino 12/7 starts on January 8, 2007]
Air One AP 4220: Fiumicino (FCO) 08:20 - London City Apt (LCY) 09:50
Air One AP 4221: London City Apt (LCY) 10:35 - Fiumicino (FCO) 14:05
Air One AP 4222: Fiumicino (FCO) 14:50 - London City Apt (LCY) 16:20
Air One AP 4223: London City Apt (LCY) 16:50 - Fiumicino (FCO) 20:20

Torino/Genua 5/7 starts on January 29, 2007]
Air One AP 4224: Citta Di Torino (TRN) 08:40 - London City Apt (LCY) 09:40
Air One AP 4227: London City Apt (LCY) 10:30 - Cristoforo Colombo (GOA) 13:40
Air One AP 4226: Cristoforo Colombo (GOA) 15:50 - London City Apt (LCY) 17:00
Air One AP 4225: London City Apt (LCY) 17:45 - Citta Di Torino (TRN) 20:45


Timings are not exactly great in the morning, but probably they were unable to obtain earlier arrival slots. Anyhow, it would mean three RJ70s on the ground at same time - is there enpough ramp space between 0930-1000 for these additional flights ?

Will be interesting to see how the fares turn out - the utilisation of the aircraft is far from ideal with just four daily legs.

Let's see how Air One will source three RJ70s. There are only eleven RJ70 in operation worldwide, but seven are currently on the market (3 each ex Turkish / airBaltic + the second euromanx example).

[virginblue]

There are some unsubstantiated rumours that Lufthansa will take back the MUC while Cirrus then will operate a new Hamburg service (last operated by Augusburg Airways a while back).

If true, Lufthansa seems to put a focus on LCY. DUS, STR, now taking MUC back.

By the way, any indication if OLT is about to chop BRE now taht Ryanair will operate a twice daily flight to STN ? Not sure if there is enough business traffic to keep OLT who will most certainly loose most leisure travel to Ryanair.

[WHBM]

Stories in the financial press today regarding the sale of the airport. Said that Dermot Desmond, having paid £20m for it (albeit quite some time ago) is down to final offers around £600m, or thirty times what was paid for it.

I just wonder how the new investors will recoup that sort of money, they will be typically be looking for about £100m per year margin (profit after operating expenses) to justify such investment. I am surprised LCY can generate that much. Anybody seen the latest accounts ?

[AlanM]

It does seem very expensive - but then with the Olympics coming......

I think they will be operating almost H24 by then - as the noise is the limiting factor for their ops and movement restrictions right now. The politics involved with 2012 will be huge.

Or maybe a buyer has plans for some houses.....!

[Red Four]

Not houses, but maybe a few skyscrapers perhaps?
(you know, the ones that can't be built at present due airport safeguarding)

[virginblue]

Now that would be fun- buy and bulldoze the airport :-)


The rumour regarding HAMLCY and HAMMUC seems to be true, travel agents in Northern Germany are already being advised of the new route.


Funny how this forum is always well ahead of the official news regarding new routes.

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by virginblue

Now that would be fun- buy and bulldoze the airport

This was actually a lunatic suggestion from London mayor Ken Livingstone a couple of weeks ago. His rationale was that with the construction of Crossrail (one of his "pet projects", and which all the LCY employees who live close to the airport will be paying handsomely for through their Council Tax bills) then you will be able to get to Heathrow "in a flash", and that LCY will no longer be necessary.

He's obviously forgotten already his speech when he opened the DLR extension to LCY a few months ago and said the new connection was a major advantage for London ......

[airhumberside]

VLM will start one of their AMS-LCY flights at Groningen (I guess instead of parking it at AMS overnight)

[turnipgreen]

LH and LCY

Originally Posted by virginblue

Now that would be fun- buy and bulldoze the airport :-)


The rumour regarding HAMLCY and HAMMUC seems to be true, travel agents in Northern Germany are already being advised of the new route.


Funny how this forum is always well ahead of the official news regarding new routes.

I get all my route news for LCY from here! I use the MUC service with Cirrus. Its usually full but not a great plane. If they put a jet on ther with LH it will be a winner! One of my colleagues from Germany has told me that he thinks there will be more into LCY shortly as well. Has LCY finally reached the point where it is a first choice now for airlines?

[virginblue]

Yet unconfirmed, but apparently the MUC route will be operated with a Cityline Avro RJ85 - not the most comfortable of planes since the 5 abreast seating has been replaced with a high density 6 abreast layout, but a jet is a jet is a jet

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by turnipgreen

One of my colleagues from Germany has told me that he thinks there will be more into LCY shortly as well.

A welcome return would be Berlin. The first flight I ever took from LCY was the old Conti Flug 146 service to Berlin Tempelhof in about 1990. Lufthansa do not have any service from London to Berlin at all. I know politics plays a part in preventing LH returning to Tempelhof (which nevertheless remains open for business) but it would be an undoubted winner for them. The loads were very good back in 1990.

[turnipgreen]

WHBM

As I understand it from a friend whose an analyst (aviation not the other kind!) Berlin has a low yield so hard to make work from LCY? Guess its all the low cost competition? But then BA make it work from LHR don't they?

[turnipgreen]

virginblue

I for one will be using the service! Better than the current 328 I am using.

[WHBM]

turnipgreen

How on earth can a city-pair between the capital cities of the two largest economies in Western Europe, both the largest metropolitan areas in their own countries, and far apart enough that it is not susceptible to surface competition, be low yield compared to say Hamburg or Luxembourg ? And LH has failed to serve it since before the low-costs came on the route.

[turnipgreen]

WHBM

I believe it has to do with the amount of supply into Berlin from London plus the make up of Berlin. The Berliners traditionally only pay low fares. Although the government has been there some time it hasnt attracted all the business you would expect. Finance is in Frankfurt, Media in Hamburg etc. The actual business market in Berlin is small still hence why its low yield.