LUTON

[Buster the Bear]

Newquay to Cardiff by road is 180 miles so far quicker to drive than fly if you consider getting to the airport, checking in, flying, arriving, waiting for bags, getting from airport to destination.

I realise that the route is operating and I bet Arann have been given a subsidy to continue to fly it after Air Wales closes its passenger operations?

I cannot see this route being filled with business travellers paying premium fares, so someone is subsidising it? When the funds are gone, will then the route will close?

As far as Arann's intentions at Luton are concerned, both confusing and ridiculous! If you have unfortunately booked on any of the routes in question, I bet you would be rather annoyed!

Anyway, what can a bear know, someone will probably now tell me that the yield on the Newquay-Cardiff route is awesome?

[Buster the Bear]

Is it April 1st again?

I was told a rumour today which I find frankly, extraordinary, but I would like to share it with a wider audience.

Well the story is, that the contractors are paid a fine imposed on Luton airport if the runway is handed over late during the current re-surfacing works.

That's right, the airport pays the contractor money if the runway is late being handed to the contractors. Absurd, but we are talking about Luton! This of course would account for the number of times that landing is declined around midnight?

Anyway I am a bear with a cavernous gap between my ears and my tarmac laying negotiating skills are somewhat rather lacking........Discuss!


My Thomsonfly mole reckons that there is 'more to come' from the lo-co arm of TUI, Luton is seen as a potential growth point for their operation, unlike an airport who played host to the original inception of the airline.

[LTNman]

Originally Posted by Buster the Bear

Well the story is, that the contractors are paid a fine imposed on Luton airport if the runway is handed over late during the current re-surfacing works.
That's right, the airport pays the contractor money if the runway is late being handed to the contractors. Absurd.

I suppose it works both ways. If the airport hands over the runway late they get fined and if the contractor hands the runway back late they get fined. Seems reasonable to me and a sign of a good contract as at the end of the day the airport want the work completed on schedule.

Anyone know how the runway resurfacing work is getting on? In which direction is the work taking place? The end of next week should mean that the job is one third complete or put another way 720m of runway should have a new black top.

In another month work should begin in earnest on the new A505 dual carriageway. There is a hillside that will be dug out by the side of the runway with the soil being transported to between the Gypsy Lane roundabouts and the bottom end of Capability Green as the road there is on a high embankment. I wonder how many earth moving lorries will need to cross the road each day. With a new bridge over the main line railway, another one over the Lower Luton Road plus a third bridge to take the new road over the A505 into the airport this short stretch of extra duel carriageway is a major engineering project!

[LGS6753]

Penalty Clauses

Lots of Civil Engineering programmes contain penalty clauses. I'm sure the runway contractors have them too. But if any delay in completion (which costs them money) is the fault of their client, it's only reasonable that they should be able to re-claim the cost from the client.
Also, they will be pricing on a 'job' basis. So they will ensure that equipment, men and material are in place for a known start time. If they can't get started on time, they still have to bear those costs. If that's the fault of the client then yes, the client should pay.

Not so daft as it seems, Buster!

[ebenezer]

E = MC2

Spot on LGS6753!!

This is why the runway closure time each night is so critical.

The way that the arrangement works is that for every XXX minutes late that the runway is handed over to the contractors, £ZZZ is added to the contract price charged to LLAO, whilst the contractors have various milestones written into the contract that measure their progress against time taken and also act as cash incentives (i.e. not achieving the milestones as agreed results in £YYY being deducted from the contract price paid by LLAO) to keep to what it a pretty tight schedule.

Hope that's clear, Buster!!

[CAP493]

Personally I can't stand LTN. I've flown out of LTN, LHR, STN, LGW and BHX and LTN comes across as being cheap and badly thought out. I've also worked at LTN, STN and LCY and having returned to LTN for work my thoughts on the place are no better.

You're not comparing like for like OpsSix ~ excepting corporate business which is handled separately, LTN now caters predominately for the low-cost scheduled market. LHR, LGW, BHX & LCY do not. Although STN also caters predominately for the lo-cos, the funding of that Airport does not reflect its income as it's cross-subsidised by the airlines at LHR and LGW, whilst LTN has to be financially 'stand alone'. Although LTN may appear to be something of a 'quart forced into a pint pot' it should be remembered that the site sits on top of a hill and is bordered along one side by the built up area of Luton; this bears no comparison to the likes STN which owes its orignal location to wartime planning & use.

If you really can't stand LTN, why do you choose to work there?

[LTNman]

THE Spanish operator of Luton, Belfast and Cardiff airports is in talks with an Italian toll-road operator about a €26.4 billion (£18.3 billion) merger that would create one of Europe’s biggest infrastructure groups.
Abertis, which 18 months ago acquired TBI, the owner of the three British airports, has begun formal talks to merge with Autostrade Group, a former shareholder in Midlands Expressway, the company that runs the M6 toll road.

Under Abertis’s ownership, Luton airport has developed ambitious plans for expansion. It hopes to triple in size by 2030 as part of a £1.5 billion scheme that would include the construction of a new full-length runway in time for the 2012 London Olympics.

The airport’s plans, which were presented in October last year, are viewed as a potential rival to BAA’s plans to expand Stansted by building a second runway and terminal. The Luton plans have yet to receive planning approval.

Full story at http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...147520,00.html

[Daft bat]

LTNMAN

The airport’s plans, which were presented in October last year, are viewed as a potential rival to BAA’s plans to expand Stansted by building a second runway and terminal. The Luton plans have yet to receive planning approval.

You need to read the Financial mail, (today sunday 23/04/06): in regards to the Luton Spanish operator. It revolves around a hostile bid for BAA that could be blocked by the CAA.They are against the takeover because of large debts that they will inherit and also they would be obliged to carry out all the improvments and developments already committed by BAA ie terminal five and the second runway at STN. Rumour has it they want BAA because they are not confident they will get the approval for all the expansions they want at Luton because of growing objections locally.
If they are succesful in getting BAA and are committed to spending the billions on excisting BAA project, you have to wonder if there will be any money left in the pot for LTN expansion.

[LTNman]

If they are succesful in getting BAA and are committed to spending the billions on excisting BAA project, you have to wonder if there will be any money left in the pot for LTN expansion.

It’s a different Spanish company (Ferrovial) that wants to buy BAA. The Luton operator is a company called Abertis.

[King Pong]

From the Notam:
DUE RESURFACING, RWY CENTRELINE, SUPPLEMENTARY APPROACH AND TOUCHDOWN LIGHTING NOT AVBL. ILS RADIATING CAT 3 AT ALL TIMES THAT RWY IS OPEN.

Now I thought that due to a lack of runway lighting this meant that approaches were only CAT 1 yet with RVR’s at around 450m on 08 everything seems to be landing OK. A Wizz jet told the tower that with the available lighting they needed only 300m

Update:
Might have missed some arrivals here but maybe easyjet 737’s aren’t getting in. No problems though for 2 Britannia's, 3 Wizz, an easyjet 319 and a number of corporate flights

[Buster the Bear]

I see that Thomsonfly are going to offer a service from Cardiff to Jersey most days of the week. Well fancy that!

They are using an Arann airframe to operate it.....Well what a surprise!

As for the runway debacle, who operates the runway? The airport appears to shaft its customers, the passengers and its airlines if they arrive a few minutes late via contract with an engineering company?

A customer focused contract would ensure that odd exceptions to the midnight closure would be available at no penalty to anyone, inc the passengers? I doubt if previous Senior managers would have agreed to such a poor contract which 'shafts' its customers. Isn't London City airport doing well these days?

Engineering contractors 1 - Luton passengers 0

Anyway, what do the owners care about it's airports customers, for LBC are laughing all the way to the bank!

Disclaimer: I am a bear, so what do I know about airports?

[Pain in the R's]

A customer focused contract would ensure that odd exceptions to the midnight closure would be available at no penalty to anyone, inc the passengers?

The same should apply then to a passenger turning up a couple of minutes late at an easyjet or Ryanair check-in desk. Are they not the airlines that like to say no!

[LTNman]

If you are wondering what happened to the Luton based Aer Arann aircraft I have heard that Abertis have been in secret negotiations with Aer Arann and have persuaded the airline that they should instead operate a Cardiff - Dublin service from next week. It seems that Ryanair have got the arseh*le with Abertis at the moment and are closing down their Dublin – Cardiff service and this is Abertis’s way of saying that they are not going to be pushed around. Aer Arann will also operate a new Galway service from Cardiff.

This from Cardiff Airports website:

Cardiff International Airport has become the latest in a string of airports to come under attack from Ryanair - in March it was Ireland's Cork Airport; earlier in April, Stansted was in their sights. Ryanair are well known for taking up such positions and have done this with a number of airports in the UK and their native Ireland.


Statements by the airline about their contract with Cardiff International Airport are incorrect. In fact, charges proposed by Cardiff International were less than the average that Ryanair publicly admits it pays across Europe.

Dublin-bound passengers left in the lurch by Ryanair need not worry. Award-winning airline Aer Arann have this evening confirmed that they will take over the lucrative 180,000 passengers-a-year Cardiff-Dublin route with a twice-daily service from next week. Fares from £19.99 one way including taxes will be offered on Aer Arann's new service.

Aer Arann have already taken over Cardiff-Cork, announced new services to Lorient and is expected to announce a Cardiff - Galway service tomorrow.


Also the Telegraph are reporting that Abertis has hammered out a takeover of Italy's Autostrade, despite opposition from Italian politicians, to create the world's largest infrastructure company, worth around €25bn. This makes BAA seem like small change.

[ebenezer]

As for the runway debacle, who operates the runway? The airport appears to shaft its customers, the passengers and its airlines if they arrive a few minutes late via contract with an engineering company? A customer focused contract would ensure that odd exceptions to the midnight closure would be available at no penalty to anyone, inc the passengers? I doubt if previous Senior managers would have agreed to such a poor contract which 'shafts' its customers. Isn't London City airport doing well these days?
Engineering contractors 1 - Luton passengers 0

Eh? Sorry Buster but I think you've lost the plot entirely: nobody is 'shafting' anybody - LLAO is simply managing a highly disruptive multi-million pound major project in an efficient and focussed manner. Incidentally, it's a project that's about 8 years overdue and one that a certain former airport MD (now working in London's docklands...) should have implemented during his period of dubious tenure. As for Luton's former "Senior Managers" you only have to look at the 1970s-style shambles that LLAO inherited at LTN to realise that those illustrious individuals weren't capable of even planning such a project, let alone implementing it, and ensuring it's completed on time and on budget.

You're extremely funny Buster but please don't make me laugh even more, 'cos it hurts...

Now I thought that due to a lack of runway lighting this meant that approaches were only CAT 1 yet with RVR’s at around 450m on 08 everything seems to be landing OK.

Different aircraft operators have different minima IAW JAR-OPS or FARs. Some aircraft + appropriately-qualified flight crew can actually operate down to Cat. 2 minima even with reduced runway lighting. Some are actually able to operate down to 350 metres; others are stuck with the Cat. 1 minima (lack of approval/aircraft equippage/flight crew currency/etc). It's up to the aircraft operators to seek the necessary approval from their regulatory authority.

[Powerjet1]

If you are wondering what happened to the Luton based Aer Arann aircraft I have heard that Abertis have been in secret negotiations with Aer Arann and have persuaded the airline that they should instead operate a Cardiff - Dublin service from next week. It seems that Ryanair have got the arseh*le with Abertis at the moment and are closing down their Dublin – Cardiff service and this is Abertis’s way of saying that they are not going to be pushed around. Aer Arann will also operate a new Galway service from Cardiff.

The spat between Ryanair & Abertis at Cardiff, probably partly explains why there has been no real Ryan expansion at LTN recently, since the four based 738s arrived. Indeed, there has been a slight contraction of routes served since Jan 05. I know there are currently no available overnight parking stands to accommodate more based units, but no services from their other european bases have materialised either. From Oct, ryan are increasing their Hahn - Stansted from 4 to 6 daily flights. One would have thought at least one of these might have come to LTN. When the new 738s were announced for LTN by MOL, back in July 2004, he said he envisaged 6 or 7 based units at LTN within 2/3 years plus other routes served from european bases.

Abertis seem to be showing they will not be pushed around by ryanair, and are actively looking to secure new business from other airlines. I think new routes from ryan @ LTN will be zero to minimal over the coming months.

[CAP493]

Abertis seem to be showing they will not be pushed around by ryanair, and are actively looking to secure new business from other airlines. I think new routes from ryan @ LTN will be zero to minimal over the coming months.

You could be right but...isn't this all rather childish? Surely, if a route can be run profitably and there are runway slots available at the time(s) required to capture the business, then the airline(s) and airport(s) involved ought to be doing business, not pratting around exchanging insults, posturing and finally retreating into their different corners to sulk. Maybe I'm naive - I would have thought that both sides ought to be seeking to meet their primary responsibility which is to serve the best interests of their shareholders - not to pander to the over-inflated egos of their respective chief executives.

Quite frankly, if you're right Powerjet1, it's utterly pathetic and typifies a short-sighted tunnel-visioned management attitude that simply makes you

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

CAP493 - you are right .... but only up to a point.

If the details of the Cardiff "spat" on the Ryanair thread are accurate, then why should Albertis have a business relationship with any airline that is unprofitable. The same goes for any business relationship whether in the world of aviation or not - it needs to be mutually beneficial to both parties. Yes, there are times where an airport operator may take on business at a loss, but usually it's only for an introductory period.

In the case of Ryanair, the current contract had an expiry date and needed to be renegotiated. Mutually beneficial terms could not be agreed. End of story.

[Powerjet1]

Wizz are expected to announce flights between Luton & Romania next month. starting in August. They have already announced flights from Budapest starting 14 July.

Thomsonfly.....more in the pipeline.

[Buster the Bear]

Wizz are rapidly becoming a 'huge' airline at Luton.

TUI with their HQ just down the road have "more in the pipeline" which is very good news.

Wizz to Transylvania next, Count Dracula breaks?

[King Pong]

The good news for Luton is that Wizz don't require night stopping stands