LUTON

[Buster the Bear]

I bet Edinburgh-Munich is still happening?

Hopefully the number of forward bookings from Luton to Brussels has demonstrated a demand?

[airhumberside]

I bet Edinburgh-Munich is still happening?

Apparently not

[Buster the Bear]

I kind of assumed that the 135 was destined to be based at Luton or Edinburgh. The Luton-Brussels route seems to have come to nothing, therefore the Edinburgh base must be happening?

[nickmanl]

Did we really expect anything else?

I dont think the management of LTN will be losing much sleep over the loss of a BMI regional service to Brussels.

At the end of the day if Ryanair cannot make Stansted - Brussels work then what hope in hell does a company so disoraganised and unsure as to the product they are offering have?

Edit- I know the Ryanair route was subsidised by the airport in question but my question is, if Ryanair, with the lowest cost base in the EU (and quite possibily the world) cannot make it happen then what hope fo BMI?

[LTNman]

I kind of assumed that the 135 was destined to be based at Luton or Edinburgh. The Luton-Brussels route seems to have come to nothing, therefore the Edinburgh base must be happening?

No that service will also not happen. If you try to book it you are routed via London.

Edit- I know the Ryanair route was subsidised by the airport in question but my question is, if Ryanair, with the lowest cost base in the EU (and quite possibily the world) cannot make it happen then what hope fo BMI?

1 full fare BMI passenger can generate more income than 20 Ryanair passengers.

[CAP493]

I dont think the management of LTN will be losing much sleep over the loss of a BMI regional service to Brussels.

Definitely NOT! It would only have lasted 12 to 18 months anyway, after all, once the Eurostar terminal is opened at St Pancras Intl., in 2007, why would anyone who can access that station from for example, North London, Beds or Herts., choose to fly LTN/BRU when they can do the journey via Eurostar to Brussels' City Centre?

This must also bring into question, easyJet's LTN/CDG service...??

But some additional services from LTN into Germany and Scandinavia - now that's a different matter and these are two areas that are currently, not well served.

[ebenezer]

The reason that the proposed BMI Luton/Brussels service has been scrapped is because BMI couldn't get the morning slot that it wanted for its first departure.

For the first time ever, the 0700 to 0800 hour Mons to Fris is now virtually full with 25 departures and 5 arrivals already coordinated by ACL most weekdays. Luton still does not require ACL to coordinate corporate movements and so with the runway hourly rate still declared at 32 this leaves just 2 slots available in this hour for corporate, positioning and other uncoordinated ad-hoc movements.

LLAO is also looking to accommodate two or three 40 movement hours each day, Mons to Fris from next May, the movement split being roughly 25% departures and 75% arrivals - this figure is based on requested slots but again, doesn't include corporate flights.

BMI was just unlucky as it was looking for a fairly early departure ex. Luton, for the first rotation.

Even the 0600 to 0700 hour from about Easter 2006 onwards is already being booked to the extent of 25 movements in that period (excluding corporates).

Good news for Luton and as has been said by others, the LLAO management isn't shedding any tears over BMI!!!

[Buster the Bear]

40 in an hour.......BLIMEY that is one movement every 90 seconds!

[toledoashley]

bmi flight is still on worldspan

[Buster the Bear]

Rumour doing the rounds currently and as such is unsubstantiated:

'Ryanair wanted to base additional aircraft at Luton for Summer 06, but they (RYR), wanted to renegotiate thier existing deal with the current concession operators and ACDL said NO!'

As I said, just a rumour. The 'NO' seemed quite emphatic?

I would therefore suggest that some of the slot applications (40 movements per hour) will not actually happen?

Mind you, I will probably awake to find RYR announcing an increase in based airframes tomorrow morning!

The additional based easyJet airframe news, caused even those close to the action, to take a sharp intake of air!

As this is a rumour network and my info came from 'alternative' sources, you can freely ignore it?

Anyway, whatever the deal on the table, you have to make a profit from it eventually, or say NO?

[LTNman]

For the first time ever, the 0700 to 0800 hour Mons to Fris is now virtually full with 25 departures and 5 arrivals already coordinated by ACL most weekdays. Luton still does not require ACL to coordinate corporate movements and so with the runway hourly rate still declared at 32 this leaves just 2 slots available in this hour for corporate, positioning and other uncoordinated ad-hoc movements.

Something not right here me thinks. The following is the total inbound and outbound movements between 07:00 and 08:00 for Monday 14th November to Friday 18th November

14th 23 movements
15th 20 movements
16th 24 movements
17th 21 movements
18th 21 movements

Still nowhere near the 32

I see that Luton is in the running for a service to Reims operated by Air Turquoise. An ATR 42 will operate the service if it goes ahead

[ebenezer]

The following is the total inbound and outbound movements between 07:00 and 08:00 for Monday 14th November to Friday 18th November

The movements mentioned in my earlier post relate to 'booked' runway slots (excluding corporate flights) for 2006 - not to last month's movements.

Buster may be correct in that RYR accounts for a significant proportion of the additional runway movements requested for 2006. However, the way that RYR historically does its negotiations is that MoL stays out of the frame, his senior managers do the business and then, when the proposed deal(s) fall through and they walk away, it leaves MoL free to ride in and "save" the situation.

ACDL has absolutely no need or intention to re-negotiate its current deal with RYR and the latter probably knows it. Therefore, if the business really is there at Luton, RYR will tap into it anyway.

So watch this space!!

[King Pong]

The movements mentioned in my earlier post relate to 'booked' runway slots (excluding corporate flights) for 2006 - not to last month's movements.

So let me get this straight. An airline books slots months in advance that it might not need for routes it hasn’t even applied for. By doing this it then stops another airline from operating a service that it would operate if it could get a slot.

It’s like making a weekly appointment to see the doctor just in case you are taken ill.

[CAP493]

You've pretty much got it!

Some years ago, Monarch (I think it was...) did precisely this at LGW in respect of a programme of charter ops. As I recall BAA/GAL indicated that the airline would need to either "use 'em or lose 'em". I'm not sure what Monarch (if it was them) finally did.

I suspect that nowadays, the slots provisionally booked have to be confirmed by a specific cut-off date. As regards the BMI situation at LTN, apparently the slots during the 0700 to 0800 hour have all been confirmed and ACL on behalf of ACDL/LLAO offered/was going to offer a different time. However, the time differential between UK and Continental Europe meant that the arrival in Brussels of the first rotation would not have been as attractive because the service was aimed primarily at business users and so was designed to offer a full day's working in Brussels.

The main point that this illustrates is that arguably, for the first time ever, LTN has a period each weekday that is actually slot constrained (based on the existing hourly declaration of 32 and that as has been said previously, ACL for ACDL/LLAO still doesn't coordinate LTN corporate movements).

But one wonders, for how much longer...

[Powerjet1]

Noticed the FCA flight to Arrecife on Thursday was cancelled & yesterday's Tenerife did not operate. Infact this week there has hardly been any FCA flights at all. I thought they were setting up a crew base etc at LTN this winter ?. Is the A320 still based at LTN at the moment or has something changed?.

There does seem to be a Santa flight to Kittila this morning but thats it. Anyone know anymore?.


Also, for SO6, LTN-DUB by ryan seems to have gone down from 4 to 3 daily returns on Tue/Thur ?

[King Pong]

People here who don't have a clue

According to someone who has his finger on the pulse at Luton Airport, reads PPRUNE, laughs at some of the claims but doesn’t contribute to the forum, BMI never even applied for slots out of LTN. So all this talk about BMI not being able to get a slot out of LTN between 7:00 – 8:00 is utter rubbish.

Also much of what is being written here about summer 2006 slot allocation is also rubbish. I for one believe what he says.

Looking at season by time for summer 2006 https://www.online-coordination.com/...abid=AvailHour Luton is still green for every hour of every day for 2006. Stansted on the other hand is almost all amber for the peak hours (1-3 slots left) or red (no slots left). So he appears to be right and a few people here are wrong.

[CAP493]

BMI never even applied for slots out of LTN. So all this talk about BMI not being able to get a slot out of LTN between 7:00 – 8:00 is utter rubbish

Sorry but you 'informant' is well off course - suggest that he speaks to one of the senior people within LLAO who can no doubt help confirm what has been previously said about BMI and which is where this info - that the planned morning slot wasn't available - orginally came from.

As to the ACL on-line planner, the information available from official sources within LLAO suggests that for an hour or so each day (as previously posted), Mondays to Fridays, Luton is in the 'amber' (or in the 'red' - remembering that ACL for LLAO doesn't coordinate corporate flights but instead, holds back one slot in every 15 minute period which means that effectively, there are only a maximum of 28 slots available per hour that can be taken up via ACL) - so there would appear to be something of a dichotomy here.

Still, the proof of the pudding, etc., etc.

[ebenezer]

Having just looked at the link: 2006 https://www.online-coordination.com...tabid=AvailHour, frankly what's shown is a load of rubbish (unless I'm just plain stupid!!) because for example, for the period 27 March to 02 April 2006, the 0700 to 0800 hour is certainly 'green' but appears to offer 20 arrival slots and 17 departure slots i.e. a total of 37 movements - and this excluding corporate movements!!!

I don't think somehow, that this is a true reflection of the forward planned runway slot situation at LTN for 2006.

But please correct my interpretation if I'm wrong!!

[King Pong]

All seems very strange that BMI who allegedly wanted to run this service could not because other airlines were reserving slots for flights to destinations that they had not even applied for. Surly an actual route takes precedent over no route at all? I find it hard to believe that the owners of Luton Airport would let this happen.

Also I would have thought that BMI would have had a departure between 06:00 and 07:00 so the returning flight still came in early so that inbound passengers could have a full business day in the UK.

Another thing, what is the point of having an ACL planner that gives out wrong information?

[LTNman]

Having just looked at the link: 2006 https://www.online-coordination.com...tabid=AvailHour, frankly what's shown is a load of rubbish (unless I'm just plain stupid!!) because for example, for the period 27 March to 02 April 2006, the 0700 to 0800 hour is certainly 'green' but appears to offer 20 arrival slots and 17 departure slots i.e. a total of 37 movements - and this excluding corporate movements!!!

Don’t forget summer time will have kicked in by then so I guess that 07:00- 08:00 local time will show as 06:00- 07:00. If that is the case then there are on average 11 arrivals and 6 departure slots available. Seeing that in November Luton was averaging around 22 movements and of those only around 18 were airline movements which would have been booked well in advance then 18 + 11 + 6 comes to 35 slots.