BA Unofficial Strike ( Merged)
Paxing All Over The World
FlyingTom
Don't be stupid! GG lost a client and then failed to restructure in a way that would enhance their business - and that is the client's fault? Ridiculous! GG have endangered their business.
Equally, if BA have outsourced a mission critical aspect of their business and have done so WITHOUT clauses that allow them to make a full financial recovery for lost revenue - then have been very silly. They woul dnot be able to get back the good will but a legal settlement would show where the fault lay.
I do hope that they can recover financial losses from GG as the chance of making any recovery from their own illegal strikers is probably zero. As fireflybob says: "didn't anyone in BA management think to do a risk analysis on contracting out all the catering to one company?"
The irony of all this is that it was all caused by Virgin. The smiling jersey must be pi$$ing himself.
Equally, if BA have outsourced a mission critical aspect of their business and have done so WITHOUT clauses that allow them to make a full financial recovery for lost revenue - then have been very silly. They woul dnot be able to get back the good will but a legal settlement would show where the fault lay.
I do hope that they can recover financial losses from GG as the chance of making any recovery from their own illegal strikers is probably zero. As fireflybob says: "didn't anyone in BA management think to do a risk analysis on contracting out all the catering to one company?"
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Apparently, the core of the unofficial BA issue revolved around Health and Safety. Gate Gourmet had already employed 130 casual staff who had not received adequate training.
The baggage handlers and MT drivers considered that their safety was being placed at risk by Gate Gourmet, after one particular incident on the ramp, and they decided to walk off until they had assurances these temporary casual employees would not be allowed in the vicinity of our aicraft.
I can't verify this, as I work at LGW, but this is what "Rumour Control" has cascaded to us and, certainly, it helps to explain something that didn't make sense!
The baggage handlers and MT drivers considered that their safety was being placed at risk by Gate Gourmet, after one particular incident on the ramp, and they decided to walk off until they had assurances these temporary casual employees would not be allowed in the vicinity of our aicraft.
I can't verify this, as I work at LGW, but this is what "Rumour Control" has cascaded to us and, certainly, it helps to explain something that didn't make sense!
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The irony of all this is that it was all caused by Virgin. The smiling jersey must be pi$$ing himself.
Of course, the loss of the Virgin contract may also have been a link in a chain going further back.
"didn\'t anyone in BA management think to do a risk analysis on contracting out all the catering to one company?"
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Part of an article from http://www.guardian.co.uk/ba/story/0...548478,00.html
Earlier, pickets at Gate Gourmet's plant at Heathrow said the company had embarked on a sustained attempt to downgrade their pay and conditions even before last week's flashpoint.
They say the workload was steadily increasing even as staff levels were being eroded.
They said that the number of flights they were expected to service rose from 42 to 72 and that they could no longer share the workload with a nightshift.
They say company plans included the reduction of sick pay entitlement from 25 days a year to five.
Overtime pay rates, which rose according to the length of shift, were to become a flat rate and shift patterns were changed.
Workers also cited a recent restructuring, claiming that staff were promoted to management positions and then made redundant, thereby allowing senior officials to say they were pruning the management tier.
It is said that pay and bonuses were also being affected, with drivers seeing hourly pay rates reduced from £8 an hour to £6.35.
Although many changes followed a statutory consultative process, staff say that their objections were never taken into account.
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I don’t blame them for striking when they are treated like this
Earlier, pickets at Gate Gourmet's plant at Heathrow said the company had embarked on a sustained attempt to downgrade their pay and conditions even before last week's flashpoint.
They say the workload was steadily increasing even as staff levels were being eroded.
They said that the number of flights they were expected to service rose from 42 to 72 and that they could no longer share the workload with a nightshift.
They say company plans included the reduction of sick pay entitlement from 25 days a year to five.
Overtime pay rates, which rose according to the length of shift, were to become a flat rate and shift patterns were changed.
Workers also cited a recent restructuring, claiming that staff were promoted to management positions and then made redundant, thereby allowing senior officials to say they were pruning the management tier.
It is said that pay and bonuses were also being affected, with drivers seeing hourly pay rates reduced from £8 an hour to £6.35.
Although many changes followed a statutory consultative process, staff say that their objections were never taken into account.
-------------------------------------
I don’t blame them for striking when they are treated like this
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Well said LTNman. The fault for this mess lies totally at the feet of the GG management. Although the fallout will be firmly blamed on BA. I only hope that any future industrial action threatened by Cabin Crew/Flight crew will be shown the same contempt as on this forum whether it be balloted or not. Its amazing how different things appear when the boot is on the other foot. It has only served to demonstrate how divided this country is, particularly when it is a low paid sector of the community. Basically many of the posters on this forum have just scraped them off the bottom of their shoe without a thought for the GG workers and families.
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Listening to Company Doctor David James discussing the BA sympathy strikes on Radio 4's Today Programme this morning was very illuminating. Many people who had the misfortune to be caught up in the BA take-over of Danair will remember him, and BA's treatment of their staff at that time.
His basic view was that outsourcing was absolutely critical to the airline industry and to the survival of major players in it like BA. It enables costcutting to the absolute minimum that the market will bear to occur at the fastest possible rate.
Note that he said that, in time, all functions ought to be amenable to this process and that the laws of the market make it inevitability if a company is to survive.
After a decade and a half of costcutting and retrenchment and with no end in sight it has finally dawned on me that this is a terrible industry to work in. Read the threads on easyjet, ryanair, etc etc and you get a feel for what’s happening out there.
Wannabe's - don’t be an idiot - it will never get better - the core of David James' message I believe. I suggest that you get a "proper" qualification and a job in the real world. Ideally, go for an industry where the money is - banking, for one. If you can pass an ATPL-IR there are a lot of other things you can and probably should do. Want to spend the time and effort on an ATPL and join, say, Air Southwest as an FO on £16,000 a year! That’ll pay off the £45,000+ loan you took on to qualify in the first place!
Whether a safety critical industry should really be pushed this hard is a matter for debate - just ask USAir's latest chairman: "Deregulation is a disaster for this industry - we've got no furniture left to burn", he said.
At the micro level - do I want my flightcrew meal prepared by a temp on the minimum wage? Do the paying passengers on a longhaul flight where food is arguably more than a mere distraction deserve better than that? I think they do.
BA has a long history of acute bitterness in its industrial relations and has a reputation for appalling heavy handedness when it thinks it can get away with it - remember Danair anyone? (No, I am not ex-Dans).
Whilst I abhor the "wildcat" sympathy strike I have some sympathy with GG staff. At the pay levels that they are on they may as well strike if cuts go too far - they cant survive in the LHR area on less. Locking people in the canteen without access to a toilet, as was the case at GG when the action started appears to me totally disgusting in an age where the worst excesses of the Victorian mill owner syndrome ought not to be tolerated. Are human beings worthy of any respect? What kind of society do we aspire to be, and what kind of industry have we become when this is the level we have sunk to?
In conclusion it WILL NEVER GET ANY BETTER. Every time we think we have turned a corner there will be another disaster. SARS, foot'n'mouth, Iraq war 2, 9/11, 7/7, it is an industry where, left unregulated, any disturbance wipes out profitability for years and certainly prevents a return on capital that justifies that which is tied up within it. Staff will be forever losing pay and benefits in real terms to try and stem the losses and create viability. Wannabe's : Is this what you want for your future?
"If you cant stand the heat get out", you say. Quite right too. The business model of the average airline is unsustainable and I am leaving after many years to retrain and join the wider world. I know it will be hard but there are successful industries out there offering growth and a viable return on capital. I suggest I am not alone. Was it 17 FO's who left BMI last year, many in disgust returning to their former sectors where they earned the money to learn to fly in the first place.
Good luck to the remainder, I really mean it. You are going to need it.
His basic view was that outsourcing was absolutely critical to the airline industry and to the survival of major players in it like BA. It enables costcutting to the absolute minimum that the market will bear to occur at the fastest possible rate.
Note that he said that, in time, all functions ought to be amenable to this process and that the laws of the market make it inevitability if a company is to survive.
After a decade and a half of costcutting and retrenchment and with no end in sight it has finally dawned on me that this is a terrible industry to work in. Read the threads on easyjet, ryanair, etc etc and you get a feel for what’s happening out there.
Wannabe's - don’t be an idiot - it will never get better - the core of David James' message I believe. I suggest that you get a "proper" qualification and a job in the real world. Ideally, go for an industry where the money is - banking, for one. If you can pass an ATPL-IR there are a lot of other things you can and probably should do. Want to spend the time and effort on an ATPL and join, say, Air Southwest as an FO on £16,000 a year! That’ll pay off the £45,000+ loan you took on to qualify in the first place!
Whether a safety critical industry should really be pushed this hard is a matter for debate - just ask USAir's latest chairman: "Deregulation is a disaster for this industry - we've got no furniture left to burn", he said.
At the micro level - do I want my flightcrew meal prepared by a temp on the minimum wage? Do the paying passengers on a longhaul flight where food is arguably more than a mere distraction deserve better than that? I think they do.
BA has a long history of acute bitterness in its industrial relations and has a reputation for appalling heavy handedness when it thinks it can get away with it - remember Danair anyone? (No, I am not ex-Dans).
Whilst I abhor the "wildcat" sympathy strike I have some sympathy with GG staff. At the pay levels that they are on they may as well strike if cuts go too far - they cant survive in the LHR area on less. Locking people in the canteen without access to a toilet, as was the case at GG when the action started appears to me totally disgusting in an age where the worst excesses of the Victorian mill owner syndrome ought not to be tolerated. Are human beings worthy of any respect? What kind of society do we aspire to be, and what kind of industry have we become when this is the level we have sunk to?
In conclusion it WILL NEVER GET ANY BETTER. Every time we think we have turned a corner there will be another disaster. SARS, foot'n'mouth, Iraq war 2, 9/11, 7/7, it is an industry where, left unregulated, any disturbance wipes out profitability for years and certainly prevents a return on capital that justifies that which is tied up within it. Staff will be forever losing pay and benefits in real terms to try and stem the losses and create viability. Wannabe's : Is this what you want for your future?
"If you cant stand the heat get out", you say. Quite right too. The business model of the average airline is unsustainable and I am leaving after many years to retrain and join the wider world. I know it will be hard but there are successful industries out there offering growth and a viable return on capital. I suggest I am not alone. Was it 17 FO's who left BMI last year, many in disgust returning to their former sectors where they earned the money to learn to fly in the first place.
Good luck to the remainder, I really mean it. You are going to need it.
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Having been just one insignificant victim of today's latest blow (family wedding overseas ruined)
This strike was illegal, that is the only single fact that matters. Had they gone through the relevant channels, people would have been prepared, both pax and management.
Those in BA who went on strike illegally should be held in breach of contract and handed a pretty pink slip, or whatever colour a P45 is these days. I don't care how heartless this sounds, they did not give one solitary toss about the people they have affected, why should anyone care about them.
Further more, passengers affected as quoted, missing a major event, interview, business opportunity or whatever should be allowed to sue, not the companies involved, but the strikers.
That should focus their minds a little and act as a suitable deterrant against illegal action for the new staff employed in their place.
Earlier, pickets at Gate Gourmet's plant at Heathrow said the company had embarked on a sustained attempt to downgrade their pay and conditions even before last week's flashpoint.
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Likewise, "hear, hear & well said !" 
wherein it's just as I, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, intimated to previously.
Yep, just watch while permanent FlightCrew are done away with, in favour of direct entry contract crews.
Don't believe me? Well just look at the basis on how 'low cost' and certain charter airlines employ many of their pilots. Agency pilots are easily hired, and just as easily fired.... "Scroggins we won't be renewing your contract at the end of the month, good bye. Next !"
Yep, the boys and girls at BA coud be in for a nasty shock, outsourcing is airline managements preferred way forwarded and is soon to be headed to a Flight Operations department near you !
wherein it's just as I, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, intimated to previously.Yep, just watch while permanent FlightCrew are done away with, in favour of direct entry contract crews.
Don't believe me? Well just look at the basis on how 'low cost' and certain charter airlines employ many of their pilots. Agency pilots are easily hired, and just as easily fired.... "Scroggins we won't be renewing your contract at the end of the month, good bye. Next !"
Yep, the boys and girls at BA coud be in for a nasty shock, outsourcing is airline managements preferred way forwarded and is soon to be headed to a Flight Operations department near you !
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My prognosis for BA:
Bidline unilaterally withdrawn mid/late 2006.
Rostering to 900 hours across all fleets with no overtime agreement (unlike Virgin post 750 hours) attained within three months of bidline closure.
Loss of Licence scheme dramatically curtailed June 2006
NAPS defined benefit pension scheme closed to existing members Jan 2007.
BALPA strike called Feb 2007 in desperation as resignations reach epic propertions. Strike fails within three days.
BA flightcrew outsourced to Parc or similar on fixed term contracts by 2008/9.
And this is the future for the "gold standard" within the industry.
The independant sector will have to cut deeper and harder, - after all they dont have any of this overhead already and yet sustainable profitability is as elusive as ever - (sustainable equals a sufficient return on capital to re-invest in the means of production - aircraft etc - suggest circa 10% net operating ratio minimum).
It WILL get worse for all.
Bidline unilaterally withdrawn mid/late 2006.
Rostering to 900 hours across all fleets with no overtime agreement (unlike Virgin post 750 hours) attained within three months of bidline closure.
Loss of Licence scheme dramatically curtailed June 2006
NAPS defined benefit pension scheme closed to existing members Jan 2007.
BALPA strike called Feb 2007 in desperation as resignations reach epic propertions. Strike fails within three days.
BA flightcrew outsourced to Parc or similar on fixed term contracts by 2008/9.
And this is the future for the "gold standard" within the industry.
The independant sector will have to cut deeper and harder, - after all they dont have any of this overhead already and yet sustainable profitability is as elusive as ever - (sustainable equals a sufficient return on capital to re-invest in the means of production - aircraft etc - suggest circa 10% net operating ratio minimum).
It WILL get worse for all.
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A BA spokeswoman was quoted by BBC today as saying that "Fundamentally, I don't think we do (have an industrial relations problem)". From the BA website, we are told of the wildcat strike "this is an unprecedented situation." Really? Tell that to those whose business travel plans and hard earned holidays have been smashed in every summer peak for the last three years!
Many of the other BA department staff I have spoken to are livid with these people who have done this to the airline and our customers, and want to see firm action taken against the offenders. I agree, what were they trying to achieve? Their actions only had a negative effect on BA and wouldnt effect GG!!!
After driving past the picket line 6 times since it started, in the hope I might be able to continue with my job, I'm angry that whilst they stand there striking, which will not achieve anything in the favour of the sacked GG staff, everyone else suffers, especially stranded customers, but also including thousands of crew who are not earning any pay as a result whilst they are grounded.
The Gate Gourmet exec who was interviewed on Sky and ITN doesnt seem to want to take the blame for their actions and spent the most of the interview saying BA had issues and had caused it, totally oblivious to what he and his gun-ho overpaid colleagues had done. He even had the audacity to claim on TV that they had continued to supply catering to a normal standard to BA. Oh really? A first aid kit on each aircraft? Shall we share out the 30 throat lozenges between 200 customers in place of food???? Oh and what to drink? Dioralyte relief anyone?
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Those in BA who went on strike illegally should be held in breach of contract and handed a pretty pink slip, or whatever colour a P45 is these days.
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To those who say GG management are to blame for the BA strikes - I cannot follow your logic!
If I went out and killed someone because I was angry that GG had sacked a load of its workers, would that be GG's fault too?
The inconsiderate little BA buggers who went out on an unofficial strike are the ones to blame here I am afraid, and no one else. The fact that they felt they could get away with it is BA management's fault, pure and simple. This is now the third summer we have seen these disruptions, and yet BA management just tolerate it.
The more these guys get away with, the more they will take, because these people are TAKERS. The only way to stop it is to sack them. There is no right time to do it BA. If you had taken them on last year, you would have lost money, but you would have saved the 40M from this year's strikes. If you had taken them on the year before, you wouldn't have had to worry about the lead time needed for CRC's.
I am so demoralised with the A holes I work with, and the management who tolerate them, that I am seriously considering resigning. Why should I work towards a goal of making this a profitable company, when every year a bunch of selfish tossers waste millions, and if anything get rewarded for it? Last year they got Hotline tickets, this year, I expect they will be paid over time to sort things out...
It seems that BA management is nothing but a title!
If I went out and killed someone because I was angry that GG had sacked a load of its workers, would that be GG's fault too?
The inconsiderate little BA buggers who went out on an unofficial strike are the ones to blame here I am afraid, and no one else. The fact that they felt they could get away with it is BA management's fault, pure and simple. This is now the third summer we have seen these disruptions, and yet BA management just tolerate it.
The more these guys get away with, the more they will take, because these people are TAKERS. The only way to stop it is to sack them. There is no right time to do it BA. If you had taken them on last year, you would have lost money, but you would have saved the 40M from this year's strikes. If you had taken them on the year before, you wouldn't have had to worry about the lead time needed for CRC's.
I am so demoralised with the A holes I work with, and the management who tolerate them, that I am seriously considering resigning. Why should I work towards a goal of making this a profitable company, when every year a bunch of selfish tossers waste millions, and if anything get rewarded for it? Last year they got Hotline tickets, this year, I expect they will be paid over time to sort things out...
It seems that BA management is nothing but a title!
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Some people seem to be forgetting that the flights were not stopped by the lack of catering - they just went to sandwiches for long-haul. They were stopped by the illegal actions of some of the BA ground staff, who sould, ergo, be fired.
LTNman
They can selecively be fired. BA has been overstaffed in some of those areas for a long time. Perhaps some of the ring leaders sacked, others put on a warning.
LTNman
They can selecively be fired. BA has been overstaffed in some of those areas for a long time. Perhaps some of the ring leaders sacked, others put on a warning.
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I am not sure that just sacking the ringleaders and giving the others a warning is enough. They will just organise an official strike to protect the ringleaders. They all need sacking and then replacing. Yes it would mean a hell of a lot of disruption for a relatively long time, but this needs sorting. It's either now, or sometime in the future when our customers are so peeved that they have stopped flying with us. I'd rather get it sorted now and perhaps retain the customers. People will only take this kind of unplanned disruption so many times. It is not fair for us to keep putting them through it like this!
If I EVER see another member of cabin crew being kind enough to give a bus driver a newspaper, or a snack/beverage off the aircraft again, I am going to kick off. They deserve absolutely nothing in my opinion!
If I EVER see another member of cabin crew being kind enough to give a bus driver a newspaper, or a snack/beverage off the aircraft again, I am going to kick off. They deserve absolutely nothing in my opinion!
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An airline's management are solely responsible for their outsourced services, be they food, baggage handling or whatever. Remember travellers have a contract with the airline, not its suppliers.
I suspect that many of those travellers affected were/are travelling on cheap tickets. You get what you pay for! I doubt whether many full fare passengers bothered to hang around LHR waiting for BA or GG to get their acts together.
My view is that if you are travelling on a "five-bob" ticket, you must always be prepared to chuck it in the bin, and buy another one. Then you can argue with the airline at a later date - if they still exist.
Alternatively travel full fare, claim a refund or get the ticket endorsed to another airline, and rebook with a carrier who has less problems at that particular time. I have been forced down both these routes several times.
I suspect this sort of problem, once it is allowed to occur, is practically unmanageable on a RT basis. Faced with thousands of delayed passengers there is no contingency system that will solve it.
I incline to the view that BA is a particularly badly managed company, unwieldy due to its history, and with a disconnect between the managers at all levels and the professionals who are at the sharp end.
Added to which we Britiish are poor managers due to the inherent class structure in our society.
I'm sure there will be lots of blood on the carpet before similar events inevitably occur again.
jdb
I suspect that many of those travellers affected were/are travelling on cheap tickets. You get what you pay for! I doubt whether many full fare passengers bothered to hang around LHR waiting for BA or GG to get their acts together.
My view is that if you are travelling on a "five-bob" ticket, you must always be prepared to chuck it in the bin, and buy another one. Then you can argue with the airline at a later date - if they still exist.
Alternatively travel full fare, claim a refund or get the ticket endorsed to another airline, and rebook with a carrier who has less problems at that particular time. I have been forced down both these routes several times.
I suspect this sort of problem, once it is allowed to occur, is practically unmanageable on a RT basis. Faced with thousands of delayed passengers there is no contingency system that will solve it.
I incline to the view that BA is a particularly badly managed company, unwieldy due to its history, and with a disconnect between the managers at all levels and the professionals who are at the sharp end.
Added to which we Britiish are poor managers due to the inherent class structure in our society.
I'm sure there will be lots of blood on the carpet before similar events inevitably occur again.
jdb