BA Unofficial Strike ( Merged)
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Anyone blaming single sourcing is missing the point. It was not the lack of food that grounded the airline it was the actions of BA's own staff.
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Erm? -"I'm slightly surprised that BA seems to have put ALL it's business through this one supplier. It's called being "single sourced". Perhaps they should have had two suppliers to reduce the risk."
The risk was not the single sourced food suppliers, it is the BA employed "single source" of bus drivers, baggage handlers etc.
But then I think you knew that
The risk was not the single sourced food suppliers, it is the BA employed "single source" of bus drivers, baggage handlers etc.
But then I think you knew that
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OKC,
You are correct they probably do hold uk pasports, and canandian and indian and kenyan,tanzanian. Fact.
The people only see immigrants on strike, immigrant offspring bombing us, immigrant refugees.
Sympathy they wont get. Maybe the inland revenue should look more closly at the extended families in these communitiies and we might see a different picture about how much money they have. Fact.
You are correct they probably do hold uk pasports, and canandian and indian and kenyan,tanzanian. Fact.
The people only see immigrants on strike, immigrant offspring bombing us, immigrant refugees.
Sympathy they wont get. Maybe the inland revenue should look more closly at the extended families in these communitiies and we might see a different picture about how much money they have. Fact.
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Bart O'Lynn - err, you used the word 'Fact' to close your last post but just what is it that you're suggesting about Sikhism (et al) and / or its relationship to being a UK tax payer?
Is there something that you know about this relationship that the rest of us don't? If so, do pray tell the rest of us about it!
Aside - you've alluded to the case (tax wise - are you an Inspector' ?) that some might apparently be 'better healed' than one might expect - but since when did that become a crime? Indeed isn't this what we're all supposed to be striving for, or is it that this ambition is 'only ok for white folks', remembering that we're talking about people who aren't exactly rolling in it ?!
Why do you not mention the tax avoidance by RE & WW - or is that you see this as ok ?
Is there something that you know about this relationship that the rest of us don't? If so, do pray tell the rest of us about it!
Aside - you've alluded to the case (tax wise - are you an Inspector' ?) that some might apparently be 'better healed' than one might expect - but since when did that become a crime? Indeed isn't this what we're all supposed to be striving for, or is it that this ambition is 'only ok for white folks', remembering that we're talking about people who aren't exactly rolling in it ?!
Why do you not mention the tax avoidance by RE & WW - or is that you see this as ok ?
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The BA employees who walked out in support of the GG staff without the sanction of their Union should be ashamed of themselves. The misery they have caused to those who pay their mortgages is totally unacceptable. They have further damaged the reputation and business of their employer who as far as I can see had no control over the internal goings on at GG.
Having seen the footage of the staff meeting at GG I feel rubberneck has a very good point. Anger does not even begin to describe my feelings on this issue!
Having seen the footage of the staff meeting at GG I feel rubberneck has a very good point. Anger does not even begin to describe my feelings on this issue!
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Welcome back to middle ages.
What an appalling display of human nature most of the contributors on this forum give.
Apart from one or two sensible chaps able to explain why employees have been forced into that “illegal” strike by the ILLEGAL actions of their respective employers (nice post Justbelowcap), you can only hear the hatred cries of the well-off minority.
You can see how the fat cats of this country think and it’s pretty ugly, that obvious racism against Indians, Asians or even French that would allow to deprive these people of any means of subsistence, just because one passenger could not get pissed with his friends on the other side of the Atlantic.
The arrogance you are showing, your respect for the Law when it concerns your own little person, your love for democracy which explains why you are incensing Blair who lied to the people of this Country to fight his own little war (but after all who cares? People getting killed are under men: Iraqis or poor American and British soldiers) all this shows just a lack of basic humanity.
Britain is probably one of the richest country of this world, but only for the benefit of a very few happy fat cats. Don’t worry this will backfire very soon and the hatred cries of “kill the unions” will not be strong enough to save you.
Apart from one or two sensible chaps able to explain why employees have been forced into that “illegal” strike by the ILLEGAL actions of their respective employers (nice post Justbelowcap), you can only hear the hatred cries of the well-off minority.
You can see how the fat cats of this country think and it’s pretty ugly, that obvious racism against Indians, Asians or even French that would allow to deprive these people of any means of subsistence, just because one passenger could not get pissed with his friends on the other side of the Atlantic.
The arrogance you are showing, your respect for the Law when it concerns your own little person, your love for democracy which explains why you are incensing Blair who lied to the people of this Country to fight his own little war (but after all who cares? People getting killed are under men: Iraqis or poor American and British soldiers) all this shows just a lack of basic humanity.
Britain is probably one of the richest country of this world, but only for the benefit of a very few happy fat cats. Don’t worry this will backfire very soon and the hatred cries of “kill the unions” will not be strong enough to save you.
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So, have the check in staff who walked out in 2003 been punished? No.
just because one passenger could not get pissed with his friends on the other side of the Atlantic.
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Red Baron, please read La France qui tombe : Un constat clinique du déclin français and attend a basic economics course - then come back and tell us how we can save our country by emulating the fantastic success of the French social contract.
Outsourcing may be an effective solution in areas where:
a) the activity is not core to the business (be very wary of anything that is directly visible to your customers)
b) is a fungible commodity, freely available from multiple suppliers
c) the outsourcer is too small to gain economies of scale on its own (hardly the case for BA, I should have thought).
However the real reason for outsourcing is that cunning bean-counters can massage the figures to show a short-term gain to the bottom line (rather like sale and leaseback of a building). The process can be repeated as many times as there are functions to outsource. Eventually, the sh1t hits the fan, but by then the management and bean-counters are long gone, their pockets stuffed with gold.
Outsourcing may be an effective solution in areas where:
a) the activity is not core to the business (be very wary of anything that is directly visible to your customers)
b) is a fungible commodity, freely available from multiple suppliers
c) the outsourcer is too small to gain economies of scale on its own (hardly the case for BA, I should have thought).
However the real reason for outsourcing is that cunning bean-counters can massage the figures to show a short-term gain to the bottom line (rather like sale and leaseback of a building). The process can be repeated as many times as there are functions to outsource. Eventually, the sh1t hits the fan, but by then the management and bean-counters are long gone, their pockets stuffed with gold.
Last edited by Pax Vobiscum; 14th Aug 2005 at 10:23.
Interestingly enough, GG doesn't appear to have particularly low levels of absolute efficiency in their UK operation - average meals produced per employee per day (according to GG's website) is 43, compared with LSG-Skychefs 28 per employee per day worldwide.
I'd say that GG's problems are their reduced economies of scale stemming from the loss of Virgin and the exorbitantly expensive and inefficient working practices that the TGWU has defended all these years.
Plus slack management.
But obviously the real culprits are the bleeding Krauts at LSG-SkyChefs who enticed Virgin away in the first place....
I'd say that GG's problems are their reduced economies of scale stemming from the loss of Virgin and the exorbitantly expensive and inefficient working practices that the TGWU has defended all these years.
Plus slack management.
But obviously the real culprits are the bleeding Krauts at LSG-SkyChefs who enticed Virgin away in the first place....
I still don't see why outsourcing a major part of your business leads to reduced costs. The management has to exist somewhere! Certainly, in my experience, outsourcing leads to a reduction in the supplied service and is done, despite all the BS, to reduce costs in the short term. Sometimes in the long term, employees at the bottom of the chain learn to get along with less. A classic example here is NHS cleaning - we have filthy hospitals because the money isn't spent on cleaners. At my place of work, they cut the costs of the cleaning. So we have no waste paper containers by our desks, and have to walk to the end of the room every time and sort the waste into 'confidential' 'ordinary waste paper' and 'other waste'. Do this with 50 engineers charged at $125 per hour, and the savings become paper savings only. Management looks good. Very like Dilbert, isn't it?
So the best argument for BA outsourcing the catering is that they can get it cheaper. That means that they should have very strict quality control, too. I can't say I've found meals on either SH or LH that bad recently, although I wouldn't say they were good, either. But if they're that bad that SH pilots won't eat them, then there's quality control factor missing at BA. I suspect that flights are going without catering now because if BA went elsewhere for their catering, the ground staff whose relatives would be out of a job would be out on strike again. But in the longer term, BA should be looking to go elsewhere. GG should be the ones paying compensation, and if that sends them bankrupt, that's life. Alternatively, take the catering back in house.
I find it very interesting that there's the odd rumour that the T&G told their members in BA to go back to work, but haven't seen it on the news - or on the T & G website. If they really were trying, they would expel members in BA who went on unofficial strike. Just like the railway unions in the 1860s - a member drunk on duty would get expelled from the union as well as probably losing his job. So I can only conclude that the T & G do not care about the immorality of the unlawful strike, or for that matter, the legality of it.
I appreciate that many BA employees are furious about this, and that many PAX will abandon BA. I've had 25 flights on them this year so far (would have been 26 except for the strike!) and expect to do another 16 or so before Christmas. Stick in there people - some of us will stay with BA.
So the best argument for BA outsourcing the catering is that they can get it cheaper. That means that they should have very strict quality control, too. I can't say I've found meals on either SH or LH that bad recently, although I wouldn't say they were good, either. But if they're that bad that SH pilots won't eat them, then there's quality control factor missing at BA. I suspect that flights are going without catering now because if BA went elsewhere for their catering, the ground staff whose relatives would be out of a job would be out on strike again. But in the longer term, BA should be looking to go elsewhere. GG should be the ones paying compensation, and if that sends them bankrupt, that's life. Alternatively, take the catering back in house.
I find it very interesting that there's the odd rumour that the T&G told their members in BA to go back to work, but haven't seen it on the news - or on the T & G website. If they really were trying, they would expel members in BA who went on unofficial strike. Just like the railway unions in the 1860s - a member drunk on duty would get expelled from the union as well as probably losing his job. So I can only conclude that the T & G do not care about the immorality of the unlawful strike, or for that matter, the legality of it.
I appreciate that many BA employees are furious about this, and that many PAX will abandon BA. I've had 25 flights on them this year so far (would have been 26 except for the strike!) and expect to do another 16 or so before Christmas. Stick in there people - some of us will stay with BA.
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quote:just because one passenger could not get pissed with his friends on the other side of the Atlantic.
Tell that to those who missed family weddings, who have had hard earned holidays ruined etc. Why do they not deserve any sympathy? Though having read the rest of Rouge's posts I am not expecting a mature or intelligent response to that. He clearly has no comprehension of the impact of this strike on the reasons these people have jobs in the first place.
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Tell that to those who missed family weddings, who have had hard earned holidays ruined etc. Why do they not deserve any sympathy? Though having read the rest of Rouge's posts I am not expecting a mature or intelligent response to that. He clearly has no comprehension of the impact of this strike on the reasons these people have jobs in the first place.
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You are a royalty who has had his 5000 £ party ruined by those poor buggers who have either lost anything, or showed support to their friends because they perfectly know that if they accept any more of your bullying, they will be the next to be hit.
I tell you your human behaviour is worst than anything in this world and your answer is completely up to that level... worst of all you think because you have money you can treat others as slaves...
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Monsieur le Baron,
Vous donnez les francais et les francophones une reputation encore plus mauvaise qu'ils n'ont deja en Angleterre. Alors, arretez et soyez un peu moins arrogant. L'Angleterre et la France sont deux pays different, avec leur propres problemes, mais ni l'un ni l'autre est meilleur.
N'etes vous, sois-disant, pas un aristocrat vous meme, monsieur le 'Baron'?
Modestie et intelligence, s'il vous plait.
Le Chien Bleu
Vous donnez les francais et les francophones une reputation encore plus mauvaise qu'ils n'ont deja en Angleterre. Alors, arretez et soyez un peu moins arrogant. L'Angleterre et la France sont deux pays different, avec leur propres problemes, mais ni l'un ni l'autre est meilleur.
N'etes vous, sois-disant, pas un aristocrat vous meme, monsieur le 'Baron'?
Modestie et intelligence, s'il vous plait.
Le Chien Bleu
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I do not want to get involved with the ins and outs of the legality etc. Just want to pose a question to a few posters on here.
There has been much talk about BA's "Single Source" supply. I agree it is risky. For those who have posted that BA should rid of GG and source elsewhere, or even keep GG and bring on another supplier... Where do you suppose BA could go?
It seems to me that BA is rather cornered. Virgin can easily move catering supplier, as the operation is no where near the size of BA. What does BA do? Also if GG run out of money and go under, where can BA conceivably go?
It has been said on this forum (whether true or not I do not know) that GG produce over 43 meals per person where LSG are doing about 28. Can LSG up their game to produce levels of this quantity and still maintain the quality that the large airlines demand? I would imagine on paper BA could go to the likes of LSG, Do-Co and the others, but logistically this would be a nightmare.
There has been much talk about BA's "Single Source" supply. I agree it is risky. For those who have posted that BA should rid of GG and source elsewhere, or even keep GG and bring on another supplier... Where do you suppose BA could go?
It seems to me that BA is rather cornered. Virgin can easily move catering supplier, as the operation is no where near the size of BA. What does BA do? Also if GG run out of money and go under, where can BA conceivably go?
It has been said on this forum (whether true or not I do not know) that GG produce over 43 meals per person where LSG are doing about 28. Can LSG up their game to produce levels of this quantity and still maintain the quality that the large airlines demand? I would imagine on paper BA could go to the likes of LSG, Do-Co and the others, but logistically this would be a nightmare.
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Baron rouge
You obviously have not had to deal with the French Unions! If you had and were trying to keep a business afloat you might understand why jobs are moving east and realise that the French social contract is more likely to backfire than the English system.
You obviously have not had to deal with the French Unions! If you had and were trying to keep a business afloat you might understand why jobs are moving east and realise that the French social contract is more likely to backfire than the English system.
italianjon
The numbers surprised me too.
I got the GG numbers from their website (differentiated by catering location) and divided total meals per day by total empoyees.
Did the same for LSG - total annual meals divided by total staff divided by 365. Check them yourself - the information is in the public domain.
I would imagine that LSG would jump at the chance to get BA's contract and - given that they cater for LH out of Germany - I can't imagine they'd have a problem with quantities or quality. Big ramp-up though.
The risk assessment issue is an interesting aspect - if you have catering requirements of the size of BA/LH/AF, who can pick up their game on short notice to jump in? I would hazard a guess and say: no-one.
An interesting question for the next shareholder meeting, what?
The numbers surprised me too.
I got the GG numbers from their website (differentiated by catering location) and divided total meals per day by total empoyees.
Did the same for LSG - total annual meals divided by total staff divided by 365. Check them yourself - the information is in the public domain.
I would imagine that LSG would jump at the chance to get BA's contract and - given that they cater for LH out of Germany - I can't imagine they'd have a problem with quantities or quality. Big ramp-up though.
The risk assessment issue is an interesting aspect - if you have catering requirements of the size of BA/LH/AF, who can pick up their game on short notice to jump in? I would hazard a guess and say: no-one.
An interesting question for the next shareholder meeting, what?
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Bluedog,
Where on my posts did you see me even mention the French society ?
I was just amazed by the behaviour of those intervening on this thread, as they said that their own little trip to the other side of the world to get pissed with friends and relatives was much more important than the fate of those poor workers loosing their jobs because of the poor management, and socialess behaviour of their employers.
One should relativise everything and getting illegaly jobless is one of the worst thing that can happen to an individual but loosing one or two days of hollydays is nothing compared to that drama.
If you, as most of the people on this thread, don't see all the elderly people forced to work to the end of their life to survive... It is not because they do not exist it is just because to your eyes they do not exist, the same way the poor do not exist... they just ruin your day if they pretend to live decently.
Politeness is another of your big quality !!! Why adress me in French so that nobody else on this forum can understand ?
Where on my posts did you see me even mention the French society ?
I was just amazed by the behaviour of those intervening on this thread, as they said that their own little trip to the other side of the world to get pissed with friends and relatives was much more important than the fate of those poor workers loosing their jobs because of the poor management, and socialess behaviour of their employers.
One should relativise everything and getting illegaly jobless is one of the worst thing that can happen to an individual but loosing one or two days of hollydays is nothing compared to that drama.
If you, as most of the people on this thread, don't see all the elderly people forced to work to the end of their life to survive... It is not because they do not exist it is just because to your eyes they do not exist, the same way the poor do not exist... they just ruin your day if they pretend to live decently.
Politeness is another of your big quality !!! Why adress me in French so that nobody else on this forum can understand ?
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Yesterday its UK managing director, millionaire Eric Born, was at the Hilton Hotel at Heathrow's Terminal 4 in talks with Transport and General Workers' Union national secretary Brendan Gold to thrash out a peace deal. The T&GWU wants the immediate reinstatement of sacked staff, plus guarantees on benefits to lift wages averaging £12,000.
Mr Born, 34, is also the sole director of Versa Logistics, a company set up earlier this year to bring in lowerpaid workers from Eastern Europe if there was a walkout.
Happy to state last week through a spokesman that Eastern European workers were prepared to work for less money, he lives in a £1m converted barn at Crowsley, Oxfordshire, with his wife and two children
taken from http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/ar..._id=2&ito=1565
Mr Born, 34, is also the sole director of Versa Logistics, a company set up earlier this year to bring in lowerpaid workers from Eastern Europe if there was a walkout.
Happy to state last week through a spokesman that Eastern European workers were prepared to work for less money, he lives in a £1m converted barn at Crowsley, Oxfordshire, with his wife and two children
taken from http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/ar..._id=2&ito=1565