BA Unofficial Strike ( Merged)

[lomapaseo]

I can't believe that some folks are arguing poor working conditions, lousy pay and farm out of jobs as justification for this mess.

The strike is illegal because of the knock-on effects. That's why its illegal and that's why all the the justification isn't worth sqwat.

It's kind of like the 20 yr old who knocks off a person or two during a robbery and then pleads that he's had a hard life and that's why he did it.

It seems to me that the only discussion should be what punishment fits the situation.

[Railgun]

"The CAS flt is a GB operation no doubt loaded by GB staff."

GB are handled on the ground by BA are checked in by BA are Dispatched by BA etc......

[JamesT73J]

The only people who think £7.00/hr is a good wage are those who've never had to live on it in the South East.

That being said, illegal strikes are stupid, do not actually empower employees at all (merely handing the reigns over to someone else) and just destroy business.

[ZFT]

Lomapaseo

Please don’t misunderstand me. I am in NO way trying to justify an ILLEGAL strike.

It is a comment from a ‘BA Shareholder’ stating that £7 per hour is “Not bad earnings in anyone's books” that just gets up my nose – I read a different book.

[Brummy]

Gate Gourmet strike

Twelve pages of comments about this strike which was probably instigated by a totally inept management at GG but not one word about their chief strategist.
Who is the CEO running their show ? One David Siegel. Sound familiar? The same useless ****** who walked away from failure and screwing US Airways, pushing a large barrow containing many millions of dollars. Eddington should be making preparations, as we speak, to deprive him of his ill gotten gains.
The T and G workers who came out on strike should also have plenty of time to ruminate on their actions. Preferably while working their way through the application forms at the job centre.

[TopBunk]

You can argue the merits and demerits all day long about what is a reasonable rate of pay, but, whatever conclusion you come to, you have to ask the question:

Do these Gate Gourmet people honestly believe that going on strike when their employer is in dire straights is going to:

1. Get them to capitulate and give them more money
2. Get BA to bail out their company to the tune of £50m

or

1. Cause BA to look elsewhere for some or all of their catering needs, thereby
2. Causing Gate Gourmet to go bust, thereby
3. Letting someone else take over the BA contract, thereby
4. Seeing the expanding Catering provider to BA offering them jobs at less than Gate Gourmet was asking them to accept.

This may be considered as being heartless, and yes I would defend anyones right to take lawful balloted strike action, but we are dealing with reality here.

By taking this action they have signed their own P45's - I hope the same can be said about the wildcat strikers and their T&G union reps in BA.

[5by5]

Airbubba - The word xenophobe comes readily to mind and wherein to balance it up just a little here are some pictures of the aftermath caused by heroic American workers fighting foreigners and oppression in the third world (to paraphrase your own words ):

http://www.humanistart.com/images/nick_ut.jpg

[Baron rouge]

Your problem with unskilled labour is that you think they are undermen with no rights and in fact your gouvernment as issued laws to deprive these people of their right of strike.

You are all so pathetic with your shouting "this strike is illegal lets hang the leaders and fire the rest of them"..

British workforce is waking up and it is just the beginning... wait until they realise how much nuisance power they hold and how much damage they can inflict to you the fat cats who despise them so much...

And if the English society is so good, can anyone explain me why so many children, so many elderly people have to work for ridiculous salaries, without social protection in the streets of your cities.

Wake up men, Britain has never been richer and there never has been so many poor people in your streets.

[Tornado Ali]

5by5....I don't agree with everything the USA does, but sitting here in Blighty, and looking back through history, I can certainly state that the world is a whole lot better off with the USA than without. Perhaps we would have been better off under a Nazi admintistration, or a Soviet one...or a Chinese one. Yea, much better choices.... ps, as per your Vietnam photo, the girl in question was in the USA only two months ago, and mentioned that she believed that Vietnam was poorer for the fact that Hanoi won the war.......or do you think living under a Communist dictatorship is paradise...? Perhaps it's time to consider that this forum, and the ability to say what we like is only possible because of the sacrifice of the men and women of the USA and other like minded democracies. Also, I looked at the photos that Airbubba included. Question: am I looking at photos taken in the UK...or downtown Bangalore...? Perhaps this is indicative of a certain 'explosive' problem we are now seeing in London...hmm? If you can't see the woods for the trees me old fella...perhaps YOU are the one who is a xenophobe. And no, I don't think those charming 'old dears' are building bombs....but as for their children....? Rant over.

Baron Rouge. Typical Frenchman.

[Airbubba]

Well, at least Gate Gourmet's CEO is, you guessed it, an American...

[WeLieInTheShadows]

At the end of the day it's all crap isn't it?

GG know they're going to go bust so they ask BA for 25M to keep them afloat.

BA say "NO" and GG have to restructure.

Staff say "NO" GG staff (on old BA contracts) go on strike.

Why BA ground stafff and drivers would go out in sympathy is beyond me despite their connections!

I'm crew at LGW and this is f******g crazy. We've busted our arses for years and these t****rs ruin it for us all.

No delays down here just full flights and us picking us the slack!

Well I've always been pro company and this is no fault of the company's, they are an unfortunate vctim of circumstance. I have no sympathy for the sympathy strikers (I am a union member) and will not support this action and will not support their cause and hope they are all brought to task.

You will find all crew at all bases are of this view.

We support discussion and talks not wildcat strikes or walk outs.

I despair for us all at BA and have nothing but contempt for those who have tarnished our reputation again and destroyed our customers faith in our great airline.

Shame on you all!!!

[Sunfish]

Guys, this is managements fault, plain and simple. BA's management and GG's management.

If you are a striker who has just been sacked, do you care if you take the businesss down with you? No. Its called mutual suicide.

Now managers of large and complex organisations, smart managers, realise that their staff have this ultimate power. They take care to ensure that it is never used, usually by using "Fabianism" to institute change, nibbling away constantly at costs and conditions.

Smart procurement managers also make damn sure that their vital suppliers are making a profit and remain viable, for the reasons you are expereincing right now. I was taught this in my first job. Sure you screw till the pips squeak, but they must know that at the end of the negotaiting process that you are still viable. Alarm bells should have been ringing at BA long ago about GG.

Whats needed now is for the Government to get into the act and be a circuit breaker. Convene talks immediately and work out a solution.

The other way (which is very risky) is to escalate the crisis to the point where all of BA's staff are alarmed at the prospect of the company going under, and gladly watch as management rips up all your employment contracts and starts again with a lower cost structure, trimmed condtions of employment as well as massive outsourcing and redundancies. This is the so called "freeze - unfreeze- then freeze again" method. At the end of it, BA staff would be glad to have ANY job, never mind the conditions.

It happened in Australia in 1990-1991. We don't do many strikes here anymore.

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Tornado Ali

How right you are. Despite much of the foolish and ill-conceived anti-American propaganda we are subjected to here in the UK, there are many people who see America for the friend it is. I am unashamedley pro-USA. They have been our greatest friend in our darkest hours and if we face a choice in the future about backing Europe or the USA, I'd take the USA every time.

Baron rouge

You seem to be mistaken - there are not thousands of women and children lying starving on the street of Britain. We have people flocking from every country on Earth to be part of the huge success we enjoy here - and that is one of our problems! We are the world's 4th richest country and are flourishing while Europe flounders. Why is that? It is because we abandoned socialism to the dustbin of history. Why is France stuck with high unemployment and low growth you may be asking yourself? Because the 'workers' have risen up and marched the streets shouting the odds whilst expecting greater rewards for less effort. We went through years of socialism in the 60s and 70s. We had union leaders standing on the steps of 10 Downing Street announcing the latest blow they had administered to our country's standing in the eyes of the world. Our TV stations used to broadcast the latest utterings of our union leaders at their conferences. Now our unions are a fraction of their original size and most people could not name a single union leader in the country. I hope we never return to being the 'sick man of Europe' - fortunately France is fighting hard to keep that place. You can have your revolution - we will just be glad to keep our success.

People in the UK who lived through the unions' heyday would die rather than see it return which is why they are so horrified by what is happening at BA. Those folks in BA who strike each year had better wake up - we live in a hard world now where there will be no shortage of people waiting to take the place of the national carrier if they fall. To all those people at BA who want to work - my heart goes out to you. I hope you get this sorted soon.

[Tornado Ali]

Norman SF , I too am appalled by the knee-jerk anti-americanism that far too many of our population parrot...without thinking about the facts of history. Something about Lenin's 'Usefull Idiots' comes to mind. Although I am not a fan of Tony Blair, I admire his ability to see through the obvious 'easy politics' that would have been his for the taking, and intstead stood up to the naieve sentiments of most of the UK population and his own party to do what will be seen in history as a brave, moral and principled stand. As to the subject at hand, this strike is far too reminicient of the 60's and 70's, as you so rightly pointed out. The sooner that such action is pushed out of our major industries and companies, the better. As for France....it supplies a constant source of amusement...

[172 driver]

Baron rouge - thank you for the 'French' view of the situation. You are clearly misinformed and misguided; we aren't full of children and elderly women working for little pay, and you'll find that the vast majority of the UK abhor what was an illegal strike. The laws that made this strike illegal were created by a democratically elected government. You may remember the concept, although you currently have an unelected Prime Minister.

I imagine that Norman Stanley Fletcher's comments (have you been let out?) sum up the view of a large proportion of the UK population. I'm a frequent visitor to France and I enjoy spending time with French people - but you need to wake up to the modern world. The UK, while appearing a short term threat to the French, aren't a problem - it's the Chinese and Indians who really represent a threat - and Good Luck to them. There's no particular reason why Western Europeans should have a better standard of living than people from these developing nations, unless we achieve greater standards of productivity.

Unless you wake up to this fact and are prepared to compete with these people, your future prosperity is at risk.

If you think you're going to benefit by slagging us off while ignoring the real competition, you're sadly mistaken.

[777fly]

The national media seem to be blaming BA for the grounding of its flights due to secondary ( unofficial) strike action by certain of its staff. They have failed to highlight the actual facts behind the current situation, which are as follows:

1.Some years ago, BA contracted out it's catering services to Gate Gourmet. Many ex-BA staff transferred ( unwillingly, one might expect) to the new contractor. Many of the established BA agreements and practises of that time went with them, significantly a triple-pay overtime rate.

2. Since 9/11, BA has neccessarily put a squeeze on it's contracters in order to reduce costs and maintain profitability. This has affected Gate Gourmet, who have recently been making significant losses.

3. Gate Gourmet have responded to this situation by hiring 130 temporary staff in order to reduce crippling overtime rates during the peak holiday period. The union reaction was predictably disruptive. Gate Gourmet have been in lengthy discussion with the unions over this situation and warned that staff failing to accept the neccessary measures would be sacked. This is what happened - they were warned.

4. More than 90% of the Gate Gourmet staff are of asian origin, most are ex-BA. Within BA, there are many of their family and friends working in baggage handling and related ares. These are the staff taking (illegal)sympathetic action.

These are the facts. Don't blame BA.

[Send Clowns]

Baron Rouge

They had work, were concerned about redundancy in an area where unemployment is probably about 1%. What about in France? 12% unemployment, no sign of reducing?

No-one said they had no rights, you just made that up to make it sound like those arguing against you are wrong. If you have to base your argument on a lie it must be weak indeed. They have many employment rights, and much protection, as do all workers in the UK. However they walked straight into what was possibly a trap laid by management, went outside their rights and were quite legally sacked for it.

Strikes won't seriously damage British industry as you suggest because we don't have the ridiculous French battle between management and workers as a normality of life any more. Public opinion would not stand for it, a view the French are starting to develop. Management sometimes make errors or operate against workers interests, and unions or their members do stupid things, so sometimes there are strikes, but these are now rare, as the procedures to deal with the issues are balanced.

The unions do not hold power, yet have the authority to protect their workers' actual rights (actual, as opposed to the bizarre idea that workers have the right to jobs regardless of whether they are needed or not). With that balance (which is admittedly getting a bit one-sided again, towards workers, hence the increase in militancy) good labour relations have been possible that are not possible without worker representation or when unions are too powerful.

We know that French unions have too much power. We suffer just from living next door to a nation that can't function effectively, where workers irritated that they can't have longer breaks and more money disrupt third parties who have no power in the issue at hand. Get your own house in order, don't try to spread your disruption here!

[Conan The Barber]

As Airbubba already sarcastically pointed out, most of the people laid off by GG are, how should we put it.....of a dark complexion. I suppose that's also the motivation behind Ali's post.

[172 driver]

Conan The Barber , IMHO there isn't any religious or racial aspect to any of this. From your comment, I assume you agree.....

[Max Tow]

Dear Rod & Willie (by mail but copied here on the off chance that you or your colleagues read this website because I am sure my letter will never find its way to your desk at Waterside).

A BA spokeswoman was quoted by BBC today as saying that "Fundamentally, I don't think we do (have an industrial relations problem)". From the BA website, we are told of the wildcat strike "this is an unprecedented situation."

Really? Tell that to those whose business travel plans and hard earned holidays have been smashed in every summer peak for the last three years!

The lack of control over BA's unreformed ground operation at LHR and its working practices have been a well known industry joke and a festering sore for as long as I can recall, and since the days of John King, no senior manager has had the balls to sort things out. Just keep the lid on it chaps and wait for the pension.

In any decent organisation, such as those with whom I have had the pleasure of being involved over the years, letting down the customer is the worst, last resort and if a supplier fails to provide for whatever reason, all hands go to the pump to keep the service delivery going. So why, after all the investment in exercises such as the "Putting People First" and "BA Way" programmes, can't BA achieve this understanding of the connection between job security and customer satisfaction in enough of its workforce to keep the show on the road? Even if customers count for nothing, why also is there an insufficient spirit of community to prevent one section of the workforce from deliberately making life hell for the rest? This is not a question about the rights and wrongs of the GG dispute, which did not bring BA to a halt, but about how today's BA has been brought down by its own staff in a way that leaves many of us horrified.

What has happened in BA in recent years is symptomatic of an untended sickness within that company which is at times like these a disgrace to UK plc and a tragedy for those within. In the climate of rising fuel prices and declining travel to London under the terrorist threat, the action of these particular BA staff is not just irresponsible, it's murderous to the prospects of a once proud flag carrier and the tens of thousands who do their best within it.

Having been just one insignificant victim of today's latest blow (family wedding overseas ruined), and witnessed at T4 the consequences of the deliberately inflicted suffering by elements of BA's workforce upon its customers, I return home to find that the stockmarket has marked BA shares down by less than 1 per cent, which seems unreal but at least will give me a chance to bail out on Monday morning!

BA News next Friday will no doubt bear glad tidings of how magnificently everyone coped rather than how the customers were made to suffer once again by the deliberate action of a group of "colleagues". The precedent set by BA's lack of reaction to the last check in staff walk-out made today's events pretty inevitable. More bonuses and Hotline tickets everyone?

Is the new management up to the challenge? I hope so for those within, but for me, that's it...as a customer (since 1969) and shareholder (since 1988), I'm gone.

I note from today's Times that BA may seek to avoid compensating the 70,000 customers because events were outside its control. Maybe that's the saddest truth.