New routes for Bristols new extension

[a bristolian]

FCA

Chris

I shall remember your post , there's a saying you know-never say NEVER!!.

FC are taking seats out of their B767-300ER's which will reduce pax cpax from 312 to 258. First aircraft to be delivered with new 'Star' class cabin is any day now - first BRS flight .just have to wait and see!!!

[Confirmed Must Ride]

With the addition of winglets on the 757 the runway should no longer an issue. Off 27 (i think the longer, forgive me if other way) the 757 has no problems even fully laden. It is just 09 that it gets tight and that is when the temp gets up.

[GrahamK]

a bristolian, remember a 767 is no 757 although there does seem to be demand for a SFB service from BRS I would have thought

[CWL_Chris]

I am not saying that there is no demand, what I am saying is that I believe a 767 service could be operated more profitably from CWL, as well as 757 service to EWR.

I would very much like to see BRS grow, however there is limited room to expand at BRS and also due to the shorter runway, some services will not be possible. Unlike with CWL.

I know that some people have said that there is plenty of demand for a service in the Southwest and Wales to EWR, BRS has managed to get this route with CO.

Even with this service, you would be surprised by the amount of people in Wales that would rather fly from LHR or LGW rather than BRS if there was no service from CWL... sad, but true.

This is why I believe that a 757/767 service to EWR/JFK from CWL would work.

As for the SFB and other North American markets, these are covered by MYT & Travel City for Orlando and Florida and for YYZ - Zoom Airlines.

Finally, there was an article on CWL's website stating that they were approaching some airlines on services to the Eastern Seaboard (this was after the CO announcement BTW), Mexico, other Canadian destinations as well as Cuba.

Regards,

Chris

[terrier21]

Sorry Chris Ill tell the person who gave me this information (who works at CWL,BRS,EXT up into the midlands and sometimes down at LGW and who is a fairly big player) that they dont know what they are talking about!!! Lets just wait and see shall we?

''you would be surprised by the amount of people in Wales that would rather fly from LHR or LGW rather than BRS if there was no service from CWL... ''

Funny saying that you would be suprised that about half of BRS's pax are from the south Wales.

Oh and Chris you'll be suprised at the amount of people in the west who would rather drive to MAN than fly CWL!

touche!!!

T21

[WATABENCH]

Firstly, I previously worked for Bakers Dolphin Travel in the west country which are all now First Choice shops and there is more than enough demand for these routes from the SW/S-Wales.
Secondly FCA and BIA were in London last week discussing the possibility of starting a SFB from BRS, and its looking quite possible with a tech stop in SNN for fuel.
Thirdly BIA are begging FCA to do other long haul routes but FCA are holding back a bit and seeing what BIA can offer them, as BIA have said things along the lines of guarenteed front stands for their 321's doing the short hauls, also i've been told they have extended the loading area out the back so it allows for the turning freely of LD8s.
And fourth on the agenda, FCA won't be putting baseing a 767 in CWL as they only operate the summer season from there and would not be able to get enough crew from the S-Wales area.

So Chris, I think you may be haunted by your NEVER comments, if the rest of us are wrong then we'll all get down on our knees beg for your forgiveness - only joking but i can't agree with you i'm afraid.

[CWL_Chris]

I just cannot understand why FCA would base an aircraft in BRS that would need a fuel stop in SNN, when they could operate from CWL.

As for "half of the passengers at BRS being from Wales".. that is rubbish. The actual figure is around 21% of total passengers are from Wales at BRS. However, at CWL there are also a lot of passengers from the Southwest travelling to CWL, at 17% of total passengers.

Regards,

Chris

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Without wanting to get into a willy waving competition about whose got the bestest airport the stark facts remains that BRS hosts 7 (soon 8) easyJets 5 BA Embraers a native Britannia and a native First Choice.

Thats a lot of jets on the apron of a morning compared to Cardiffs clutch of slightly ageing jets.

Clearly one airport either has a better catchment area than the other OR has some incredibly good management. Or possibly both. Which is probably why one is getting a transatlantic service and the other isn't.

Personally I'd shut both as being unsatisfactory, bulldoze down those awful housing estates and open up Filton as the new major airport of the Southwest/SouthWales.

WWW

[WATABENCH]

WWW,
That sounds like a sterling plan, unfortunatly the lovable or should that be laughable local councils in the BRS and CWL didn't wish to do this 10 years ago, I think we've already done this one on this thread!
Now were stuck with a Fog bound to big for its boots airport on the edge of the Mendips,
And a mass expanse of space in Barry that would be more use as a Pontins Holiday Village, ceratinly attract more business.
But hey we love them really and its great to see BRS doing so well, and I think now CWL has been brought it'll soon pick up.
I can't help thinking that as I said before it would make more sense and also boost Irish First Choice business to do half loads from BRS, pick up other pax and fuel in DUB and then onward to SFB etc, you can kill 3 birds with one stone thus providing Long Haul to both the SW and Wales as well as Southern Ireland.
Yes CWL does have the obvious longer runway but I would imagine if FCA were to do the route from a new area then they want to be the first and not have to compete with others like they would have to with Travelcity in CWL, thats probably why they are favouring BRS, also its a busy base for them and was 3rd busiest for FCA flights last Summer, coming behind the obvious LGW/MAN, it dealt with more flights than BHX and GLA.

Also they\'re probably being offered an amzing deal by the Majic makers of BRS\'s marketing dept!

Sorry bout the spelling cock up above, well i am from the west country after all!

[MerchantVenturer]

I hope this is not going to become a BRS v CWL argument.

Both airports are excellent facilities for locals and for people from further away, and both have their plus points and their minus points. They are both relatively inaccessible. BRS has the larger catchment and CWL the longer runway. CWL has a better weather record although the Cat III on BRS’s westerly runway has addressed the problem significantly.

The Bristol region is an exceptionally prosperous one, both from a business point of view and for people wanting, and financially able, to travel for leisure. Cardiff is the Welsh capital and the Assembly is understandably anxious for the country to have an airport that reflects well on the Principality, thus it is to provide a route development fund to try to secure services and will also do its best to promote the airport in the wider field.

As a passenger I regard the airports as complementary rather than as rivals. There will always be people who will not fly from one for various reasons. For example, on a local radio ‘phone-in last year a man with a clear Bristolian accent vowed he will never use BRS again because the parking attendant was rude to him and the airport did nothing when he complained.

The latest figures I have seen (provided by the respective airports) show around 15% of BRS’s pax (about 700,000) emanate from South Wales, and around 10% of CWL’s pax (about 200,000) emanate from Bristol and the west country.

I’m not quite sure if Chris is saying that a 757 CO service to EWR would do better from CWL than from BRS. The aircraft to be used are 172-seaters with winglets and I read (my technical knowledge does not enable me to form a judgement) that the BRS runway will be no impediment. If Chris thinks there is a bigger potential market in South Wales I would be surprised. I guess that CO made its decision on commercial grounds.

As for the BRS runway, there is land available at the eastern end for an extension but this would need the winning of the hearts and minds of some locals and of the environmental lobby, as well as the necessary legal permissions and the bridging of the A 38.

Last year’s government paper on aviation envisaged 12 million pax through BRS by 2030 and this would need a second terminal and possibly an extended runway. The way things are going (5 million pax in 2005) 12 million could be reached far sooner. And anyway, who is to know what technical developments might occur in the forthcoming years. Aircraft might be able to fly to California direct from the current BRS runway by then.

And then there is a place called Filton but that’s another story…………………………

[WindSheer]

Hello all,

It always comes down to an England v Wales thing - it always will JUST REMEMBER WHO WON THE RUGBY THIS YEAR .

Jokes aside, I think with the FCA thing we are looking too much into the airline side of things. Its entirely governed by the FC commercial guys, who lets face it with such a presence around South West England want to keep it that way and will be very keen to start long haul from BRS, short runway or not.

CWL is an entirely different thing. FC are quite happy to sit an A320 at CWL, give it a full programme and watch it pull a few quid in - not too bothered about expansion due to such a massive Lunn Poly, Going places presence in Wales.

If you want my real opinion on long haul, I think you will see both BRS AND CWL see some FCA long haul in the next 3 - 4 years. Not a lot (certainly at CWL), but some. When the 6 787's are delivered in 2009?, well then its a whole new ball game. BRS could well see one based there from the word go, now that would be interesting................................................. ......

[WATABENCH]

Well I'm sure we'll all be waiting with baited breath for FCA's decision, but lets look at reality, we heard the same sort of stuff regarding FCA this time last year and they put the 767s into EMA/NCL instead, something must be wrong at BHX as they still haven't got any long haul with FCA, after it was pulled a couple of years back, yet they're happy to go out of EMA! spose it's something to do with untapped market at EMA, lets hope they think the same of BRS.
Anybody herd anything about the new EZY routes yet?
Apparently EZY-8 is coming in June i've been told this morning.

Also Terrier,
You say a caribbean route and another destination, i think MLE could work well from BRS and its a seat filler for FCA all the time from LGW/MAN

[terrier21]

www.bristolairport.co.uk has now been redeveloped. Its a shame the new routes arent on there and it has Prague down as being in Hungary.

[WATABENCH]

Um well, the new website?!!?
Just had a look, whats the point? c'mon BRS you can do better than this!

[GrahamK]

Agadir from next year also, Panorama Holidays.

[MerchantVenturer]

Bristol Airport has issued a Statement of Intent as part of the preparation of its proposed Master Plan in response to the government’s White Paper of 2003, ‘The Future of Air Transport’. The airport is sending out 25,000 copies of its proposals to households/businesses affected and a copy is also on its website.

A few points from the plan that I found of interest are.

Of the 4.6 million pax in 2004, 15% used full service carriers, 28 % charter/IT flights and 57 % low cost airlines (no surprise there then).

In 2003 (latest figures for this) 45% of pax came from the former county of Avon with over half this number (about one million) from Bristol itself (equivalent of each city resident taking two flights each year). Other significant markets were Devon (13%) and Somerset and South Wales (each with 10%).

BRS’s projected pax figures for the years ahead are slightly greater than the government’s for the airport. BRS’s are 6.7 million by 2010, 8.1 million by 2015 and 12.5 million by 2030.

The management believes the existing runway’s capacity can cope with up to 9 million annual pax, albeit 30 a/c stands will be needed for this, necessitating an enlarged apron and also a taxiway adjustment at the eastern end to permit better access to the stands.

The current terminal could cope with up to 9 million pax but only if it is increased in size by around 60%, a move that would probably require planning permission and an alteration to the area’s Local Plan. The airport hopes to commence work on a terminal extension in 2007, with the first phase being completed around 2009, and on an on-site hotel sometime next year.

Airports only have to make detailed master plans for the period up to 2015. Beyond that BRS acknowledges that there is ‘considerable uncertainty’ as to what proposals might be necessary to take the airport forward in line with the projections.

Elsewhere it talks about a second terminal and an extended runway, both of which might be needed to take pax numbers beyond the 2015 projected figure. However, I get the impression the airport is lukewarm towards the idea of a longer runway

I wonder how accurate these forecasts will be. I have copies of the airport's ten year plan issued in 1993 when it predicted two million pax by 2003. No-one then could have foreseen the rise of low cost airlines and the predicted two million turned out to be 3.8 million.

[Irish Steve]

Pure speculation, nothing other than gut feel to base this on, but here goes.

At present, CO operate 757 to DUB-SNN from EWR in the winter, but in the summer, they manage to find enough people to make it worth while operating 767-400's to both airports

The Shannon stop's days are limited, for all sorts of reasons. As and when it does finish, I for one would not be at all surprised to see something like an EWR-BRS-SNN-EWR flight that might even be a 767. That way, there's capacity for freight out of BRS, as it's only a short hop to SNN, and the limited SNN winter market is covered, and they can operate an EWR-DUB-EWR all year round with a 767-400 in summer, and maybe a 200 in the winter, which means they can carry freight all year round, the 757 is almost always 80% full of bags in the winter, so very limited cargo capacity.

As I said, only pure speculation without any real truth to back it up with, other than long term observation of patterns and routes.

I used to live in the west country, so know BRS well (be advised there is cloud below the airfield level), and I now live near DUB.

[WATABENCH]

I think Irish Steve is trying to bring up the tech stop question again, only in a very sly way ha ha,
Seriously though I can see where you're coming from, there have been rumours of CO operating a 767 on the BRS route, but I would think they'll be checking the market very carefully to see if the demand would still be there for a 767 with a stop, the Bristolians are very fickle people and would probably prefer to drive to LHR than make a 30 min stop in SNN, why? I don't know.
I think this is why FCA are takeing their time about the SFB flight as well, it's probably quite a dodgy call from a marketing point of view

[WATABENCH]

Speaking to an EZY crew member earlier who said the new routes she'd heard mentioned for no 8 were IBZ/ATH/WAW, Good summer route IBZ not to sure if they could sustain it during winter though

[terrier21]

Some rumours atlast.

The above routes would make perfect sense with the IBZ being replaced in the winter by the NCE and PMI which could then operate daily.

I heard number 9 is set for a june arrival.