Emirates 'eyeing' BFS
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Cyrano
A full A332/B773 wouldn't have a performance problem off 10/28 in DUB going to DXB as it is similar in length to BHX and GLA. BFS could be 'tagged' onto a DUB service because EK operate like that already. eg DXB-NBO-EBB/DAR-NBO-DXB & DXB-LOS-ACC-DXB.
BA have serious problems trying to fill a 763 & 744 0r 2 X 777 daily out of London to Dubai whereas Emirates fills 7 A332/A340's and B772's/B773's on it's London routes every day and is desperate for more slots that aren't available hence why it is developing routes to the regions.
Traditionally a fair few of the LHR/LGW bound pax. from DXB were transits for the transatlantic connections but even with the intro. of the DXB-JFK-DXB non-stop services, the London flights are still full with EK. I don't know the timings for the transatlantic services from the regions so I couldn't say if the EK services to MAN,BHX and GLA connect with the t/a departures from those airports.
I heard the figure was 75% of pax arriving at DXB were transits and that the Emirates Group plus UAE Tourism depts. are vigourously trying to increase the no. of pax staying in DXB,on business and holiday, with figures in the long term similar to some Mediterranean destinations.
2nd daily BHX starts early next year- confirmed.
3rd daily MAN on hold due to lack of aircraft + 'spare' equipment commited to other new routes so from June(?) capacity is increased from 2xA332 to 2xB772/3.
The 'Cheap' deals are probably to do with the start of Ramadan Kareem.
A full A332/B773 wouldn't have a performance problem off 10/28 in DUB going to DXB as it is similar in length to BHX and GLA. BFS could be 'tagged' onto a DUB service because EK operate like that already. eg DXB-NBO-EBB/DAR-NBO-DXB & DXB-LOS-ACC-DXB.
BA have serious problems trying to fill a 763 & 744 0r 2 X 777 daily out of London to Dubai whereas Emirates fills 7 A332/A340's and B772's/B773's on it's London routes every day and is desperate for more slots that aren't available hence why it is developing routes to the regions.
Traditionally a fair few of the LHR/LGW bound pax. from DXB were transits for the transatlantic connections but even with the intro. of the DXB-JFK-DXB non-stop services, the London flights are still full with EK. I don't know the timings for the transatlantic services from the regions so I couldn't say if the EK services to MAN,BHX and GLA connect with the t/a departures from those airports.
I heard the figure was 75% of pax arriving at DXB were transits and that the Emirates Group plus UAE Tourism depts. are vigourously trying to increase the no. of pax staying in DXB,on business and holiday, with figures in the long term similar to some Mediterranean destinations.
2nd daily BHX starts early next year- confirmed.
3rd daily MAN on hold due to lack of aircraft + 'spare' equipment commited to other new routes so from June(?) capacity is increased from 2xA332 to 2xB772/3.
The 'Cheap' deals are probably to do with the start of Ramadan Kareem.
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<<BA have serious problems trying to fill a 763 & 744 0r 2 X 777 daily out of London to Dubai>>
Righty-ho then! That'll be why the winter British Airways programme has 2 x B747-400s and a B777-200 going every day. Keep taking the tablets!
Righty-ho then! That'll be why the winter British Airways programme has 2 x B747-400s and a B777-200 going every day. Keep taking the tablets!
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Bang Or West
They probably need extra capacity for their 'Cheap Deals' that Joe Curry spotted for the UK Winter Holidays 'Bonanza and Yes BA did have problems with over capacity on the DXB- LHR route because that service was my 'back up' plan home in case my desired EK service to MAN was full and I'd missed the 'Lufty' service to FRA.
More often than not I'd turn up at the EK Staff Check-in counter and not get on the EK service because it was full but never had a problem getting on a 50% full BA 763 or 772 and as for a 744? Well that was positively a 'Marie Celeste'!! It was harder to go LHR-MAN once I'd arrived at 'Deathrow'.
So I have experienced BA's load factors on the DXB-LHR route about twice a month since March at first hand. Maybe it will change due to the time of year blended with BA trying to flood the route with over capacity to counter EK's dominance on the service. I mean it isn't really like BA to do something like that,now is it? Especially when the competition becomes dominant on a 'bread and butter' BA route like this.
Now what were these tablets you were trying to recommend?
Aeulad...sorry...Mike.
The morning DXB-MAN is going 772/3 from early June, while the afternoon DXB-MAN is staying on the A332 UNTIL the end of the Summer programme. After that they will both be 772/3. And yes, BHX is going to revert to A332's albeit TWICE daily.
My source? I work for Emirates.
Next question?
They probably need extra capacity for their 'Cheap Deals' that Joe Curry spotted for the UK Winter Holidays 'Bonanza and Yes BA did have problems with over capacity on the DXB- LHR route because that service was my 'back up' plan home in case my desired EK service to MAN was full and I'd missed the 'Lufty' service to FRA.
More often than not I'd turn up at the EK Staff Check-in counter and not get on the EK service because it was full but never had a problem getting on a 50% full BA 763 or 772 and as for a 744? Well that was positively a 'Marie Celeste'!! It was harder to go LHR-MAN once I'd arrived at 'Deathrow'.
So I have experienced BA's load factors on the DXB-LHR route about twice a month since March at first hand. Maybe it will change due to the time of year blended with BA trying to flood the route with over capacity to counter EK's dominance on the service. I mean it isn't really like BA to do something like that,now is it? Especially when the competition becomes dominant on a 'bread and butter' BA route like this.
Now what were these tablets you were trying to recommend?
Aeulad...sorry...Mike.
The morning DXB-MAN is going 772/3 from early June, while the afternoon DXB-MAN is staying on the A332 UNTIL the end of the Summer programme. After that they will both be 772/3. And yes, BHX is going to revert to A332's albeit TWICE daily.
My source? I work for Emirates.
Next question?
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Emirates tend to 'up capacity' at the time of UK public holidays to their UK destinations.
EK replaced the daily BHX A332 with a B772 due to increased capacity requirement before they could justify a 2nd daily service. So this will revert to an A332 route served twice daily.
GLA's B772 was probably a 'sub' due to a tech A332 if it was a one-off appearance for the week. If it was a 772 daily for the week then it could be due to a local holiday (ie Half Term hols) but GLA A332 loads are about 60-70% full so it may not justify a 772 on a regular basis as yet. As for a 773 next year? I haven't heard that one.
New EK routes for next year... Seychelles is definite from Jan., also Beijing and Cape Town strongly fancied as are Brussels, Hamburg, Prague, Madrid. EK's Vienna route came ,quite literally, out of the blue with a couple of months notice- things happen that quickly. A 2nd daily New York and an L.A. service are doing the rounds but we just don't have the available aircraft yet.
EK start taking delivery of the first of 26(?) B773ER's in March at the rate of 1 a/c per month which will free up the A345's for expansion into North and South America. EK also have about 15(?) A346's arriving from the mid-end of 2005 with the first of at least 25 A380's from the end of 2006/start of 2007 and I lose track of the size of the 'options list'.
I also heard from a source 'further up the food chain' that EK are searching for some more A343's and possibly 'surplus' pre-delivery A346 slots at Toulouse due to the commercial success of the A343 & sudden demand for increased capacity.
Some new equipment will probably replace the A310's early A332's and B777's & EK keep an eye on the 7E7 development.
EK replaced the daily BHX A332 with a B772 due to increased capacity requirement before they could justify a 2nd daily service. So this will revert to an A332 route served twice daily.
GLA's B772 was probably a 'sub' due to a tech A332 if it was a one-off appearance for the week. If it was a 772 daily for the week then it could be due to a local holiday (ie Half Term hols) but GLA A332 loads are about 60-70% full so it may not justify a 772 on a regular basis as yet. As for a 773 next year? I haven't heard that one.
New EK routes for next year... Seychelles is definite from Jan., also Beijing and Cape Town strongly fancied as are Brussels, Hamburg, Prague, Madrid. EK's Vienna route came ,quite literally, out of the blue with a couple of months notice- things happen that quickly. A 2nd daily New York and an L.A. service are doing the rounds but we just don't have the available aircraft yet.
EK start taking delivery of the first of 26(?) B773ER's in March at the rate of 1 a/c per month which will free up the A345's for expansion into North and South America. EK also have about 15(?) A346's arriving from the mid-end of 2005 with the first of at least 25 A380's from the end of 2006/start of 2007 and I lose track of the size of the 'options list'.
I also heard from a source 'further up the food chain' that EK are searching for some more A343's and possibly 'surplus' pre-delivery A346 slots at Toulouse due to the commercial success of the A343 & sudden demand for increased capacity.
Some new equipment will probably replace the A310's early A332's and B777's & EK keep an eye on the 7E7 development.
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No. Would you care to enlighten the audience, James?
Knowing what the UK media is like for 'inaccurasies', I fear this may be the 2nd BHX service but I may be wrong. CWL, EDI, DUB and STN have all been surveyed.
In fact I flew 'J' Class from MAN last week and 6 'J' Class plus 20 odd 'Y' Class Pax were connecting from an EI flight originating in DUB, and 8 'J's and 18 'Y's joined from WW and BA BFS/BHD flights. I know that a lot of the freight on the afternoon MAN-DXB service originates from DUB.
If you hear anything please post it here as quite often we, in the sand pit, are the last to know.
Knowing what the UK media is like for 'inaccurasies', I fear this may be the 2nd BHX service but I may be wrong. CWL, EDI, DUB and STN have all been surveyed.
In fact I flew 'J' Class from MAN last week and 6 'J' Class plus 20 odd 'Y' Class Pax were connecting from an EI flight originating in DUB, and 8 'J's and 18 'Y's joined from WW and BA BFS/BHD flights. I know that a lot of the freight on the afternoon MAN-DXB service originates from DUB.
If you hear anything please post it here as quite often we, in the sand pit, are the last to know.
Last edited by Pontious; 27th Oct 2004 at 01:52.
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sorry about that Pontious, the article in question is at:
http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/art...1290466,00.html
PONTIOUS
The link above doesn\'t seem to work. However, if you go back to the main index of this forum page, to page 4 "new routes for Newcastle" page 4 again, the link on John Waltons 9th Oct entry still works.......good luck...sorry it\'s so complicated
http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/art...1290466,00.html
PONTIOUS
The link above doesn\'t seem to work. However, if you go back to the main index of this forum page, to page 4 "new routes for Newcastle" page 4 again, the link on John Waltons 9th Oct entry still works.......good luck...sorry it\'s so complicated
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As a public service 
, this is the link that Jamesair refers to above (to save everyone having to go through this page 4-page 4 routine).
The article is not exactly a ringing confirmation of Emirates plans for a new UK destination, incidentally, just an unattributed "may include a new destination."
C.
, this is the link that Jamesair refers to above (to save everyone having to go through this page 4-page 4 routine). The article is not exactly a ringing confirmation of Emirates plans for a new UK destination, incidentally, just an unattributed "may include a new destination."
C.
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Thanks Guys.
I'll keep my ears to the ground and let you know if I hear anything. EK tend to fly to airports situated near large Asian communities because they form the bulk of our trade.
I would have guessed at LBA or EMA but I think they are probably well served by MAN and BHX respectively. The same can be said for GLA's proximity to EDI.
STN or LTN for extra slots into London? (LTN more because of the proximity to M1/M25 plus a large catchment area of Asian families and businesses in the Luton and Watford areas).
CWL because EK's closest service to the South West UK is BHX or LHR?
NCL because the closest service to the North East of England is currently either MAN or GLA?
DUB or BFS because EK don't yet operate to Ireland?
And we've come on a full tour of the UK and Ireland. It's exciting times ahead so if you hear anything please post it here.
Also does anybody know if Royal Jordanian still operate a stop in SNN en-route Amman to the U.S.? Is it for fuel only or do they pick up/drop off some pax/freight? It used to be to JFK(?) or DTW(?) with an A310-300.
Cheers.
I'll keep my ears to the ground and let you know if I hear anything. EK tend to fly to airports situated near large Asian communities because they form the bulk of our trade.
I would have guessed at LBA or EMA but I think they are probably well served by MAN and BHX respectively. The same can be said for GLA's proximity to EDI.
STN or LTN for extra slots into London? (LTN more because of the proximity to M1/M25 plus a large catchment area of Asian families and businesses in the Luton and Watford areas).
CWL because EK's closest service to the South West UK is BHX or LHR?
NCL because the closest service to the North East of England is currently either MAN or GLA?
DUB or BFS because EK don't yet operate to Ireland?
And we've come on a full tour of the UK and Ireland. It's exciting times ahead so if you hear anything please post it here.
Also does anybody know if Royal Jordanian still operate a stop in SNN en-route Amman to the U.S.? Is it for fuel only or do they pick up/drop off some pax/freight? It used to be to JFK(?) or DTW(?) with an A310-300.
Cheers.
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The runway at Dublin is very tight for a non-stop DUB-DXB. WIth full freight and pax it would be marginal on the larger equip that Emirates planned for the route. It is a non-runner for that reason. Similar to issues SA have with freighters ex DUB which hit CPH en route.
RE looked at 757-200 service from DUB-DXB but that was a flight of fantasy shot down by Irish Govt. and the new Dublin Airport Authority.
RE looked at 757-200 service from DUB-DXB but that was a flight of fantasy shot down by Irish Govt. and the new Dublin Airport Authority.
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EI flies A332s from DUB to LAX (I've even seen t/a departures from Rwy 16) and DL has flown 777s from DUB to ATL, n/s, so the runway length at DUB would not be a factor working against DUB; DXB really isn't such a long route.
It was disappointing that EK failed to add DUB again, but there are other airlines. There is now a recognition in govt circles that Ireland needs a direct route to Asia and hopefully, this can give rise to a package of incentives which can be offered to carriers such as SQ, TG, MH, CX etc - possibly EK as well. If the DUB airport authority could work with bodies involved in trade and tourism, I'm sure a package of suitable incentives could be put together.
It was disappointing that EK failed to add DUB again, but there are other airlines. There is now a recognition in govt circles that Ireland needs a direct route to Asia and hopefully, this can give rise to a package of incentives which can be offered to carriers such as SQ, TG, MH, CX etc - possibly EK as well. If the DUB airport authority could work with bodies involved in trade and tourism, I'm sure a package of suitable incentives could be put together.
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Sorry, but DUB's got a whacking great runway (10/28), which is far less limiting tham BHX!!!! Having flown in and out of DUB regularly in my last life - and now BHX flying for Emirates I can assure you that DUB is NOT limiting for a non-stop to Dubai!! The 330's got BIG BALLS
The 330's got BIG BALLS
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Sorry Neidin
White Knight and Aeroskid are spot on. 10/28 definately is not a limiting runway for an A332. It is a vastly overpowered aeroplane and Dublin isn't exactly a 'Hot'n'High' airfield. 16/34 may pose a problem however.
If an A332 had a load putting it right on MZFW add to that about 50T of fuel (typical for a 7h-7h.30 sector), the aeroplane is still around 20T short of it's MTOW. Dubai is closer than you think.
As for a 757, it could probably make it DUB-DXB-DUB depending on pax.config/loads/routing/headwinds etc. The A332 is just a wide bodied 757 performance wise. I don't know why the Irish Govt. and D.A.A. disapproved.
SA's 747F's probably stop in CPH for commercial reasons just as CX and KA 747F's stop in BRU,FRA etc en-route to DXB.It's probably to pick up more freight as against performance cosiderations ex-DUB.
White Knight
Which one gives you the biggest goosebumps? BHX? or 05 at GLA?
White Knight and Aeroskid are spot on. 10/28 definately is not a limiting runway for an A332. It is a vastly overpowered aeroplane and Dublin isn't exactly a 'Hot'n'High' airfield. 16/34 may pose a problem however.
If an A332 had a load putting it right on MZFW add to that about 50T of fuel (typical for a 7h-7h.30 sector), the aeroplane is still around 20T short of it's MTOW. Dubai is closer than you think.
As for a 757, it could probably make it DUB-DXB-DUB depending on pax.config/loads/routing/headwinds etc. The A332 is just a wide bodied 757 performance wise. I don't know why the Irish Govt. and D.A.A. disapproved.
SA's 747F's probably stop in CPH for commercial reasons just as CX and KA 747F's stop in BRU,FRA etc en-route to DXB.It's probably to pick up more freight as against performance cosiderations ex-DUB.
White Knight
Which one gives you the biggest goosebumps? BHX? or 05 at GLA?