EGCC Development - what is required?
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EGCC Development - what is required?
Okay, Manchester now looks as if it has got a very good potential start to Summer 2005, with Jet2 and GB Airways announcing that they will base a number of aircraft (7 between them), and rumours of other long haul carriers considering starting services.
Great for the airport, and good for the travelling public, however I think that we all accept that work needs to be done by the airport to improve its general efficiency.
So let's start by trying to give MAplc some guidance. What do you as pilots, ground crew, controllers etc think needs to be done, and by when!!
Hopefully we can keep this thread as a constructive one, without the usual heaping of abuse: calling of names like 'Fat Cats', etc.
Do you think that you could run a better and more efficient airport, and yet keep costs within reason? I'm no accountant, however I think the time has come when the airport has to spend money to improve things its infrastructure, such as taxi-ways, additional stands )they can be remote of proper coaching arrangements are laid on) and increased baggage belt facilities in the arrivals halls.
So, here is your opportunity to let the Airport hear your constructive views. Let's be hearing you?
Great for the airport, and good for the travelling public, however I think that we all accept that work needs to be done by the airport to improve its general efficiency.
So let's start by trying to give MAplc some guidance. What do you as pilots, ground crew, controllers etc think needs to be done, and by when!!
Hopefully we can keep this thread as a constructive one, without the usual heaping of abuse: calling of names like 'Fat Cats', etc.
Do you think that you could run a better and more efficient airport, and yet keep costs within reason? I'm no accountant, however I think the time has come when the airport has to spend money to improve things its infrastructure, such as taxi-ways, additional stands )they can be remote of proper coaching arrangements are laid on) and increased baggage belt facilities in the arrivals halls.
So, here is your opportunity to let the Airport hear your constructive views. Let's be hearing you?
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Not a criticism of the airport company in any way but I think more aircraft parking stands and some lovely new taxiways are absolute priorities at the moment.
And please, please - no more cul de sacs!
It's all very well us pushing more aluminum than ever before, with almost no holds even during peak periods, but if there's nowhere for the buggers to go once they're on the ground then ultimately, it's pointless - as the crews of the oft-held-for-ages AA and PIA flights will probably tell you, through gritted and tired teeth.
I've heard all sorts of rumours during my time here regarding this, some suggest T2 will be extended north-wards whilst others have mentioned the possible construction of a remote satellite terminal over on the T2 remote stands.
I wonder if anyone knows anything rather more firmly factual?
And please, please - no more cul de sacs!
It's all very well us pushing more aluminum than ever before, with almost no holds even during peak periods, but if there's nowhere for the buggers to go once they're on the ground then ultimately, it's pointless - as the crews of the oft-held-for-ages AA and PIA flights will probably tell you, through gritted and tired teeth.
I've heard all sorts of rumours during my time here regarding this, some suggest T2 will be extended north-wards whilst others have mentioned the possible construction of a remote satellite terminal over on the T2 remote stands.
I wonder if anyone knows anything rather more firmly factual?
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niteflite01
Is the problem with AA due to their aircraft arriving ahead of schedule or more because of delays on the stands being vacated by BAs early morning wave?
Likewise, as they seem to have a bad timekeeping record, do PIA suffer because their stands would have been availabel if they had arrived on time, but have subsequently been taken?
In neither case am I critising the airlines, just asking a question.
What obviously needs doing is a fix for next summer - as one tower member has asked in another forum, where are they going to park the buggers.
Is the problem with AA due to their aircraft arriving ahead of schedule or more because of delays on the stands being vacated by BAs early morning wave?
Likewise, as they seem to have a bad timekeeping record, do PIA suffer because their stands would have been availabel if they had arrived on time, but have subsequently been taken?
In neither case am I critising the airlines, just asking a question.
What obviously needs doing is a fix for next summer - as one tower member has asked in another forum, where are they going to park the buggers.
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There are other forums?
Anyway, I'm not sure to be honest with you whether the problem with those two flights in particular is down to aircraft operating outside their scheduled hours or not. I did just pluck those two out of the fresh bit in the back of my mind as they've had some problems of the kind I described, in the last few weeks.
It's not just the parking for the blighter's though that's the problem. The A6 area (abeam the fire station-ish) gets mightily congested at peak times with in's and out's. All it takes normally is for apron control to shove something big on a stand adjacent to taxiways Q or P and our usual life saving cheats in the area are gone.
I'm aware that, with the withdrawal of the Met Office from the airport, the space taken up by their little shack is supposedly to be transformed into an apron area. It's a shame another taxiway couldn't have been shoved in too.
Anyway, I'm not sure to be honest with you whether the problem with those two flights in particular is down to aircraft operating outside their scheduled hours or not. I did just pluck those two out of the fresh bit in the back of my mind as they've had some problems of the kind I described, in the last few weeks.
It's not just the parking for the blighter's though that's the problem. The A6 area (abeam the fire station-ish) gets mightily congested at peak times with in's and out's. All it takes normally is for apron control to shove something big on a stand adjacent to taxiways Q or P and our usual life saving cheats in the area are gone.
I'm aware that, with the withdrawal of the Met Office from the airport, the space taken up by their little shack is supposedly to be transformed into an apron area. It's a shame another taxiway couldn't have been shoved in too.
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A brief outline from the Development Strategy to 2015:
"The preferred areas for apron extension will be to the west of Terminal 2 (including land currently used for car parking); to the east of Terminal 3 (requiring relocation of existing uses), in the vicinity of the current maintenance village and on land at Cloughbank Farm presently utilised as the Aviation Viewing Park.
T1: original capacity 2.5 million passengers, currently 11 million passengers. Planned: more check-in desks and improve/extend arrivals area. Possible redevelopment of the multi-storey car park
T2: original capacity of 6 million passengers – it’s now been raised to 7.3 million passengers. Planned extend pier and build a remote pier. Total capacity expected to be 18 million passengers
T3: current capacity 4.7 million passengers. Planned: expansion to the east of the terminal (losing a car park) but nothing set in concrete yet. Planned total capacity is expected to be 8.5 million passengers"
"The preferred areas for apron extension will be to the west of Terminal 2 (including land currently used for car parking); to the east of Terminal 3 (requiring relocation of existing uses), in the vicinity of the current maintenance village and on land at Cloughbank Farm presently utilised as the Aviation Viewing Park.
T1: original capacity 2.5 million passengers, currently 11 million passengers. Planned: more check-in desks and improve/extend arrivals area. Possible redevelopment of the multi-storey car park
T2: original capacity of 6 million passengers – it’s now been raised to 7.3 million passengers. Planned extend pier and build a remote pier. Total capacity expected to be 18 million passengers
T3: current capacity 4.7 million passengers. Planned: expansion to the east of the terminal (losing a car park) but nothing set in concrete yet. Planned total capacity is expected to be 8.5 million passengers"
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First of all , well done Manchester for getting yet more services and I think it's fair to say the Airport has been caught out by the leap in growth over the past 12 months as they thought some of the traffic proposing to come in was speculative ,only , it turned out that is wasn't ! But the traffic is here and is expected to stay and expand. More services are on the cards with the hot rumours being Air China to Beijing ,China Airlines (pax) TPE-BKK-MAN, a 2nd daily COA Newark service and that Virgin will increase their presence at MAN with upto 4 a/c serving various longhaul destinations.
So, a new taxiway to serve Pier C T1 and all of T2 is a must in order to stop the the daily bottlenecks. More stands please and asap , I hear that last Sunday the AAL BOS arrived and had to wait 1h15m for his stand ! I was somewhat surprised at the JET2 announcement as only the other week ATC were alledgedly against any major expansion for S05 unless they received assurances that the airfield infrastructure would be upgraded to cope.
Longterm , the Airport does have plans to extend T2 and T3 , Males Garage and the Catering unit are apparently to go and the T3 terminal and stands will expand parrallel with 24R . T2 will see an extension to western end. But as for next summer......here's to a busy one
brgds
TCM
So, a new taxiway to serve Pier C T1 and all of T2 is a must in order to stop the the daily bottlenecks. More stands please and asap , I hear that last Sunday the AAL BOS arrived and had to wait 1h15m for his stand ! I was somewhat surprised at the JET2 announcement as only the other week ATC were alledgedly against any major expansion for S05 unless they received assurances that the airfield infrastructure would be upgraded to cope.
Longterm , the Airport does have plans to extend T2 and T3 , Males Garage and the Catering unit are apparently to go and the T3 terminal and stands will expand parrallel with 24R . T2 will see an extension to western end. But as for next summer......here's to a busy one
brgds
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Regarding the Met office site and new taxiway. If this was to happen the Fire station would have to be demolished and stand 60 plus adjacent stands closed.
I think much bolder measures are required to solve the bottle neck.
1. demolish part of the cargo sheds (they dont need to be next to the airport)
2, build a new taxiway around the rear of the hangers, joining up around link B. Landing traffic for terminal 2 could simply continue the roll and exit along the new taxiway, completely avoiding the fire station area. For 06 departures the flow simply goes into reverse
I think much bolder measures are required to solve the bottle neck.
1. demolish part of the cargo sheds (they dont need to be next to the airport)
2, build a new taxiway around the rear of the hangers, joining up around link B. Landing traffic for terminal 2 could simply continue the roll and exit along the new taxiway, completely avoiding the fire station area. For 06 departures the flow simply goes into reverse
It would be nice for the airport to address some of the passenger terminal defficiencies.
The abysmal serviceability of walkways, escalators & lifts right through the airport.
The premier parking fiasco, when often there is just one bus serving three terminals. People with heavy bags, babies & buggies are "dumped" outside T2 arrivals for their departure, inadequate directions will maybe lead them to two tatty dirty lifts & with luck - one may be working.
Check in queue management in T1, but in particularly T2 is extremely poor. Often impossible to get past from one check in area to another. Why isn't something done? Many children & elderly people are jostled & shoved around by this mayhem at week-ends. Terminal managers should ensure check in queues are managed properly & without blocking the entire terminal.
Always thought Manchester were good at staying ahead of the game, but these days, can't help feeling they have taken their eye off the ball ( maybe too many fingers at other airports ??)........
Have to agree with previous posts, how can you have half the entire apron area of the airport (T2) serviced by a single taxiway for both in and out??
Rant over..........for now.
The abysmal serviceability of walkways, escalators & lifts right through the airport.
The premier parking fiasco, when often there is just one bus serving three terminals. People with heavy bags, babies & buggies are "dumped" outside T2 arrivals for their departure, inadequate directions will maybe lead them to two tatty dirty lifts & with luck - one may be working.
Check in queue management in T1, but in particularly T2 is extremely poor. Often impossible to get past from one check in area to another. Why isn't something done? Many children & elderly people are jostled & shoved around by this mayhem at week-ends. Terminal managers should ensure check in queues are managed properly & without blocking the entire terminal.
Always thought Manchester were good at staying ahead of the game, but these days, can't help feeling they have taken their eye off the ball ( maybe too many fingers at other airports ??)........
Have to agree with previous posts, how can you have half the entire apron area of the airport (T2) serviced by a single taxiway for both in and out??
Rant over..........for now.
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the building is already underway ... they are building a new cargo center as we speak the cargo sheads will be knoked down to make way for new stands with a look at building a terminal there as well to put the low cost airlines.there
there are 4 new 747 stands going to be built where the ringway training center is next to stand 71 and from march next year the extension of T2 begines the are looking at parking aircraft upto and including A320 where area 7 staff carpark is to creat extra stands at the back of T2.
rampman
there are 4 new 747 stands going to be built where the ringway training center is next to stand 71 and from march next year the extension of T2 begines the are looking at parking aircraft upto and including A320 where area 7 staff carpark is to creat extra stands at the back of T2.
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Scottie Dog
if you have time go over to the cargo center you will see the building work for yourself its a huge constrution site at the moment as you enter the W.F.C you will see all the building work on your right .
i belive the building work to be done by late spring 2005
as for the new taxiway and stands they will be started as soon as they have shuffled everyone around and knoked down the exsiting frieght sheds
rampman
if you have time go over to the cargo center you will see the building work for yourself its a huge constrution site at the moment as you enter the W.F.C you will see all the building work on your right .
i belive the building work to be done by late spring 2005
as for the new taxiway and stands they will be started as soon as they have shuffled everyone around and knoked down the exsiting frieght sheds
rampman
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rampman
I must wear different glasses from you. The only work that I see at the WFC is a single building behind the DHL property on the right!
Should I go back to the opticans?
Scottie Dog
Should I go back to the opticans?
Scottie Dog
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Hey niteflite01
Do you reckoned that I need new glasses, or can you only see one new building on the far side of the WFC - rather than the new Cargo Centre that rampman refered to......
That is when you are in the lofty office!!
That is when you are in the lofty office!!
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I have to confess that I haven't noticed any new construction work around and about the cargo sheds apart from that one site Scottie, and the never ending expansion of Bewley's Hotel over the other side too of course. That place is massive now
I have a few colleagues in Area 7 car park and they're aware that they're going to have to shift sometime soon, to enable the proposed new stands for T2 to be constructed as rampman has said
I have a few colleagues in Area 7 car park and they're aware that they're going to have to shift sometime soon, to enable the proposed new stands for T2 to be constructed as rampman has said
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If they are as mentioned going to Demolish the Servisair/Menzies Cargo/British Airways cargo shed and move them behind the exsisting Menlo/DHL buildings then as it stands they are currently building one new building that is approx 1/5th the size of the exsisting complex occupied by the actual handling agents.
The other thing to ask is why the company that has ploughed many thousand of pounds into opening a new cafeteria did this when the repositioning of the handling sheds would effect business, surely Manchester Airports office leasing department would of had to reveal the plans to knock down the handling shed in favour of re-locating, also Servisair ploughed a serious amount of money into transforming there reception area, why do this if they are going to move to new-build offices???.
More seriously **If** the handling agents we to move then this would also create the following problem, once cargo has been accepted into the freight sheds for export it has to undergo customs entry (If flying outside the E.U.) and vigerous security checks before it can leave the country. Once it has been accepted by customs and passed its security checks it is then pulled by tow trucks on Aircraft pallets onto the apron. If they were to move to the new building that is being errected then these movements would have to take place down a 300 yard stretch of public road(which is neede to gain access to FLS/Monarch,Alpha catering and more impotant the Romper Pubetc etc so no way they can close it), something that customs and aviation security regulations would simply not allow.
One last thing, having been in and around the cargo centre on a virtual daily basis now for 18 years this is not the first time that this rumour has come to light.
As far as i am aware there simply must be direct access to the apron from the back of the handling agents sheds, going into the new-build offices would mean that the entire cargo centre would need to be demolished and moved behind the new buildings,if this were to happen then someone might want to get in touch with the highways agency and advise them the A538 is going to have to be re-routed, not even mentioning the Junction 6 onto the M56.
Something to chew on.
The other thing to ask is why the company that has ploughed many thousand of pounds into opening a new cafeteria did this when the repositioning of the handling sheds would effect business, surely Manchester Airports office leasing department would of had to reveal the plans to knock down the handling shed in favour of re-locating, also Servisair ploughed a serious amount of money into transforming there reception area, why do this if they are going to move to new-build offices???.
More seriously **If** the handling agents we to move then this would also create the following problem, once cargo has been accepted into the freight sheds for export it has to undergo customs entry (If flying outside the E.U.) and vigerous security checks before it can leave the country. Once it has been accepted by customs and passed its security checks it is then pulled by tow trucks on Aircraft pallets onto the apron. If they were to move to the new building that is being errected then these movements would have to take place down a 300 yard stretch of public road(which is neede to gain access to FLS/Monarch,Alpha catering and more impotant the Romper Pubetc etc so no way they can close it), something that customs and aviation security regulations would simply not allow.
One last thing, having been in and around the cargo centre on a virtual daily basis now for 18 years this is not the first time that this rumour has come to light.
As far as i am aware there simply must be direct access to the apron from the back of the handling agents sheds, going into the new-build offices would mean that the entire cargo centre would need to be demolished and moved behind the new buildings,if this were to happen then someone might want to get in touch with the highways agency and advise them the A538 is going to have to be re-routed, not even mentioning the Junction 6 onto the M56.
Something to chew on.
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"Slightly" off topic...
What about the "New" check in desks in T2? Started in Summer, then what? abandoned?
Look just where they are....next to the car park [pay] machines, with a "decorative" tree alongside, giving a "passageway" 5 feet max wide, within 10 metres of an exit
Have HSE seen [and approved] these plans?
I park in staff 7 and have heard precisely nowt, but I retire next year
watp,iktch
What about the "New" check in desks in T2? Started in Summer, then what? abandoned?
Look just where they are....next to the car park [pay] machines, with a "decorative" tree alongside, giving a "passageway" 5 feet max wide, within 10 metres of an exit
Have HSE seen [and approved] these plans?
I park in staff 7 and have heard precisely nowt, but I retire next year
watp,iktch
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The building being erected next to DHL is purely for Alpha flight catering to replace the old buildings and Males garage next to terminal 3.Once Alpha have moved then I believe that terminal 3 will be extended. regards clive.