LEEDS
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Oh god hes back.....
Maybe they dont want to do the TFS route just yet? A wild guess?
Why would they get clapped out 757s from MyTravel of which they are keeping them anyway for a while longer anyway?
Come on Tommy.
Maybe they dont want to do the TFS route just yet? A wild guess?
Why would they get clapped out 757s from MyTravel of which they are keeping them anyway for a while longer anyway?
Come on Tommy.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Leeds
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Mouser - I think people were cheesed off about the Gatwick thing and the fact that by bringing MAN's route development activity forward in response to a potential move by EZY, Jet2's LBA plans seem to be on hold. But generally there are some positives. e.g.
- their move over the hill supports the view that LBA has a definable, sizeable and separate catchment area from MAN and it is not (as BA, the tour operators and MAPLC like to think) an extension of Greater Manchester. This is potentially a powerful tool for the LBA marketing team when targeting airlines at MAN to offer complimentary services out of Leeds e.g. for routes to CPH / FRA / DUS / MUC / EWR.
- the fact that the MAN operation has established links to a number of UK and overseas destinations that aren't served from Leeds, does potentially make it easier for Jet2 to add these to the LBA network in the future. They now (or will) have advertising & ground handling presence in places like Budapest, Pisa, Edinburgh, Gatwick etc which means adding a Leeds (or Belfast) service is that bit easier.
- the huge increase in low-cost, seat-only services in the NW is bound to place more pressure on the mainstream tour operators at MAN and will lead to further reductions in capacity. With the greatest leakage of passengers from the LBA catchment to MAN coming from passengers using charter flights, anything that stimulates a reduction in charter capacity at MAN and expedites the switch from package holidays to tailor-made / independent arrangement should be of long-term benefit.
- it increases Jet2's awareness across the North and makes them a bigger and more credible business than had they just been a niche LBA operator.
682
PS. Tommy - I hear that channex are looking to reconfigure their A300 freighters into Jet2 passenger a/c with a view to lauching services from LBA to TFS., Should start on April-1st next year ready for the Easter rush.
- their move over the hill supports the view that LBA has a definable, sizeable and separate catchment area from MAN and it is not (as BA, the tour operators and MAPLC like to think) an extension of Greater Manchester. This is potentially a powerful tool for the LBA marketing team when targeting airlines at MAN to offer complimentary services out of Leeds e.g. for routes to CPH / FRA / DUS / MUC / EWR.
- the fact that the MAN operation has established links to a number of UK and overseas destinations that aren't served from Leeds, does potentially make it easier for Jet2 to add these to the LBA network in the future. They now (or will) have advertising & ground handling presence in places like Budapest, Pisa, Edinburgh, Gatwick etc which means adding a Leeds (or Belfast) service is that bit easier.
- the huge increase in low-cost, seat-only services in the NW is bound to place more pressure on the mainstream tour operators at MAN and will lead to further reductions in capacity. With the greatest leakage of passengers from the LBA catchment to MAN coming from passengers using charter flights, anything that stimulates a reduction in charter capacity at MAN and expedites the switch from package holidays to tailor-made / independent arrangement should be of long-term benefit.
- it increases Jet2's awareness across the North and makes them a bigger and more credible business than had they just been a niche LBA operator.
682
PS. Tommy - I hear that channex are looking to reconfigure their A300 freighters into Jet2 passenger a/c with a view to lauching services from LBA to TFS., Should start on April-1st next year ready for the Easter rush.
Join Date: Jun 2004
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LCA back for Summer 2005
Just noticed on the LBIA charter page that the Airtours Dep/Arr times for summer have been updated. LCA is now back on the list but no flight details are there. Looks like AEU are basing an aircraft at LBA all week. LCA could operate on Wednesday or Sunday afternoon. There's room for 1 or 2 other things aswell???
Join Date: Jan 2004
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I have just been looking at Bristol charter programme for next summer. It make LBA look a bit sick. Also lots of Greek destinations. I know bmifox has raised the subject in the past, but why not a decent Greek programme from LBA. I cannot believe that Yorkshire folk are so different that they do not want to holiday in the Greek islands. The whole situation is very strange.
Yorkshire folk do want to holiday in Greece and what is more, they also want to fly there from Yorkshire and anyone who says otherwise is talking out of their 
. We've been down this road so many times before boys and girls. We've had a whole thread devoted to it, much to the consternation of some individuals. If the tour operators can't be persuaded, then it's time one of the lo-co's operated a flight-only programme with links to booking accommodation and hire cars etc. I regret I can't see Jet2 doing it in the foreseeable future as they seem to be concentrating on getting Manchester established right now. Fair enough, but the business is there for the taking. Surely to goodness it's only a matter of time.
. We've been down this road so many times before boys and girls. We've had a whole thread devoted to it, much to the consternation of some individuals. If the tour operators can't be persuaded, then it's time one of the lo-co's operated a flight-only programme with links to booking accommodation and hire cars etc. I regret I can't see Jet2 doing it in the foreseeable future as they seem to be concentrating on getting Manchester established right now. Fair enough, but the business is there for the taking. Surely to goodness it's only a matter of time.
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Jet2 at Leeds vs TOMFLY at DSA
Just had a look at the Thomsonfly website, sorry if old hat, but I couldn't help but notice that the destinations on offer at DSA are basically, all but the odd one, the same as Jet2s LBA operation.
Jet2 Leeds...........Thomsonfly Doncaster
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alicante................ Alicante
Faro......................Faro
Ibiza.....................Ibiza
Malaga..................Malaga
Palma....................Palma
Paris??..................Paris
Prague..................Prague
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mercia...................Dublin...........(dig at Ryanair LBA?)
Venice...................Pisa..............(dig at Jet2 MAN / LBA?)
Belfast...................Valencia.......(dig at Jet2 MAN?)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amsterdam
Nice
Barcelona
Without drifting onto that them and us LBA vs DSA, It does apear an interesting move by Thomsonfly at DSA.
I just have a little feeling that LBA is on the verge of a battle brewing in the wind, with possible more destinations on the horrizon. Any thoughts??
Jet2 Leeds...........Thomsonfly Doncaster
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alicante................ Alicante
Faro......................Faro
Ibiza.....................Ibiza
Malaga..................Malaga
Palma....................Palma
Paris??..................Paris
Prague..................Prague
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mercia...................Dublin...........(dig at Ryanair LBA?)
Venice...................Pisa..............(dig at Jet2 MAN / LBA?)
Belfast...................Valencia.......(dig at Jet2 MAN?)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amsterdam
Nice
Barcelona
Without drifting onto that them and us LBA vs DSA, It does apear an interesting move by Thomsonfly at DSA.
I just have a little feeling that LBA is on the verge of a battle brewing in the wind, with possible more destinations on the horrizon. Any thoughts??
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Indeed
I have been making this point for some time now, but the i love Jet2 camp have got blinkers on and think that anything other Jet2 worship is knocking Jet2!!!
For the record i think Jet2 have a great product and have done very well at Leeds and should do well at Manchester, however lets not get carried away. They face much tougher competion at Manchester (all the more so with LPL just down the road) and have had no competion at all at Leeds
Donny will change that and the tui group have marketing budgets that will consume the likes of Flybe and Jet2/baby for breakfast, remember that just 2 years ago no one had ever heard of Jet2 and in 06 it will be Thompson that will dominate the LOcO secene in the North East
The bottom line is that Jet2 had to go to Manchester or Mr Messon would have been very exposed to a chill wind
Cheers
Burt
For the record i think Jet2 have a great product and have done very well at Leeds and should do well at Manchester, however lets not get carried away. They face much tougher competion at Manchester (all the more so with LPL just down the road) and have had no competion at all at Leeds
Donny will change that and the tui group have marketing budgets that will consume the likes of Flybe and Jet2/baby for breakfast, remember that just 2 years ago no one had ever heard of Jet2 and in 06 it will be Thompson that will dominate the LOcO secene in the North East
The bottom line is that Jet2 had to go to Manchester or Mr Messon would have been very exposed to a chill wind
Cheers
Burt
Join Date: Nov 2001
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cant think that LBA is much the same as LPL when it comes to charter traffic. I.e MAN takes the majority of it all.. reagrdless of recent successes by both LBA and LPL the big charter operators will continue to do most of their northern ops ex MAN. it is unfair to compare Bristol to leeds as there is no other city larger till london.. Where as as there is only 30 odd miles separating lpl and man and man and leeds.
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Inkjet - the only blinkers here are from people who continue to be unable to see the big picture. People seem unable to gasp that Yorkshire has a population the same size of Scotland but that unlike the situation north of the border, most of its air traffic leaks out to other regions because of an imbalance between supply and demand. So why such the big fuss that as of next summer there will be two airports offering low-cost services to this 5 million+ population base. Christ, if Leeds pushed its passenger numbers up to 3 million over the next 18 months and Doncaster grew rapidly to 2 million, they'd still be only be meeting about half of the regional demand. There's plenty of room for Jet2 and Tui to happily coexist and grow before the two would be competing with each other and not EMA/MAN/LPL. And I can assure you that the Jet2 move into Manchester had absolutely nothing to do with whatever TUI might or might not be doing at DSA. The plan was always to open a 2nd major base, hence the purchase of more aircraft this summer, and MAN came about as a result of MAPLC approaching PM with an offer, not the other way round. MAPLC are wetting themselves at the prospect of all of the charter traffic they get from Yorks migrating to low-cost services at DSA and LBA. Only one of the parties was feeling a chill wind and this certainly wasn't Meeson running for sanctuary,
loco
loco
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and in 06 it will be Thompson that will dominate the LOcO secene in the North East
Read something about Monarch and Leeds crown service on here this afternoon. Can't find it now ! Never mind, it should get a few tongues wagging.
Be good to see them. They haven't had a substantial LBA presence since 1995 and I'm sure Jet2 would welcome the competition.
Be good to see them. They haven't had a substantial LBA presence since 1995 and I'm sure Jet2 would welcome the competition.
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Mooncrest........
It would be great to have them back, but the same rumour went around last year at about the same time.
Ps. I couldn't help myself.....but the cleaners arn't aware of any new services or developments, neither does anyone else at the airport. So either there are no new services and developments or they have had their mouths taped and their hands tied??? Its a conspiracy eek!
The cash machines are still working, but the foors had more tape to hide the bubbles and cracks.
Ps. I couldn't help myself.....but the cleaners arn't aware of any new services or developments, neither does anyone else at the airport. So either there are no new services and developments or they have had their mouths taped and their hands tied??? Its a conspiracy
eek! The cash machines are still working, but the foors had more tape to hide the bubbles and cracks.
Last edited by Leodis; 13th Dec 2004 at 20:35.
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Leodis
Can't understand why they don't just tile the place, sooner or later someone will sue them!
Going LoCo
Glad to hear that JET2 are happy with the situation lets hope they have more flights from Leeds soon!. They are offering some great deal at present, in yesterdays daily Mail they had a half page add with 70% of all routes, not sure what the 70% was off though as they don't appear to have a price list
Cheers
Burt
Going LoCo
Glad to hear that JET2 are happy with the situation lets hope they have more flights from Leeds soon!. They are offering some great deal at present, in yesterdays daily Mail they had a half page add with 70% of all routes, not sure what the 70% was off though as they don't appear to have a price list
Cheers
Burt
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GoingLoco - I think the mental block that limits sensible debate on the subject is that many people accept the current level of passengers at LBA/HUY as being a true reflection of demand in the region. It isn't, but because people don't see that, any talk about large scale growth doesn't get recognised as being a necessary adjustment to bring the region up to where it should be in comparison to other parts of the country.
With the CAA recently publishing its data for September, I dropped the csv file into Excel and produced the following simple analysis. It shows the number of international passengers from the airports around some of the main provincial conurbations.
North West (MAN, LPL) 2,200,000
Midlands (BHX, EMA, CVT) 1,225,000
Ctrl Scotland (EDI, GLA, PIK) 810,000
North East (NCL, MME) 420,000
Yorks (LBA,HUY) 250,000
Personally, I don't think there needs to be much more said. Its maybe worth pointing out that the growth at DSA next year will be adding about 75,000 passengers a month to the Yorkshire total, whilst LBA should be up by about 30,000. Net of reduced IT capacity at LBA and HUY, Yorkshire might therefore sneak up 350,000. A drop in the ocean compared to the North West and given growth at MME and NCL, still a country mile behind the North East, which has a catchment area about half the size.
682
With the CAA recently publishing its data for September, I dropped the csv file into Excel and produced the following simple analysis. It shows the number of international passengers from the airports around some of the main provincial conurbations.
North West (MAN, LPL) 2,200,000
Midlands (BHX, EMA, CVT) 1,225,000
Ctrl Scotland (EDI, GLA, PIK) 810,000
North East (NCL, MME) 420,000
Yorks (LBA,HUY) 250,000
Personally, I don't think there needs to be much more said. Its maybe worth pointing out that the growth at DSA next year will be adding about 75,000 passengers a month to the Yorkshire total, whilst LBA should be up by about 30,000. Net of reduced IT capacity at LBA and HUY, Yorkshire might therefore sneak up 350,000. A drop in the ocean compared to the North West and given growth at MME and NCL, still a country mile behind the North East, which has a catchment area about half the size.
682
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mmeteeside
flybe's own press release does suggest this, though in a round-about way. The big splash about "major new base at LBA" (with no based aircraft) also stated that 280,000 seats would be on sale. However the currently announced routes of EXT, SOU and BHD fall a long long way short of that, assuming that Q400's will be used.
Mooncrest
Wasn't the MON A320 aircraft used by one of the other tour operators in place of their own aircraft. MYT possibly? I should know really as I flew on it to ALC one summer.
682
IT operators seem to be blind to those sorts of numbers. While the sheep, sorry passengers, tolerate being told their only option is to be herded across to MAN they will keeping getting away with it. It's generally agreed that LoCo's are biting into the tradtional IT market but the IT operators seem to be re-trenching to the major hubs with bigger aircraft. None has tried the opposite model of running smaller aircraft from more regional locations to the non-LoCo destinations (Greek islands, Malta, Cyprus, Canaries etc). The basic economics work against this but under the current IT course the LoCo's will just move in on them more and more.
PTH
flybe's own press release does suggest this, though in a round-about way. The big splash about "major new base at LBA" (with no based aircraft) also stated that 280,000 seats would be on sale. However the currently announced routes of EXT, SOU and BHD fall a long long way short of that, assuming that Q400's will be used.
Mooncrest
Wasn't the MON A320 aircraft used by one of the other tour operators in place of their own aircraft. MYT possibly? I should know really as I flew on it to ALC one summer.
682
IT operators seem to be blind to those sorts of numbers. While the sheep, sorry passengers, tolerate being told their only option is to be herded across to MAN they will keeping getting away with it. It's generally agreed that LoCo's are biting into the tradtional IT market but the IT operators seem to be re-trenching to the major hubs with bigger aircraft. None has tried the opposite model of running smaller aircraft from more regional locations to the non-LoCo destinations (Greek islands, Malta, Cyprus, Canaries etc). The basic economics work against this but under the current IT course the LoCo's will just move in on them more and more.
PTH
Last edited by PTH needs tarmac; 15th Dec 2004 at 08:26.
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PTH
It now seems very likely that the IT carriers will re invent themselfs as low cost airlines, TUI is one of Europes biggest operators and has both the money and scale of operation to do it right.
In addition they have the chain of travel shops to promote the traditional IT holidays and feed the passengers on to their LoCo brand and sell flight only tickets, they will not sit back and let the new boys take all the business.
It will be very interesting to watch lba pax figures month/year on year to see what effect DSA and Jet2 move to Manchester has. I also hear that Jet2 Paris route is not doing to well and is likely to follow Milan's sad demise (a shame really, but neither are shaghappy routes)
On the other hand i hear that JET2 are looking at LBA-EDI for the leisure market not catered for by bmi business offering
bmi are hoping that the new India route will increase LBA-LHR traffic from March, which will work well with the increased capacity on this route when the last of the Fokker's go in April/May
Flybe will be basing at least two D400 at Leeds next Summer and there may be a 146 as well with new routes to be announced in January (France looks to be a good bet)
Leeds should at long last get a german route next spring, favourite is Luffty with a CRJ (this will be sold as a bmi code share)
bmi are planning a major push at Leeds with more frequent flights to EDI (5 rotations a day) 4 on ERJ 1 on either a 319 or a wet leased 146, new crew rooms and a dedicated business lounge and check in area. Leeds is now bmi most profitable base after BHD & LHR, mainly thanks to the Bankers
Cheers
Burt
In addition they have the chain of travel shops to promote the traditional IT holidays and feed the passengers on to their LoCo brand and sell flight only tickets, they will not sit back and let the new boys take all the business.
It will be very interesting to watch lba pax figures month/year on year to see what effect DSA and Jet2 move to Manchester has. I also hear that Jet2 Paris route is not doing to well and is likely to follow Milan's sad demise (a shame really, but neither are shaghappy routes)
On the other hand i hear that JET2 are looking at LBA-EDI for the leisure market not catered for by bmi business offering
bmi are hoping that the new India route will increase LBA-LHR traffic from March, which will work well with the increased capacity on this route when the last of the Fokker's go in April/May
Flybe will be basing at least two D400 at Leeds next Summer and there may be a 146 as well with new routes to be announced in January (France looks to be a good bet)
Leeds should at long last get a german route next spring, favourite is Luffty with a CRJ (this will be sold as a bmi code share)
bmi are planning a major push at Leeds with more frequent flights to EDI (5 rotations a day) 4 on ERJ 1 on either a 319 or a wet leased 146, new crew rooms and a dedicated business lounge and check in area. Leeds is now bmi most profitable base after BHD & LHR, mainly thanks to the Bankers
Cheers
Burt