Fly Jet Green closed
Join Date: Nov 2001
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quote ......
"When will the public learn that cheap means the American interpretation of that word, i.e. it is poor quality, base and shoddy?"
surely we should be talking about "Low Cost" ..... not "Cheap"
Low Cost carriers offer a basic service that millions of passengers seem to want and thousands of Air Crew are happy to Fly
not sure where JetGreen fit in but any Airline that goes bust after a weeks flying is not Low cost ........ they are XXXXXXX XXXXX's
"When will the public learn that cheap means the American interpretation of that word, i.e. it is poor quality, base and shoddy?"
surely we should be talking about "Low Cost" ..... not "Cheap"
Low Cost carriers offer a basic service that millions of passengers seem to want and thousands of Air Crew are happy to Fly
not sure where JetGreen fit in but any Airline that goes bust after a weeks flying is not Low cost ........ they are XXXXXXX XXXXX's
Join Date: Apr 2004
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I too am disappointed to hear the loss as i was looknig forward to another airline operating from DUB. Again its the public that suffer.
I know 4 friends who flew to malaga with jetgreen and returned safely to Dublin. They said the aircraft was full or very close to full and the service was up to scratch with no complaints.
I heard that they had sold 40,000 tickets from its website before the airline began service. The first 12 seats on every flight of the 757 were €1(All in including Taxes + charges) The rest were reasonably priced compared with national rivals ryanair and aer lingus.
Its a shame that this was allowed to happen. As someone mentioned already, Fresh Aer was mentioned in the partnership to form Jetgreen Airlines, which was dodgy from the outset.
I just hope the irish aviation regulatory authority can
punish the pr
ks that were allowed to destroy numerous holidays this year.
Darrell
I know 4 friends who flew to malaga with jetgreen and returned safely to Dublin. They said the aircraft was full or very close to full and the service was up to scratch with no complaints.
I heard that they had sold 40,000 tickets from its website before the airline began service. The first 12 seats on every flight of the 757 were €1(All in including Taxes + charges) The rest were reasonably priced compared with national rivals ryanair and aer lingus.
Its a shame that this was allowed to happen. As someone mentioned already, Fresh Aer was mentioned in the partnership to form Jetgreen Airlines, which was dodgy from the outset.
I just hope the irish aviation regulatory authority can
punish the pr
ks that were allowed to destroy numerous holidays this year.Darrell
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Nothing to to with FreshAer!!!
FreshAer suffered from the outset by the lack of financial input by the same alleged investors in JetGreen. At least FreshAer was able to repay everyone who booked a seat even it if it did fail to get off the ground.
FreshAer suffered from the outset by the lack of financial input by the same alleged investors in JetGreen. At least FreshAer was able to repay everyone who booked a seat even it if it did fail to get off the ground.
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"Ireland seem to have more than their fair share of dodgy outfits and failed airlines. Are we sure the IAA are carrying out their duties as they should?"
Would you care to elaborate sir? Jet green were the only venture that actually got off the ground and then collapsed so quickly.
Jetmagic (another airline based in Cork) were a great airline, but like many other start ups, just couldnt cut the mustard in this tough environment due to hoped for high yield pax simply not materialising. None the less it was going for quite a bit longer than a week, so i'll not include this in the list at all, as there were obvious commercial reasons for it's closure.
Freshaer did not even get off the ground.. so where is the harm there?
One seemingly dodgy failed Airline is hardly end of the world when all around us there are major carriers on the brink of collapse. In Ireland we have a reasonably competitive airline industry where new airlines actually stand some chance against the national operator, who in our case at least, isnt a virtual monopoly that stamps out all competition. This year alone Air littoral and West Air France, and last year Air Lib, air lib express and Aeris all went bust. Perhaps you might like to question if the authorities in your country are doing their job correctly?
A bit more fact as opposed to fiction next time please.... oh, and lastly who are the dodgy operators exactly???
Would you care to elaborate sir? Jet green were the only venture that actually got off the ground and then collapsed so quickly.
Jetmagic (another airline based in Cork) were a great airline, but like many other start ups, just couldnt cut the mustard in this tough environment due to hoped for high yield pax simply not materialising. None the less it was going for quite a bit longer than a week, so i'll not include this in the list at all, as there were obvious commercial reasons for it's closure.
Freshaer did not even get off the ground.. so where is the harm there?
One seemingly dodgy failed Airline is hardly end of the world when all around us there are major carriers on the brink of collapse. In Ireland we have a reasonably competitive airline industry where new airlines actually stand some chance against the national operator, who in our case at least, isnt a virtual monopoly that stamps out all competition. This year alone Air littoral and West Air France, and last year Air Lib, air lib express and Aeris all went bust. Perhaps you might like to question if the authorities in your country are doing their job correctly?
A bit more fact as opposed to fiction next time please.... oh, and lastly who are the dodgy operators exactly???
Last edited by SNNEI; 18th May 2004 at 01:13.
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SNNEI, Thank you for your polite and well-stated reply. You set a standard for these forums which we could all do well to emulate.
The reasons for my post were twofold:
Firstly, to promote debate. I seem to have been at least partially successful in this.
Secondly I understand that the purpose of the certification phase of a new airline is to ensure as far as possible that said airline is ready and able to operate and that they have enough capital to see them through at least one year of operation. Both airlines mentioned failed in these criteria.
At least some of the airlines you compared with in France were in operation for much longer, so like any business, could fail. I am not familiar with them all.
In dodgy, I meant ill founded as opposed to dangerous or unsafe.
As a two-times victim of airline failure myself, I simply feel so sorry for the employees, creditors and pax who are the victims.
The reasons for my post were twofold:
Firstly, to promote debate. I seem to have been at least partially successful in this.
Secondly I understand that the purpose of the certification phase of a new airline is to ensure as far as possible that said airline is ready and able to operate and that they have enough capital to see them through at least one year of operation. Both airlines mentioned failed in these criteria.
At least some of the airlines you compared with in France were in operation for much longer, so like any business, could fail. I am not familiar with them all.
In dodgy, I meant ill founded as opposed to dangerous or unsafe.
As a two-times victim of airline failure myself, I simply feel so sorry for the employees, creditors and pax who are the victims.
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Chomeur,
Yes, you certainly seem to have promoted a debate alright! ;-)
I apologise if at any time my tone seemed harsh, but your post did annoy me a bit, as Irish aviation has an excellent track record in terms of safety and innovation.
Unfortunatly, we have been frequently slandered throughout our history as being stupid and inferior, mainly by some less informed individuals from our former colonial occupier, and this makes us quite defensive sometimes!
Aviation is one thing we do very well (among a host of others of course
and I firmly believe that this record remains untarnished by the jetgreen events. I think the system worked well: they were gotten rid of before any major harm could be done. While PAX were stranded, Jetgreen were bonded, so everyone will get their money back.
Again, i'm sorry if my tone was harsh, and I appreciate your efforts to stimulate a debate.
Yes, you certainly seem to have promoted a debate alright! ;-)
I apologise if at any time my tone seemed harsh, but your post did annoy me a bit, as Irish aviation has an excellent track record in terms of safety and innovation.
Unfortunatly, we have been frequently slandered throughout our history as being stupid and inferior, mainly by some less informed individuals from our former colonial occupier, and this makes us quite defensive sometimes!
Aviation is one thing we do very well (among a host of others of course
and I firmly believe that this record remains untarnished by the jetgreen events. I think the system worked well: they were gotten rid of before any major harm could be done. While PAX were stranded, Jetgreen were bonded, so everyone will get their money back.Again, i'm sorry if my tone was harsh, and I appreciate your efforts to stimulate a debate.
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Chomeur... I believe you were asking a "rather" harmless question, no harm in that!
SNNEI... Congratulations on your posts and response defending the Irish aviation industry. I believe it is an industry to be proud of, and being based here in an "important" aviation capital in France, I know most people around here have a very high appreciation of the Irish aviation industry. I also agree with Chomeur's opinion towards your posts in which he truly states that your posts set a standard we could all do well to emulate. I second Chomeur on this and reading your "sensible" posts, and especially when I contrast them to many (obviously NOT all) of the posts here, redaing yours makes me PROUD to be Irish.
SNNEI... Congratulations on your posts and response defending the Irish aviation industry. I believe it is an industry to be proud of, and being based here in an "important" aviation capital in France, I know most people around here have a very high appreciation of the Irish aviation industry. I also agree with Chomeur's opinion towards your posts in which he truly states that your posts set a standard we could all do well to emulate. I second Chomeur on this and reading your "sensible" posts, and especially when I contrast them to many (obviously NOT all) of the posts here, redaing yours makes me PROUD to be Irish.
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Congrats on your Post SNNEI, Your are truly correct and im glad you ve cleared up that topic
Not to take away from SNNEI's comments about the irish aviation authority as i too am irish and feel the same way, but steps should be taken by the irish regulators and indeed international regulators to stop these people from operating airlines without proper capital or forecasting. If Jetgreens downfall was due to improperly booked(or not booked) landing slots at Dublin, Big issues arise as how this could be let happen
Ireland indeed does have a commendable history in aviation, let it not be tarnished by such floundering as Jetgreen have done
Not to take away from SNNEI's comments about the irish aviation authority as i too am irish and feel the same way, but steps should be taken by the irish regulators and indeed international regulators to stop these people from operating airlines without proper capital or forecasting. If Jetgreens downfall was due to improperly booked(or not booked) landing slots at Dublin, Big issues arise as how this could be let happen
Ireland indeed does have a commendable history in aviation, let it not be tarnished by such floundering as Jetgreen have done
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Everyone,
I am most humbled by your feedback on my posts, and I thank you all sincerely.
It is all too common on these fora that a good discussion is turned into a slagging match, or as I put it once "the online equivalent of a bitch slapping contest". While I was initially a bit annoyed at Chomeur's post, I refuse to stoop to the level of personally insulting anyone to make my point. There are far better ways to get your ideas across than some of the nonsense we are all subjected to daily by the loud mouths, or sorry, "professionals" as most of them like to be called...
I would just like to make it clear to Chomeur that there are no hard feelings from my end whatsoever, and I am most grateful to him for the opportunity to clear the matter up.. indeed he is welcome for a beer the next time he visits our shores!
Tom the Tenor,
I received your reply to my initial message, but did not receive anything else. If you have sent something else, please resend, and I'll have a read immediatlely. Cheers for the advice on that other matter by the way
I am most humbled by your feedback on my posts, and I thank you all sincerely.
It is all too common on these fora that a good discussion is turned into a slagging match, or as I put it once "the online equivalent of a bitch slapping contest". While I was initially a bit annoyed at Chomeur's post, I refuse to stoop to the level of personally insulting anyone to make my point. There are far better ways to get your ideas across than some of the nonsense we are all subjected to daily by the loud mouths, or sorry, "professionals" as most of them like to be called...
I would just like to make it clear to Chomeur that there are no hard feelings from my end whatsoever, and I am most grateful to him for the opportunity to clear the matter up.. indeed he is welcome for a beer the next time he visits our shores!
Tom the Tenor,
I received your reply to my initial message, but did not receive anything else. If you have sent something else, please resend, and I'll have a read immediatlely. Cheers for the advice on that other matter by the way
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I thought that the EU rules for licensing new airlines required that any airline should have sufficient capital to be able to survive for three months without any revenue. So waht happened in the case of Jet Green. Did they not have the capital in the first place in which case thay should not habe been licensed. Or what?
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Colgate,
We wish we knew for certain. Details are scant to say the least.
To clarify a few points for you:
1) Jetgreen were not an airline, but a tour operator. Icelandair provided the aircraft etc. I am not well up on Aviation regulatory law, so I am unsure exactly what the legal differences are in relation to capital etc.
2) Jetgreen had not secured Dublin airport slots for new routes to Rome, Faro, Nice. Aer Rianta (Dublin airport owners) ordered them to apply for said slots at once, or face refferal to the aviation regulator here in Ireland. It is to be assumed that this had something to do with it's downfall. One theory is that investors pulled the plug once they heard of this.
3) There was also an incident before Jetgreen even got in the air, where they publicly stated that Icelandair would provide the planes. Icelandair were not too happy as this had not been fully agreed upon (though obviously negotiations were advanced)
Jetgreen should have learned a lesson from this, but clearly didnt.
I'm afraid that is all we really know for sure, but we wait for further developments, and with a hope that this is not allowed to happen again.
We wish we knew for certain. Details are scant to say the least.
To clarify a few points for you:
1) Jetgreen were not an airline, but a tour operator. Icelandair provided the aircraft etc. I am not well up on Aviation regulatory law, so I am unsure exactly what the legal differences are in relation to capital etc.
2) Jetgreen had not secured Dublin airport slots for new routes to Rome, Faro, Nice. Aer Rianta (Dublin airport owners) ordered them to apply for said slots at once, or face refferal to the aviation regulator here in Ireland. It is to be assumed that this had something to do with it's downfall. One theory is that investors pulled the plug once they heard of this.
3) There was also an incident before Jetgreen even got in the air, where they publicly stated that Icelandair would provide the planes. Icelandair were not too happy as this had not been fully agreed upon (though obviously negotiations were advanced)
Jetgreen should have learned a lesson from this, but clearly didnt.
I'm afraid that is all we really know for sure, but we wait for further developments, and with a hope that this is not allowed to happen again.
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And now I hear Skynet have joined Jet Green in the great Junkyard in the sky.
Their one remaining aircraft was re-posessed last night and their website now diverts to blind links.
For some people it is the 3rd time since '99 (AB, VEI and now probably Skynet) that this has happened.
Their one remaining aircraft was re-posessed last night and their website now diverts to blind links.
For some people it is the 3rd time since '99 (AB, VEI and now probably Skynet) that this has happened.
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Site is back up and running, but it's impossible to book. Apparently, Dublin to Moscow has been suspended indefinitely. One of Skynets planes is with Shannon Aerospace at present.
If they are still running, I have this to say:
I wish them the very best of luck: their staff are wonderful, BUT:
Get your act together with marketing your service; Why does everyone from this area still fly with Ryanair to Charleroi when wanting to go to Amsterdam? Because they dont know about you and think you offer high fares.
Market this in Holland: there is a huge Irish expat community in Holland who know nothing about you (Trust me, I was one of them) There is also a huge demand among the Dutch for flights to Ireland; they are not going to come looking for you, so start exploiting that demand.
Get yourselves into the res systems: any airline that flies into Schiphol needs the connection possibilities that it offers, unless it flies from larger cities (i.e Easyjet, Jet2 etc)
Stop routing flights via DUB whenever it suits you: your regulars need a reliable operation, and one where the timetable isnt constantly changing.
I myself gave Skynet my full support, but the above was just too much, and I switched back to EI. You do not need to be sending customers away, particularly potential frequent flyers. Just because Aeroflot pays most of the bills for the AMS-SVO operation, should not make skynet managment complacent: there is money to be made, but sometimes, you need to spend it first!!
If they are still running, I have this to say:
I wish them the very best of luck: their staff are wonderful, BUT:
Get your act together with marketing your service; Why does everyone from this area still fly with Ryanair to Charleroi when wanting to go to Amsterdam? Because they dont know about you and think you offer high fares.
Market this in Holland: there is a huge Irish expat community in Holland who know nothing about you (Trust me, I was one of them) There is also a huge demand among the Dutch for flights to Ireland; they are not going to come looking for you, so start exploiting that demand.
Get yourselves into the res systems: any airline that flies into Schiphol needs the connection possibilities that it offers, unless it flies from larger cities (i.e Easyjet, Jet2 etc)
Stop routing flights via DUB whenever it suits you: your regulars need a reliable operation, and one where the timetable isnt constantly changing.
I myself gave Skynet my full support, but the above was just too much, and I switched back to EI. You do not need to be sending customers away, particularly potential frequent flyers. Just because Aeroflot pays most of the bills for the AMS-SVO operation, should not make skynet managment complacent: there is money to be made, but sometimes, you need to spend it first!!