Advanced rumours for new bmibaby Teesside routes
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There is no doubt that catchment area has a major impact on the limited growth of Cardiff in comparison to Bristol. However I do not believe that is the only reason for Bristols extensive growth over the last 5 years.
Bristol airport must have employed lobbyists to gain all the advantages they have done , and i congratulate them for it. I too am glad to see the growth and success of Bristol I do however wish to see the same thing happen this side of the Severn estuary.
There are more affluent areas in South Wales than simply Cardiff Bay , and the low cost market has tapped into a market that previously travelled to Birmingham.
The Welsh Assembly Government however needs to get off its backside and do something about the transport Links to the Airport , they have dithered and dithered over the new road, the link will seriously reduce the travelling time to the airport and will potentially enable Cardiff to tap into markets previously unthinkable to us.
Baby I am assured intend to increase the Aircraft capacity as soon as they are able to source more aircraft again ( BMI haven't taken so gladly to the success that is Baby by all accounts)
Maybe with Baby reducing their fleet this summer the WAG may finally realise they have to do something and soon.
Bristol airport must have employed lobbyists to gain all the advantages they have done , and i congratulate them for it. I too am glad to see the growth and success of Bristol I do however wish to see the same thing happen this side of the Severn estuary.
There are more affluent areas in South Wales than simply Cardiff Bay , and the low cost market has tapped into a market that previously travelled to Birmingham.
The Welsh Assembly Government however needs to get off its backside and do something about the transport Links to the Airport , they have dithered and dithered over the new road, the link will seriously reduce the travelling time to the airport and will potentially enable Cardiff to tap into markets previously unthinkable to us.
Baby I am assured intend to increase the Aircraft capacity as soon as they are able to source more aircraft again ( BMI haven't taken so gladly to the success that is Baby by all accounts)
Maybe with Baby reducing their fleet this summer the WAG may finally realise they have to do something and soon.
The nail has been squarely hit on the head. South Wales is a poor area.
You need lots of businessmen on domestics and lots of second home in the sun owners on the Med runs to make a really good low cost airline base. Bristol has both in abundance whilst Cardiff does not.
Its not the fault of the Welsh assembley nor the managers at either airport.
It doesn't matter a jot about what the last 15 miles of road is like to either airport either. Battling your way into Heathrow or Gatwick is often misery and even if the motorways are flowing you are still going to end up in car park Z5 miles from the terminal - unlike BRS and CWL.
I can't see how anyone other than members of BMI Ops planning dept can say that this aircraft/route withdrawel is either temporary or caused by a 'lack' of aircraft available. Doesn't make sense - sorry. If the route makes money why annoy all its users by withdrawing it for a while? If you really need another aircraft then there are plenty of pilots in the group available and the leases on B737-300s are on the floor with aircraft - available tomorrow - currently parked in Bournemouth....
Cheers
WWW
You need lots of businessmen on domestics and lots of second home in the sun owners on the Med runs to make a really good low cost airline base. Bristol has both in abundance whilst Cardiff does not.
Its not the fault of the Welsh assembley nor the managers at either airport.
It doesn't matter a jot about what the last 15 miles of road is like to either airport either. Battling your way into Heathrow or Gatwick is often misery and even if the motorways are flowing you are still going to end up in car park Z5 miles from the terminal - unlike BRS and CWL.
I can't see how anyone other than members of BMI Ops planning dept can say that this aircraft/route withdrawel is either temporary or caused by a 'lack' of aircraft available. Doesn't make sense - sorry. If the route makes money why annoy all its users by withdrawing it for a while? If you really need another aircraft then there are plenty of pilots in the group available and the leases on B737-300s are on the floor with aircraft - available tomorrow - currently parked in Bournemouth....
Cheers
WWW
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Low cost airlines have taken a lot of the cost out of the business, however they haven't changed the fundamentals that much.
There are some routes from some bases that simply won't take or sustain a 737 type operation.
This is very much a case of first to market gets the best and most profitable bases and routes. By the time baby got going ezy/Go and FR had cornered off the best routes from the best bases - DUB, STN, LTN, LGW, EDI, GLA, BRS, BFS, NCL, PIK, LPL etc.
Where did that leave - CWL, MME (both low yeilding), EMA (up against ezy) and MAN (which is swimming with charter alternatives).
Oh and the established operators also have a significant number of European bases to make money on when the going gets tough in the UK.
MOL thinks there will only be two big low cost carriers in Europe in the longer term. I'm with him on this one.
There are some routes from some bases that simply won't take or sustain a 737 type operation.
This is very much a case of first to market gets the best and most profitable bases and routes. By the time baby got going ezy/Go and FR had cornered off the best routes from the best bases - DUB, STN, LTN, LGW, EDI, GLA, BRS, BFS, NCL, PIK, LPL etc.
Where did that leave - CWL, MME (both low yeilding), EMA (up against ezy) and MAN (which is swimming with charter alternatives).
Oh and the established operators also have a significant number of European bases to make money on when the going gets tough in the UK.
MOL thinks there will only be two big low cost carriers in Europe in the longer term. I'm with him on this one.
Why limit success?
What intrigues me is the statement that BMI won't allow baby more than 13 737s.
If it's a success, it needs as many as it can cope with.
If it's losing shed loads of cash, it needs to be constrained.
With 13 aircraft, baby is a significant size for a UK airline. If it's profitable, or moving that way, Sir MB will want to invest in its future success. If it shows no sign of long term profitability, it should close. There's not much ground in between, so can someone say why it is being limited?
If it's a success, it needs as many as it can cope with.
If it's losing shed loads of cash, it needs to be constrained.
With 13 aircraft, baby is a significant size for a UK airline. If it's profitable, or moving that way, Sir MB will want to invest in its future success. If it shows no sign of long term profitability, it should close. There's not much ground in between, so can someone say why it is being limited?
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In reply to LGS6753 - the answer is politics. You are exactly right; if baby is a success, let it grow, else can it. For the record, baby is doing remarkably well financially, but there are some political reasons being mooted at Donington Hall that suggest common sense is out the window for a bit.....
Uncle Monty - firstly, you have missed the point about low costs. They grow markets. If you had tried to convince anyone at STN five years ago that they would be putting a zillion people through Hahn, or Baden-Baden, or any of a dozen others, you'd have been sectioned under the mental health act. But they do. CWL and MME are still building; markets are being grown here. And as for "CWL, MME (both low yeilding)" - nope, wrong. Well, no more low yielding than most other loco bases - the nature of the game is low yield but high volume - that's the point!
WWW - South Wales "poor"??? I will grant you, pockets of it are less affluent, much like pockets of Bristol (bet YOU don't live in St Pauls...) - but, amazing as it may seem, we don't all work down the pit, or in the steelworks, or down the docks. We don't all live in 2up 2down hovels clinging to the side of a derelict valley. Many of us live very nicely thank you, and we may earn a bit less than those lucky bods in the South East of England, but then, I don't get raped for £1.000 council tax on a shoebox either (£340 for my band E, thank you, right in Cardiff Bay, cinema and restaurants at the end of my road). And remember, the whole point of low cost is that it allows the less affluent to travel - accountants, bankers and 737 skippers can sit and sip their champagne in BA lounges, the rest of us can travel with baby et al.
Must dash. Got the pawnbroker dropping by so that I can flog my first-born for a fiver to feed the meter.
TA
Just a thought, www .... has your employer managed to start selling next summer's timetable yet? Baby's getting one hell of a march on you, aren't they? Tony must be laughing himself sore at Uncle R..... Now that would have nothing to do with your baby-battering would it, www??
Uncle Monty - firstly, you have missed the point about low costs. They grow markets. If you had tried to convince anyone at STN five years ago that they would be putting a zillion people through Hahn, or Baden-Baden, or any of a dozen others, you'd have been sectioned under the mental health act. But they do. CWL and MME are still building; markets are being grown here. And as for "CWL, MME (both low yeilding)" - nope, wrong. Well, no more low yielding than most other loco bases - the nature of the game is low yield but high volume - that's the point!
WWW - South Wales "poor"??? I will grant you, pockets of it are less affluent, much like pockets of Bristol (bet YOU don't live in St Pauls...) - but, amazing as it may seem, we don't all work down the pit, or in the steelworks, or down the docks. We don't all live in 2up 2down hovels clinging to the side of a derelict valley. Many of us live very nicely thank you, and we may earn a bit less than those lucky bods in the South East of England, but then, I don't get raped for £1.000 council tax on a shoebox either (£340 for my band E, thank you, right in Cardiff Bay, cinema and restaurants at the end of my road). And remember, the whole point of low cost is that it allows the less affluent to travel - accountants, bankers and 737 skippers can sit and sip their champagne in BA lounges, the rest of us can travel with baby et al.
Must dash. Got the pawnbroker dropping by so that I can flog my first-born for a fiver to feed the meter.
TA
Just a thought, www .... has your employer managed to start selling next summer's timetable yet? Baby's getting one hell of a march on you, aren't they? Tony must be laughing himself sore at Uncle R..... Now that would have nothing to do with your baby-battering would it, www??
South Wales is a poor area subject to EU funding for deprived regions. I'm not knocking the fact, I was born and bred in Mid Wales which is even poorer.
Air travel is hugely discretionary. You don't NEED to take city breaks and you don't NEED a second home. Two significant sources of no frills customers. And to answer your question, yes, EZY Bristols summer programme is now on sale - including this years additional routes of Copenhagen, Bibao and Amersterdam.
Cheers,
WWW
Air travel is hugely discretionary. You don't NEED to take city breaks and you don't NEED a second home. Two significant sources of no frills customers. And to answer your question, yes, EZY Bristols summer programme is now on sale - including this years additional routes of Copenhagen, Bibao and Amersterdam.
Cheers,
WWW
Forgive my ignorance but what is SWS and 6G?
Cheers
WWW
ps epic thread wander.
Cheers
WWW
ps epic thread wander.
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SWS is Swansea and 6G is Air Wales.
Up Swansea, Up Air Wales and Up Cork which is a happy recipient of flights from both Air Wales and bmi baby. Baby is transforming a lot of flights at Cork with services to MAN, EMA, CWL and hopefully some time next year MME.
A serious question I have for EZY is how well have they studied the chances of a flight from LGW to ORK? In it's last year of operation BA City Flyer flew 160,000 pax between LGW and Cork. Surely, surely there is good business for a good operator to be had on LGW-ORK??
Up Swansea, Up Air Wales and Up Cork which is a happy recipient of flights from both Air Wales and bmi baby. Baby is transforming a lot of flights at Cork with services to MAN, EMA, CWL and hopefully some time next year MME.
A serious question I have for EZY is how well have they studied the chances of a flight from LGW to ORK? In it's last year of operation BA City Flyer flew 160,000 pax between LGW and Cork. Surely, surely there is good business for a good operator to be had on LGW-ORK??
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As someone who's lived in Cardiff and Bristol I'd like to just add that if you want to see decay, despair and abject poverty then have a wander round most of Bristol City!
There are scarier people, places and sights in that city than I ever saw in Cardiff! Beggars on the street everywhere, ghettos, drug related shootings an everyday occurence..Bristol's an overrated, overpriced dump IMHO.
Cardiff's taken enormous strides forward in the last ten years and is now as cosmopolitan as Bristol thinks it is.
There are scarier people, places and sights in that city than I ever saw in Cardiff! Beggars on the street everywhere, ghettos, drug related shootings an everyday occurence..Bristol's an overrated, overpriced dump IMHO.
Cardiff's taken enormous strides forward in the last ten years and is now as cosmopolitan as Bristol thinks it is.
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Like most large British cities Bristol has areas of deprivation. It also has a drugs problem, again it is not alone in this. However, to say there are daily drug-related shootings is absurd. The problem of on-street drug dealing is largely confined to areas of the inner city.
Bristol has a larger population than Cardiff, much larger if the two conurbations are compared, therefore one might expect to see more social problems. Equally, there is more prosperity.
There are beggars on the streets in the central areas but his is because they see Bristol as an affluent city with plenty of pickings for them.
The late Sir John Betjeman called Bristol his favourite English city, and the architecture that gave rise to these remarks is still there. He was not a bad judge and I would take his opinion on such matters before yours.
Bristol is cosmopolitan and vibrant as witnessed by the opinions of many outside commentators, but so is Cardiff, and the two are not mutually exclusive.
I have lived in Bristol for forty years.
Merry Christmas.
Bristol has a larger population than Cardiff, much larger if the two conurbations are compared, therefore one might expect to see more social problems. Equally, there is more prosperity.
There are beggars on the streets in the central areas but his is because they see Bristol as an affluent city with plenty of pickings for them.
The late Sir John Betjeman called Bristol his favourite English city, and the architecture that gave rise to these remarks is still there. He was not a bad judge and I would take his opinion on such matters before yours.
Bristol is cosmopolitan and vibrant as witnessed by the opinions of many outside commentators, but so is Cardiff, and the two are not mutually exclusive.
I have lived in Bristol for forty years.
Merry Christmas.
Not Manchester
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I visit Bristol quite often on business and I like the place, especially the Old City.
Horts, on Broad Street, is a bloody good pub as is the Royal Oak near the Holiday Inn. I've found it to be an eminently walkable city, and have never felt threatened at any time.
Cardiff, however.........
Horts, on Broad Street, is a bloody good pub as is the Royal Oak near the Holiday Inn. I've found it to be an eminently walkable city, and have never felt threatened at any time.
Cardiff, however.........
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I really think someone ought to talk Sir MB into adding some extra aircraft to the bmibaby fleet, because unlike the case with Air Canada, whose low cost airline zip is restricted to 20 Boeing 737-200s by unions, it doesnt seem to be a problem to expand the airline.
To try and stretch 13 aircraft across 4 bases and to try and consider the airline as a growing and major low-cost-airline is just plane stupid.
I would say to let it have at least 20, and to standardise on the -300 series.
To try and stretch 13 aircraft across 4 bases and to try and consider the airline as a growing and major low-cost-airline is just plane stupid.
I would say to let it have at least 20, and to standardise on the -300 series.
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Re: Cardiff v Bristol... is there an argument here? Both cities have some issues, both have many good points. Both have areas I wouldn't walk around in the daytime, let alone in the dark. Both have room for a sizeable lo-cost airline IMHO.... no-one will win if it does so merely by rubbishing the other!
As for Lite's point - YES baby must be allowed to grow up into more than 13 aircraft.... but as I said in an earlier post, the issue at Donington is not one of common sense.... if you have a "lo cost is where we dump our weak routes and aircraft we don't particularly want on mainline, and we'll give them a bit of head but not much" argument, then you would have to feel pretty miffed if the "runt" airline starts making more money than all your established bits put together - and pretty miffed with the whizz kid who is making it all work in the black...
I would hate to think this is true, and the green-eyed beast of EMA is plotting anyone's downfall.... but jealousy is a cruel and selfish monster, and if it struck here, then the industry as a whole would be a poorer place. C'mon bmi board and Sir M - give Tiny Tony a break and let him do what you pay him to do - build a bigger airline with more bases, planes and customers! Four bases is indeed sustainable with the current route structure, but with 13 a/c it's going to be hellishly tight.... definately need some ATRs from January (as Hand Shandy alluded to)....
I think we could be in for seeing something pretty good from both CWL and BRS....
TA
As for Lite's point - YES baby must be allowed to grow up into more than 13 aircraft.... but as I said in an earlier post, the issue at Donington is not one of common sense.... if you have a "lo cost is where we dump our weak routes and aircraft we don't particularly want on mainline, and we'll give them a bit of head but not much" argument, then you would have to feel pretty miffed if the "runt" airline starts making more money than all your established bits put together - and pretty miffed with the whizz kid who is making it all work in the black...
I would hate to think this is true, and the green-eyed beast of EMA is plotting anyone's downfall.... but jealousy is a cruel and selfish monster, and if it struck here, then the industry as a whole would be a poorer place. C'mon bmi board and Sir M - give Tiny Tony a break and let him do what you pay him to do - build a bigger airline with more bases, planes and customers! Four bases is indeed sustainable with the current route structure, but with 13 a/c it's going to be hellishly tight.... definately need some ATRs from January (as Hand Shandy alluded to)....
I think we could be in for seeing something pretty good from both CWL and BRS....
TA
