GB Airways -- What's this big announcement then ??
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In my experience as a passenger, GB not only have an identity, but what they offer puts BA to shame in the service department. Easy don't have a lot to offer in a straight fight either.
Before anyone gets into £ for £ comparisons, I am referring to a real world comparison of a customer who buys his/her own seat. Whilst price is important, it is only one facet of the whole equation of convenience etc., and I, for one, am heartily sick of the free for all rush for a seat and the prehistoric cabin service of Easy. Monarch Scheduled are pretty good as well, only let down by the cattle class seat pitch.
I, like many others I know will do anything to avoid the truly naff Easy experience. I am not too keen on the overtly superior attitude we have to put up with from BA either, Quidnunc.
Before anyone gets into £ for £ comparisons, I am referring to a real world comparison of a customer who buys his/her own seat. Whilst price is important, it is only one facet of the whole equation of convenience etc., and I, for one, am heartily sick of the free for all rush for a seat and the prehistoric cabin service of Easy. Monarch Scheduled are pretty good as well, only let down by the cattle class seat pitch.
I, like many others I know will do anything to avoid the truly naff Easy experience. I am not too keen on the overtly superior attitude we have to put up with from BA either, Quidnunc.
Join Date: May 2002
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I guess its some sort of cut back. Times are tough. In previous recessions, one or two big UK airlines usually go out of business. This gets rid of overcapacity and allows the others to survive.
The cut backs will be for a year or so, just long enough for the airline that everyone is expecting to go under, actually does go under. Then GB will continue expanding slowly again, on the back of realistic fare levels that allow some profit.
Its definately not a BA buy out - BA can't afford it with £5 billion of debt, and a commitment to shareholders to reduce this figure.
The cut backs will be for a year or so, just long enough for the airline that everyone is expecting to go under, actually does go under. Then GB will continue expanding slowly again, on the back of realistic fare levels that allow some profit.
Its definately not a BA buy out - BA can't afford it with £5 billion of debt, and a commitment to shareholders to reduce this figure.
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It will all come good in the end. There are problems but GB have been around a long time and will be around a long time after some of the competition has shut up shop.
Last edited by Norman Stanley Fletcher; 4th Dec 2003 at 05:40.
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Just to claify a couple of pointers. Maersk as it was known pulled out of the franchise because the Company was loosing too much money. This didn't help matters when BA started to put restrictions on what routes that Maersk could operate. eg no Spanish or Portugese routes from BHX as another carrier at LGW operate them!!
If it was thought that BA's route structure would be affected then no way would they let a franchise operate them.
Shame Maersk didnt pull out of the franchise years ago and start the low cost market then. Oh well that was all in the past.!!!
If it was thought that BA's route structure would be affected then no way would they let a franchise operate them.
Shame Maersk didnt pull out of the franchise years ago and start the low cost market then. Oh well that was all in the past.!!!
GB vs the Rest
This started off as a rumour thread and has now turned into a general critique of GB Air vs low costs and BA, so I may as well throw my tuppence worth in about the real issue for SLF that is also self paying - PRICE.
I spend most of my time aloft driving myself in a PA28 but Tenerife, which I visit twice or more a year is too far. Thus I need a bigger aeroplane but at the best price. The most straightforward choices are GB Air, who I agree do not advertise their service at all and are booked via the BA web site ..... or BMI.
The unpalatable alternatives are Monarch Crown from Luton (too far away) or Britt, Monarch, or Tommy Cook ex LGW, via some bucket shop web site and normally with flights at very unholy hours and impenetrable pricing and (as said above) prehistoric cabin service. Excel also advertise their flights direct but they really seem to treat it as a joke with either stupid prices or wierd length trips (3 days, 11 days, 21 days etc) and no flexibility to pick my own outbound/inbound dates.
So the choice is to compare prices on BA or GoBMI. Simply BMI won, with an £88.00 e/w ticket where BA quote astonishingly stupid prices - up to £450.00 one way (admittedly on 24/12/03).
How much say do GB Air have over the fares ??? BA's computer led me a merry dance for a whole week before I gave up. It started by looking reasonable but as soon as I combined an out/in date tried to prise £400 for a round trip out of me anytime from 15 Dec to 15 Jan. My expectations based on prior experience mean somewhere from £120 - £200 rt is sensible.
I know airfares are a rapidly moving feast (none more than easyJet as the plane fills up) but all I ask for is the opportunity to know the price on a particular day and be able to make my own choices to which day I go.
I hope my point is clear, GB Air looked OK until BA's computer screwed their pricing. That's why Mike Bishop got the business. Maybe if they go it alone, they'll get my business back. I'm loyaller to my wallet than to any particular airline.
Next question is how can I celebrate the 100 years since Orville and Wilbur ??? at 10.35 am on 17 Dec, (admittedly GMT - not Kitty Hawk time) I shall just about be top of climb on BD545. en route LHR to TFS. I wonder if I can use my GPS sat in the back so I can mark the waypoint I passed at the precise time??
I'd like to have tried for the flight deck for the landing again but 19 guys screwed that up for me forever................
I spend most of my time aloft driving myself in a PA28 but Tenerife, which I visit twice or more a year is too far. Thus I need a bigger aeroplane but at the best price. The most straightforward choices are GB Air, who I agree do not advertise their service at all and are booked via the BA web site ..... or BMI.
The unpalatable alternatives are Monarch Crown from Luton (too far away) or Britt, Monarch, or Tommy Cook ex LGW, via some bucket shop web site and normally with flights at very unholy hours and impenetrable pricing and (as said above) prehistoric cabin service. Excel also advertise their flights direct but they really seem to treat it as a joke with either stupid prices or wierd length trips (3 days, 11 days, 21 days etc) and no flexibility to pick my own outbound/inbound dates.
So the choice is to compare prices on BA or GoBMI. Simply BMI won, with an £88.00 e/w ticket where BA quote astonishingly stupid prices - up to £450.00 one way (admittedly on 24/12/03).
How much say do GB Air have over the fares ??? BA's computer led me a merry dance for a whole week before I gave up. It started by looking reasonable but as soon as I combined an out/in date tried to prise £400 for a round trip out of me anytime from 15 Dec to 15 Jan. My expectations based on prior experience mean somewhere from £120 - £200 rt is sensible.
I know airfares are a rapidly moving feast (none more than easyJet as the plane fills up) but all I ask for is the opportunity to know the price on a particular day and be able to make my own choices to which day I go.
I hope my point is clear, GB Air looked OK until BA's computer screwed their pricing. That's why Mike Bishop got the business. Maybe if they go it alone, they'll get my business back. I'm loyaller to my wallet than to any particular airline.
Next question is how can I celebrate the 100 years since Orville and Wilbur ??? at 10.35 am on 17 Dec, (admittedly GMT - not Kitty Hawk time) I shall just about be top of climb on BD545. en route LHR to TFS. I wonder if I can use my GPS sat in the back so I can mark the waypoint I passed at the precise time??
I'd like to have tried for the flight deck for the landing again but 19 guys screwed that up for me forever................
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Caped crusader has some very strong business recommendations. As usual BA has taken the brunt of the 'blame' for GB present situation.
One issue however is that if GB assumes its old ID might it not be seen as unwelcome on some of its Iberian routes, while the Gibraltar situ drags on.
No one has mentioned the familly Gibraltar either that surely rules the company and may have its own agenda. Is there still a BA director on the GB board.
It does seem strange the vast numbers of BA staff in prominent positions throughout the industry within the UK and beyond.
Finally are the GB crew / staff costs to high to change to an LC operation without stringent changes to the GB setup. As for Maersk how can you compete on Euro routes with an executive jet.
One issue however is that if GB assumes its old ID might it not be seen as unwelcome on some of its Iberian routes, while the Gibraltar situ drags on.
No one has mentioned the familly Gibraltar either that surely rules the company and may have its own agenda. Is there still a BA director on the GB board.
It does seem strange the vast numbers of BA staff in prominent positions throughout the industry within the UK and beyond.
Finally are the GB crew / staff costs to high to change to an LC operation without stringent changes to the GB setup. As for Maersk how can you compete on Euro routes with an executive jet.
After reading Barbaras book on Go it seems pretty clear that BA sold Go because BA unions would get nasty the minute they felt that 'BA work' was being taken by its subsidiary.
BA management could not take any industrial action threats as the city would have gone ballistic on the news. So Go was sold, easyJet picked up all the work - and all the revenue - and 'BA work' continued to be 'lost'.
These events make me sceptical when people speculate that BA is going to give its EOG network to GB, or buy GB outright. It would not fit with recent history to my totally uninformed eyes.
I used to use GB out of Seville and concur that they offer a good product at a price that was affordable even to a Flying Instructor...
Cheers
WWW
BA management could not take any industrial action threats as the city would have gone ballistic on the news. So Go was sold, easyJet picked up all the work - and all the revenue - and 'BA work' continued to be 'lost'.
These events make me sceptical when people speculate that BA is going to give its EOG network to GB, or buy GB outright. It would not fit with recent history to my totally uninformed eyes.
I used to use GB out of Seville and concur that they offer a good product at a price that was affordable even to a Flying Instructor...
Cheers
WWW
HZ123,
Do you mean a vast number of (EX -BA staff in prominent positions throughout the industry in the UK and Beyond..... or it's strange BA staff hold prominent positions....in BA.
The ones I've meet outside BA were sacked or retired...Is Skippy looking for a job at GB.
Do you mean a vast number of (EX -BA staff in prominent positions throughout the industry in the UK and Beyond..... or it's strange BA staff hold prominent positions....in BA.
The ones I've meet outside BA were sacked or retired...Is Skippy looking for a job at GB.
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The Maersk point is interesting as when they wanted to operate to Spain/Portugal they had actually rejected a move by BD earlier in the year to operate a low-cost airline from BHX as they didn't want to lose the Maersk name (a conceit on the old man's part). Have a look at BMIBaby and imagine a blue tail but with the backing of BD and the service standards of Maersk. What might have been but for an inept MD and a vain old man......
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hopefully GB have realised like Duo (pre-maersk) that the franchise stifles your buisness, BA have the final word over what you can and can't do - that's some way to run a buisness.
BA treats the franchises like second class citizens - it's a prefect way to wipe out your competitors.......
BA treats the franchises like second class citizens - it's a prefect way to wipe out your competitors.......
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Right I rfered to the numbers of BA senior managers within so many other UK airlines and airport management.
As it appears there has not been an announcement. Perhaps someone may still confirm how many ex-BA managers are still in GB airways.
As it appears there has not been an announcement. Perhaps someone may still confirm how many ex-BA managers are still in GB airways.
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There has been an announcement, and it's nothing too exciting.
1. The 737 fleet goes a couple of months early.
2. Give pax a bun instead of meat & 2 veg.
3. Get up earlier and go to bed later in the summer.
4. General belt-tightening.
5. Ask BA for clearance to operate some new routes and watch them do it themselves.
1. The 737 fleet goes a couple of months early.
2. Give pax a bun instead of meat & 2 veg.
3. Get up earlier and go to bed later in the summer.
4. General belt-tightening.
5. Ask BA for clearance to operate some new routes and watch them do it themselves.
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HZ,
I agree there are many ex-BA managers working in the industry. The question is why are they ex-BA. Surely if they were of value to BA they would still be within BA. Why did they leave BA? Why were they ex-ed?
The question is 'Is BA the industry leader'. The answer has to be no. In many areas commercially, industrially they are in a very bad way. Apart from a brief flash of brilliance post privatisation, their industrial and commercial history is a very sad story.
The danger is that once you let one ex-BA manger he only employs more of his ex-ed mates in. As we all know complacency and arrogance are just as dangerous bedfellows in business as they are in flying.
I agree there are many ex-BA managers working in the industry. The question is why are they ex-BA. Surely if they were of value to BA they would still be within BA. Why did they leave BA? Why were they ex-ed?
The question is 'Is BA the industry leader'. The answer has to be no. In many areas commercially, industrially they are in a very bad way. Apart from a brief flash of brilliance post privatisation, their industrial and commercial history is a very sad story.
The danger is that once you let one ex-BA manger he only employs more of his ex-ed mates in. As we all know complacency and arrogance are just as dangerous bedfellows in business as they are in flying.
