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Nationwide grounded
Just heard that Nationwide is going to have it's entire fleet grounded by the SACAA. Apparently the SACAA has withdrawn the airlines AMO license.
Things must have been really bad there or this is a serious over reaction. Can you imagine how this is going to effect their xmas pax loads due to loss of confidence! Interesting times. |
More like interesting RUMOUR.......................
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Unfortunately it is not a rumour, just heard an interview with Nationwide on 702 their AMO has been withdrawn and all flights have been suspended till further notice.
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Why would they stop flying serviceable aircraft ???????????????????
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Servicable in the eyes of VB or SACAA? Most likely after an inspection by SACAA they found that there AMO was non complient in certain areas when carrying out inspections and servicing. Must have been serious, usually SACAA give the AMO a period of time to correct difficiencies in procedures.With press making such a issue of flight problems in the last month,I wonder if that is not a reaction to that?!
Let the games begin!! |
With press making such a issue of flight problems in the last month,I wonder if that is not a reaction to that?! Idiots they are, these Journalists. (Worse than 2nd hand car salesman - hate them!) :sad: |
WTF have journos got to do with the situation ? NW's maintenace licence was pulled by SACAA, NW grounded their kites "as a precautionary measure", what more do you want ????
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With no AMO how can your engineers sign out your aircraft to fly, and hand over the aircraft to the pilot as servicable to fly..mmmm
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They Should Shut Down The Caa!!!
Grounding Nationwide is just the CAA's way of saving face for failing there FAA audit.
The CAA is playing with the lives of many hard working employees at Nationwide. I think its time that all CEO of all Airlines in South Africa sue the crap out of the SACAA. |
Perhaps the aircraft arent fit to fly... maybe? :bored::eek:
Fact is that the CAA are often criticised if they do nothing and then in this case when they take action on something. I for one never fly Nationwide. Its personal and while I have the utmost respect for the pilots who fly there, there have been questions raised of their maintenance for a long time... for some this may not be surprising I think. This is bitter sweet... its about time VB stops thinking he is untouchable... an airline is a business... treat your aircraft, your staff and your business properly and it will do the same. Money has to be put back in... For the pilots and staff... maybe some good will come of this... there are other airlines out there and if this was going to happen... now is as good a time as any (bar XMas), but its a pilots market... good luck and I hope it all pans out!:ok::ok::ok: |
I for one never fly Nationwide. Its personal and while I have the utmost respect for the pilots who fly there, there have been questions raised of their maintenance for a long time... for some this may not be surprising I think. |
Perhaps your personal comment was a little uncalled for SIGUARDA... the fact that you chose to point out that "in my considered opinion" could be applied to your comment as you quickly mentioned that this was a RUMOUR...:ugh::ugh::ugh:
Point taken though... perhaps I should reserve judgement though, because I know some of them and they are good guys... maybe respect was used loosely. Maybe I just feel sorry for them stuck in the middle of all of this... :rolleyes: I know how hard pilots work to get into airlines and now something like this, when IMHO is caused by one or a few people who are full of self interest and profiteering. I know that VB some years ago wouldnt spend R100 per pilot per month on their loss of license benefit... you have to wonder where he was cutting on the maintenance...:confused: |
Saw a Nationwide aircraft taxing out this morning at OT. Maybe to go and park somewhere in a corner.
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With no AMO how can your engineers sign out your aircraft to fly, and hand over the aircraft to the pilot as servicable to fly..mmmm |
The AME has to be working under an AMO Licence
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Any chance this could be part of a dirty tricks campaign, considering the timing of the grounding, busy time of year, SAA needing more pax......oops did I say that!!!!:}:}
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Nationwide
The grounding of Nationwide,on the first day of school vacation,is a blatent South African Airways involvement in grounding all private white owned airline operators in South Africa.
They cannot compete,so they inform the so called brothers and sisters at the caa do do the dirty work for them,in order that they can fill there aircraft. Comair labour case,is also an example. |
jeeez bru, it was only wind up, now you even got me thinking:confused:
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I wouldn't think too hard about Jetwhite's comment.
If you take a look I think you will find that there is barely a seat available on most of SAA's flights these days. What they need is more capacity, not more passengers. |
Jetwhite I was wondering when SAA was going to be blamed.
I think SAA have more pressing issues at the moment, like restructuring the airline, the management at SAA have neither the time or the imagination to pull of such a stunt at a time like this. You are very quick to blame SAA but lets just suppose that for once the SACAA has done its job properly, it might actually save some lives, how would you like it if your family was vaporised in an aircraft accident, there must be reasons for this move by the SACAA, and rumors have persisted for a long time of sub-standard maintenance by Nationwide, I have friends there who have relayed some horrific stories about captains being told to depart (or threatened with dismissal) even though the MEL says the aircraft is unsuitable to fly. |
Fluffyfan agreed!
CAA well done........at last you are doing your werk! |
Bull Kak
Come on Fluffy. What a load of KAK.
I know a few guys there. Would never happen. If its a no go they won't go!!!! |
Their ''werk'' huh? With spelling like that you should apply for a CAA job, man. Job guaranteed!
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Seems clear enough that the CAA is using this as a publicity stunt. This is a not the first time they have ambushed their opponent (or is that customer) with an ill considered move and then run off with glee to the press trying to claim the glory while everybody is inconvenienced. If there was any level of oversight then any shortcomings could have been addressed without taking drastic action like this. But there’s not. There are lots of meetings, plenty of leave, team building days, more meetings and God knows what else but nary is a proper days work done.
The CAA is so incompetent they can't answer the telephone reliably, but today they are the bastions of safety? What a joke. Not to mention how well they do whenever their standards are checked. Was that another extension you guys needed to try meet the FAA standards given to you 5 years ago? Zakes you are pathetic. Your organisation is pathetic. Your standards are non-existent. And your decision to fight your fight with NW will only damage the industry that WE PAY YOU to promote. |
Well said WhinerLiner , couldn't agree with you more! Time for the Nationwide boys and girls to go back to ''werk''.
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Johannesburg - Nationwide's aircraft will remain grounded until the airline has fixed deficiencies within its maintenance section, the SA Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) said on Friday. The CAA suspended approval for the airline's aircraft maintenance organisation from midnight on Thursday, said CAA chief executive officer Zakes Myeza. It had also suspended the certificates of airworthiness of Nationwide's fleet of 16 aircraft - twelve 737-200s, five 727s and one 767. If the airline did not comply, its licence would be revoked altogether. "It was unavoidable," said Myeza. He said the suspension arose from the airline's failure to comply with an airworthiness directorate issued in September and subsequent audits of its compliance. "We cannot afford to be reckless on this because we are dealing with human lives," said CAA executive legal manager Ntheri Magoai. |
I think the grounding of NW can be termed a masterstroke of misdirection on the part of our overly reactive (as opposed to pro-active) CAA
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MEL never had any value at NTW - afraid to burst your bubble but NTW captains are all to frequently asked to turn on their phones on the flight deck during a technical delay - VB on the line.
All to often snags transposed to servicable aircraft so that an expired DA can be cleared and a new one opened up on the now unservicable aircraft. This practice has been going on for years. Specifics of other maintenance deficiencies can be told by the dozen by many current NTW drivers and ex NTW drivers and recited all too often.Where there's smoke ......... To ty and blame SAA for this is utter C:mad:p! Well done CAA ! About time pilots, especially NTW pilots, got some much needed support on maintenance issues from the regulator . |
You are right P3, Know of a case where a captain was ordered to leave the aircraft and find his own way home, which might have been CPT. He deleted the snag!
I can assure you that before CAA took that dramatic step they would have consulted their own effecient legal system. This will end up in court, they know that, and they had better have their p's and q's lined up. For all those caught in the flak, I am really sorry and I hope it all works out for you. |
Ok so its all a conspiracy theory then... BUT...
What if the CAA are correct? They are damned if they do and damned if they dont.:uhoh::uhoh::uhoh: The rumours of NTW losing the engine at FACT are going wild and depending on who you speak to maintenance comes up more than once. This, in addition to the maintenance rumours of the airline in general, I am inclined to side with the CAA. What if there were fatalities in CT... would everyone be singing a different tune????:ugh: Timing aside, how would you feel if there was an accident and the CAA decided to leave it until after Christmas? So the CAA did it now... when is the right time exactly? We bitch and moan when we have a CAA who does nothing, and now we bitch and moan when they ground an airline which in their opinion may be unsafe due to maintenance issues. This forum is full of moaning about airlines / charter company's. Maintenance comes up more than once, and I dont think anyone has been immune. Why moan when the CAA may be doing something right - IRRESPECTIVE of the motives... and timing. :*:*:*:*:*:=:=:=:sad: Just spoken to a mate of mine who works at NTW. Writing was on the wall, the perception is that it was inevitable, and the feeling is that they are surprised that it took this long... good luck to all pilots and staff...:ooh: |
WTF have journos got to do with the situation ? SA aviation under the spotlight ÜGEN VOS JOHANNESBURG – The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) cannot guarantee there will be no further aviation mishaps during this festive season, but believes it has taken all proper precautionary measures to ensure smooth flights for commuters. November has proven to be a turbulent period for the aviation industry in SA, with many of the nation’s top airlines lambasted by both politicians and the media following recurring reports of technical difficulties on flights. Repeated assurances by the Civil Aviation Authority and the various airlines that all is business as usual, and that recent problems have been overexposed in the media, seem to have done little to dampen the debate. “I cannot say there will be no incidents in December,” said CAA spokesman Phindiwe Gwebu recently, when quizzed about the country’s recent aviation safety track record. The Democratic Alliance (DA) also entered the fray, expressing doubts about South African Airways Technical’s (SAAT) ability to fulfil its maintenance contracts. DA spokesman on Public Enterprises Manie van Dyk said cursory investigations had revealed the majority of the country’s domestic airlines made use of SAAT, and a number of foreign airlines were serviced by SAAT. This meant a staggering 71% of all technical incidents in SA airspace occurred on airlines that had fixed servicing and maintenance contracts with SAAT. Van Dyk stressed that air traffic – and the accompanying technical burden on the South African aviation industry, was likely to swell during the run-up to the 2010 Fifa World Cup. “The popularity of air travel is on the increase, and it will be of great importance that SAAT’s service facilities and service levels are beyond reproach,” he argued. A timeline of scares in the skies * NOVEMBER 2: Plane goes off the runway at Cape Town International airport. Flights delayed. * NOVEMBER 7: Nationwide Boeing 737 makes emergency landing at Cape Town International after losing an engine during takeoff. * NOVEMBER 8: Aircraft makes emergency landing on a farm road in Zonkizizwe (Heidelberg). * NOVEMBER 10: CAA grounds Nationwide 737-200s pending inspections. CAA also receives reports from SAA, Comair, Interair, Star Air Cargo. * NOVEMBER 12: Kulula aircraft turns back to Jhb due to low air pressure warning; lands with only one engine. * NOVEMBER 13 : CAA will not extend directive to inspect Boeing 737-200 class to other aircraft. * NOVEMBER 15: Trade Union Solidarity sounds warning on aviation safety, effect of planned retrenchments at SAA Technical on skills levels. * NOVEMBER 16: Mango aircraft forced to turn back to Durban International due to problem with satellite communication device. * NOVEMBER 20: SAA Express flight to Namibia turns back; Kulula aircraft loses power in auxiliary unit used to start up plane’s engine. * NOVEMBER 21: Two incidents (delay- technical difficulties; plane diverted) not reported to CAA. * NOVEMBER 23: Kulula flight MN913 cancelled due to technical difficulties ; SAA flight to East London turned back after bird blown into engine. CAA says media is giving too much attention to technical issues. * NOVEMBER 26: Passengers on SAA plane moved to another flight due to problem with navigation system. Back to the topic: I'm with CAA on this one. |
Maybe SACAA should not even be in the flying game!:hmm:
Well, they have never heard of the shear bolts that can make an engine fall off the wing, pylon and all if the vibration level get too high. Give me a break! If the SACAA had not done anything, then we should all be complaining, we all as SA pilots get painted with the same brush in the world market, I am glad that they are even in a round about way protecting my reputation as a SA pilot. If they had let this continue, where would SA aviation be when an aircraft falls out the sky with a whole bunch of Amarican and British tourists on board. |
Glad to hear the majority here is with the CAA, especially when nobody here knows exactly why the CAA has grounded NTW. Think before you say, or write something dumb!
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Watta winner:}:}
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Nationwide
It's interesting to see how many many people see "conspiracy" all the time. The fact is Nationwide has been lucky to operate up to now. There have been numerous occasions where their AMO licence needed to be withdrawn, but lifelines where given every time.......by CAA Senior Managers and GM.
VB has been cutting corners for years. Even fired QA personnel because they did not want to sign off on non-conformances. I wonder sometimes if there weren't backhands towards certain CAA officers......otherwise they would have been out of business years ago. How they were allowed to operate for so long baffles me. NW has been roumered to use "bogus parts" for years. At least now we know that "possible unsafe aircraft" aren't carrying people around.....for now! |
With all the talk about MEL's being disregarded and Captains being threatened with dismissal, I only hope the crew on the NW flight which lost an engine out of CT were not forced into something like this. It would really be a nasty one to do such a good job and then still find yourself being nailed! In that case VB can expect their entire pilot pool to get together and speak as one which could result in NW disappearing off the scene. This is not what one wants. Rather lets see NW stand up out of this mess, get their house in order and continue in the proper fashion. I dont want to see good pilots without work but I also dont want unsafe aircraft overhead carrying loved ones. I'm for the pilots here. Best wishes and may there be a happy ending to this.
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My gutfeel would be with the CAA on this one - my only question would be: Why only now and why such drastic measures?
Surely steps to address deficiences over the number of years that Nationwide has been operating would have been more appropriate? The CAA's function is to audit operators to make sure that they meet the prescribed standards - suddenly withdrawing the airline's AOC is as much an indication of failings in the CAAs oversight function as it is of failings in the airline itself. |
From the CAA website:
MEDIA RELEASE FRIDAY, 30 NOVEMBER 2007 THE SA CIVIL AVIATION AUTHORITY GROUNDS NATIONWIDE AIRCRAFT The South African Civil Aviation Authority (SACAA) is hereby announcing that with effect from midnight, 29 November 2007, the approval for the Nationwide Aircraft Maintenance Organization (AMO) has been suspended in terms of Part 145 of the Civil Aviation Regulations. This action has been necessitated by the inability of the AMO to demonstrate full compliance with the applicable Civil Aviation Regulations of 1997 as amended and thereby is unable to guarantee continued safety to an acceptable or required level. Furthermore, the SACAA also confirms the suspension of the Certificates of Airworthiness of aircraft maintained by the AMO in terms of Part 21, effective midnight 29 November 2007. As a result of this action the aircraft that constitute the Nationwide air fleet will not be permitted to undertake any further flights until their airworthiness status has been verified. The SACAA would like to assure the public that the above decision was reached after the SACAA conducted a rigorous audit of the AMO in an effort to confirm its compliance with applicable regulations. The AMO was unable to satisfy the Authority of its capability to continue maintaining the aircraft to a standard commensurate with the requirement of the Civil Aviation Regulations (CARs). The regulations require that the AMO maintain the aircraft in accordance with the manufacturers’ requirements and any other requirement imposed by the South African Regulations which would be consistent with International Best Practice. The decision was taken by SACAA in the interest of continued aviation safety in the country. Whilst this will result in an inconvenience to passengers, and this is very much regretted, our view is that safety cannot be compromised. - ends - |
Apparently about 10-15 years ago, after a spate of engine separations on B737-200's, the bolts were changed by Boeing to a slightly revised design.
Nationwide apparently failed to ensure that their aircraft that they operate now had these revised bolts. They are very expensive, and in typical Nationwide fashion, they didn't install them. The CAA did warn them to comply with Boeing AD's, and they didn't listen...Can't say they weren't warned. |
Since conspiracies are being bantered about...any truth in the rumour that the head of NTW AMO jumped ship and is now working for 1 Time? Maybe some sort of comeback on his part.....!!!
And guys as Fluffyfan put it SAA has got better things to do right now than force an airline to be grounded.........well I should hope so anyway! |
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