Meeting called at 16:00 at Nationwide ops today to brief crew as to what the future holds...

Hope All Goes Well!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I hope that all works out in the end. Vernon is a tuff guy and he knows how to fight.
Good luck!!!!!

The writing is on the wall. What's it going to take to get the AMO up to standard? A lot of money. IATA has issued a warning that they will not endorse Nationwide tickets...in other words the company is not a solvent entity. If the international governing body is reluctant to back an airline, what can SACAA do other than scrutinise even further.

Rumour on the flight line from the engineers is that even the oil used in these aircraft have expired...dodgy operation to begin with. This airline should have closed down five years ago.

Drivers have little to worry about...SAA and Comair will have jobs for you guys and girls....drop off a CV.

What a load of bull, where do you people get your info from!

I hope this gets resolved for all concerned. To the Pilots and Cabin Crew...it may seem bleak right now but every cloud has a silver lining. This may be the best thing that ever happened to you. It may force safety standards to be upped or it may force you to look elsewhere for employment where you will be treated with the respect you deserve. I do hope however that another competitor to SAA is not put out of business...that has happened way too many times in the past. Bricknell needs to pump a truckload of money into the maintenance...get it up to scratch...get the planes back in the air...make nice with the travelling public and then start treating his staff with a bit more love!

Four engine jock - VB is NASTY piece of work..and he deserves all that is coming to him now!!!

Years and years of UNDERPAYING crew..dodging and diving and trying to bribe the CAA ( BAC 1-11 oxygen saga) has now finally caught up with this moron!!!

He might know how to fight..but he's NOT going to win this round..

Good luck to all the crew though..as exflygirl says..there are PLENTY of jobs out there:ok:

So how did the meeting turn out?

:sad:

Quis custodiet Ipsos custodes?

Who will guard the guards..?

:ok:

Nationwide
 

Jetnut said "........Drivers have little to worry about...SAA and Comair will have jobs for you guys and girls....drop off a CV."

It is good to know that, in your opinion, getting jobs is no problem. We are too light for SAA and Comair dont take direct entry Captains - so what do you have in mind for us Captains? Any constructive, real answers will be appreciated.

Regards

Well said! :D

Caa Has Double Standards Controlled By Politicians, Nationwide Their Target
 

NATIONWIDE, our beloved airline that became the threat to the SA Government controlled expensive SAA who has a history of manupilating the domestic skies of South-Africa, many has fallen as victems of SAA over years, now Nationwide is their next target, its pur co-incedence that the CAA`s action against Nationwide were launched at the beginning of the festive season, now SAA charge whatever they want for passangers as their competition is grounded.

The CAA is so well controlled by government, they have double standards that is a mirror image of their politicians, facts is remember the very latest incident, the so called Boeing 707-12B, Reg,nr: 9Q-CLK a total wreck of rubbish belonging to Kabila with totally unsafe engines were given freedom of flight without airworthy certificates or logbooks into SA and landed on Lanseria, Mr.Rootman attached this aircraft, reported the unsafe wreck to CAA and requested it be grounded with the CAA, Rootman`s case is still under appeal and yet...CAA, the brilliant so called worried about Nationwide`s safety standards gave 9Q-CLK a total fu$%&*ed-up rubbish aircraft silver wings and permission to fly the aircraft illegally out of Lanseria, and the thieves were given royal treatment who actually stole the aircraft which is still under attachment without CAA doing anything, now this is an example Nationwide.... your`e dealing with more than what is on the table, this is more, your`e too much of opposition and in africa opposition is treated with zero respect, its a one man, one government, only us count thing your`e facing, go invest in Botswana, Swaziland, get your aircraft out in SA.
CAA....we are going to watch you act against all this flying coffins of African Governments coming into SA, and when the FIFA 2010 Soccer World Cup is hosted in SA,...ha ha ha if its hosted FIFA must be crazy out of their minds to allow the 2010 soccer world-cup be hosted in the crime ridden corrupt SA any case.

Get with the programme Sig. NW is a company run by one man. You obviously don't know much about this company do you.

Jetnut, VB may run the company, but there are hundreds of good people that work there that are facing some really hard times. Those people ARE the company!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My thoughts are with the staff of Nationwide. I hope that all works out for you as soon as possible......

I belive that the CAA are totaly corrupt but not in the classic african way that we have all come to love and understand over the past 10 years or so. They are rotten to the core because not one of them meets the minimum standard for CAA personel set down by ICAO with the exception of perhaps the tea lady. If I was VB Id ask to see their CV's, ( as he is entitled to do ) and expose them for what they are; a herd of semi litterate inexperienced incompetents. At best they exhibit a cavalier attitude towards the truth and a total lack of moral fibre and have the credibility of a pack of rabid Jackals. If that is not bad enough they are self regulating with no outside policing other than the FAA who quite frankly dont give a damn about RSA citizens rights. So we have a inexperienced, unqualified, decietful, dishonset, self policing organsiation deciding on matters they know little about. At the heart of aviation is a whole load of "trust" as we cannot check everything everytime we have to trust it is as it is stated. How can we trust the CAA when they are hiding /lying as to the very fact they are unqualified for the work they they get paid to do? They put me in mind of the early days of the nazi party who had a similar cavalier attitude towards the truth and we all know what that led to. My advice to the CAA is "Get your own house in order before it implodes onto your thick skulls."

Suspension upheld
 

Sig, Whilst I agree with you in some aspects, we need to be specific.

The Commissioner, Gawie Bestbier, is good. There is still some good experience in the airworthiness department and for Gawie to support the decision; must mean something.

I also agree with Jetnut, unless you have been on the receiving end from VB, you would not know what he (Jetnut) is talking about.

Would this be relevant?


Pretoria - Just days after the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) temporarily suspended Nationwide airline's licence, a top CAA official has left under a cloud.
Sources told Beeld newspaper the contract of CEO Zakes Myeza was terminated on Monday. The announcement of his firing has been scheduled for Tuesday.
The reason for the move is not known. He had been in the post for about 18 months. CAA spokesperson Phindi Gwebu said: "I will release an announcement from the board on Tuesday."

Whenwe; I have had a run in with VB, and I told him to stick his aircraft where the monkey sticks his nuts.
NW has the best aviators (I use the term Aviators to sperate them from run of the mill pilots AME's and CC ) in RSA on its books, and if it were a military organisation it would be equal to the SAS. There is a good reason for this, they have a strong leader, who sets the standards, and whats more is not affraid to uphold them. If a few slackers, no hopers, and momies boys get upset when they get RTU'd (as they do on any SAS selection course) so be it. Those failures should get over it and get a life, and take note that holding a grudge is a cancer in your soul, it will eat you up before you know it.
DUDLEYDICK; looks like either a rat abandoning a sinking ship or the Jackals are turning on each other!

Ok, ok, ten deep breaths all...

Jetnut, I'm sorry, but this is plain bollocks. Do you think this adds any value here?

For an alternate viewpoint, I'll try to summarise the latest Nwide internal letter explaining progress on this matter:

-VB says sorry, he understands the pressure on all of the crew and their families, working around the clock etc.

-CAA withdraws AMO certificate and Cert of Airworthiness for entire fleet late Thursday night.

-CAA provides lists of concerns late on Friday night. (The first time apparently, in conflict with their claims that Nationwide has known about everything for ages) Concerns relate to admin, labelling of tools, toolbox inspections, equipment labelling, procedures for storage and disposal of spare parts and consumables.

-An action plan as well as evidence of remedial steps was presented to the CAA w.r.t. all the items.

-The CAA did NOT raise any concerns w.r.t. the physical condition and fitness of Nationwide aircraft, the crew training, management, operational procedures etc.

-On Sunday they scrutinised the service history and current doc of the 767, including the docs of the previous owner of the aircraft. VB then mentions how surprised he was to see the CAA quoted in the newspapers as saying 'Nationwide could not even provide the most basic documentation re the 767', something he claims is complete B.S.

-The CAA also decided to announce that Nationwide was going to hire a 767 from KLM (complete bollocks apparently), adding pressure to call centres and causing further confusion amongst passengers.

-VB emphatically denies even coming close to smelling a pirate or untraceable part, ever, claiming to only use known parts from authorised distributors.

-ASATA and Comair are apparently also adding to the B.S. in the air by publicly stating that Nationwide has been ejected from IATA, which is not correct apparently. What has happened, is that Nationwide has been suspended from IATA's Billing and Settlement Programme, which is apparently standard when an airline suspends operations, and is done to protect IATA ticket sales funds. IATA have apparently issued a statement concerning Nationwide, clarifying Nationwides status, and assuring them of their continued support once ops recommence.

-VB also said that the company was financially sound, and capable of weathering the storm.

These things would have to be verified, but I must say that what comes from the CAA, and what comes from Nationwide are two entirely different things. IF VB is talking the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, then the CAA are clearly on a bit of a mission to bust them up. IF so, why? I'm certainly not going to accuse SAA or some other silly assumption, but this whole thing still smacks of 'ulterior motive' to me, from some or other bunch on high.

We have to seperate the 'VB sucks, good riddance, bunch of pirates' aspect from the CAA 'facts and omissions' aspect of this story. To the first camp, just remember, you're wishing for the unemployment of a thousand or so people just prior to the festive season. That's just plain wrong in my book. As I've said before, I've personally witnessed how efficiently the Nationwide crew have to be to get the job done, and I am very respectful.

Apparently their are some interesting points made in todays newspapers regarding both side.

To add, apparently the whole 'bogus parts' thing comes from one bolt (?) that had it's identifying number partly worn off after installation, and the engineer who fitted it had not noted the part number prior to fitment (an error, definitely). The part number was subsequently found on inspection under florescent light, as per Boeings instructions apparently. The CAA introduced the 'pirate/bogus part' term thereafter. Again, I hope the facts I have are correct.

Public interest.......
 

NW is a company offering an air service, used by the fare-paying public.

SACAA is funded by the SA tax-payers (including NW passengers) functioning as an oversight and regulatory body.

In the interests of the fare-paying public and the taxpayers, I am of the opinion that the last audit report for NW's AMO renewal, plus NW's responses to the findings, be made public. After all, it is SAFETY we are concerned with - or is it?

People have a right to know what was found in the audit, and how NW proposes to implement appropriate remedial action.

Accusations, personal attacks and unfounded rumours form the gist of a large number of posts so far on this thread. While I appreciate the rumour aspect, surely the facts of the matter should now be put on the table?

After all, if non-compliances to safety issues are being hidden by NW, or if the CAA is indeed acting on a hidden agenda, we, the taxpayers and fare-paying public, have a right to know these things. Period.

CAA sends fax late thursday night to ground NTW. A fax?? Which CAA in the world closes an airline's ops by fax? Then it does so a day before one of the bussiest days of the year for NTW. Grounds it's entire fleet by pulling the AMO, on claims it hasn't met or done anything to rectify the findings found in the last audit. NTW shows evidence of compliance but still isn't good enough. CAA makes claims that one the bolts used was untraceable, however that bolt was removed and shown to the CAA with a visible partnumber en serial number, CAA said then they're happy with it. CAA then starts to fine comb NTW maintenance, result, found the wrong grease in one the greaseguns. CAA spokewoman makes a statement on TV that she wouldn't fly nationwide as it's not safe, but she would if somebody else does NTW's maintenance oversight.

I don't think SAA or for that fact any other airline or maintenance organization is behind all this. However I do feel that the CAA has a personal vendetta here. Interesting to see that the CAA guy got fired today.......

If indeed there is no fire under the smoke, then why has Nationwide not sought immediate relief from the courts, for example in terms of an urgent interdict to allow them to continue operations.

After all, their very survival as a business is at stake!

What also gets me is that Nationwide were quite content to BS the public about the FOD theory when it was patently obvious that no seagull got sucked into that engine. Even the geniuses at CAA picked up on that and disagreed with that story very early on. But obviously the public will be far more "understanding and forgiving" of the FOD theory and the engine falling off "as designed" than the truth.

Sounds to me as though you have a few too many Zim CAA guys working SACAA!!:}

Great bunch
 

I have flown with a few of the blokes a couple of years ago. They are extremely professional. Some of them even went overseas to fly for international carriers and obtained command on these birds.

Sure VB is not the most pleasant chap in the aviation industry (we who have met him know this first hand), but as was mentioned in a previous post, the people that matter are the staff. The stress on these folks must be unbearable.

The SACAA must have another motive. On ETV last night a SACAA woman was asked directly if she would fly NTW. Her responce was "If they sort out their problems I would fly" (Not her exact words). She then added (Her exact words) "but at the moment, I would not take that risk".

What a :mad: comment is that to make on the news. Does this SACAA woman know all the facts and what are the public going to think of NTW after this woman said this thing.

I hope for the public, and for the staff working for NTW they get airborne quickly.

...and thats my personal problem: Right or wrong, the CAA are taking every opportunity to absolutely kill Nationwide's credibility in the press. Just take a look at their manner of saying things and choice of words - it really seems like one way or another, they're trying to take them down.

Shrike, I agree, but why and who is behind this. Could only be political, or is it the mentality that is going downhill in this country at the moment by government institutions.

Some more, from the quote re the CAA boss leaving:
Not that any of this is going to be widespread knowledge amongst the general public after the CAA have already got their knife in.

It just goes to show how unprofessional the SACAA actually is!

They should remain silent until an investigation has concluded (here in Australia CASA would say "no comment" until an investigation has been completed).

By making "stupid" comments they are the ones that are opening "cans of worms" making people think that there maybe a few "hidden agendas" going on.

I say get Nationwide back in the air to secure the jobs of the fine folk at Lanseria and provide some competition against that "government owned" airline.
'
:ok:

There is competition from 1Time, Comair and Kulula. Strange how every thread manages to bash SAA, no matter what.............get a life, get with the thread.

Anyone know what the actual qualifications of these CAA inspectors are???

Anyone know what the actual qualifications of these CAA inspectors are???

Your guess is as good as mine, some of these idiots worked for CE before.

I've recently gone into real estate and for all those who believe the contradictions coming from the CAA I have a rather tall iron structure in France and a beautiful white mansion on the other side of the pond that I have exclusivity to sell, both at a great bargain.

mactheknifeAnyone know what the actual qualifications of these CAA inspectors are???
They have nothing and thats the problem inexperienced unqualified = liars = taking tax payers money under false pretences. Close em down and hand it over to tha FAA.

Media blackout
 

Ive cross posted this cos it seems relevent to this thread - hope thats OK guys :)
This was just up on The Times -
It all seems irrelevant now with all the news and un-news up to this point. This is a kangaroo court if ever Ive seen one - trial by media and turkeys.
Hasn't anyone heard of "no comment" - saves a lot of trouble
Umm - confusion - what confusion :ugh:
------------------------------------------

Media blackout on Nationwide Sapa Published dec 04, 2007
The South African Civil Aviation Authority and Nationwide Airlines have agreed to halt communication with the media over the grounding of the carrier.
They would no longer make independent statements to the press, but would speak jointly on the process should the need arise, the CAA and Nationwide said today.
This was "to avoid causing confusion", said CAA spokeswoman Phindiwe Gwebu.

they'll make joint comments from now on cause when this whole thing peters out you can be sure Vern and a team of rottweilers in suits will go after SACAA with teeth bared. For everything VB is, if it's because of CAA's incompetence and arrogance I for one hope he bites a chunk out of their asses.

Totally agree. CAA qualifications = member of the ruling party. Must have at least grade 8 and been part of the struggle.:E

Chap having read your posts with much interest,I can't believe what complete and utter rubbish would come out of one mouth in such a short period of time! SAS.. Incredible!:ugh: And by the way no tax payers money goes toward the CAA....who if you cared to enquire is now a private entity! So be it!
And quite frankly with the tone and attitude of your posts in general I'm not surprised you had a run in with VB.....would have told you too, to take your monkey nuts and shove them!
And by the way if there are any discrepancies on NTW's behalf, the FAA, UK CAA and any other Aviation authority around the world would have done the same thing! Lets wait and see the outcome before we judge and point fingers even though at this stage we feel it is unjust as to what occurred recently.
Remember Valujet many years ago?......the same issues spring to mind here. Lets hope not but lets wait and see.........for the better!
To all the NTW guys.....good luck and hopefully we will see you in the skies very soon!

Hey Madherb, I am not "bashing" SAA (they seem to be doing a great job of it themselves by the look of some of the posts on this website).

Actually I can't complain about SAA (I recently flew from Perth to Jo-Burg and on to Lagos and back and was very, very happy with the level of service they provided).

Shame that the flight attendants couldn't stop "bashing" their employer though.

:D

Could it be that seniority of any person in CAA management is directly proportional to the seniority of membership in the ruling party....

Just heard from Ops the idiots from the CAA released PBI. That's at least one. Hopefully the rest will follow soon.