Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > African Aviation
Reload this Page >

British Airways Incident at Johannesburg

African Aviation Regional issues that affect the numerous pilots who work in this area of the world.

British Airways Incident at Johannesburg

Old 20th Jan 2014, 10:43
  #521 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: South Africa
Posts: 10
As a matter of interest, what happens to the flight crew in a situation like this - while the investigation continues? Do they get suspended? Even if the investigation takes months / years? Do they keep up with simulator training to stay sharp?
Captain_Snor is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2014, 14:08
  #522 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Western USA
Posts: 556

"Do they keep up with simulator training to stay sharp?"

Under the circumstances, that's pretty funny.
Desert185 is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2014, 14:17
  #523 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 1,625
And they say Yanks dont do irony!
Tom the Tenor is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2014, 23:02
  #524 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Your nearest Marriott
Posts: 1,127
Anyone who expects a transparent, unbiased report is sadly mislead by thinking they are dealing with first world people. The govt has lots to cover up for on this one.

The airport will be found perfect, all lights functioning and ON at the time, and the crew will be at fault (even if the findings show mitigating factors otherwise).

Case closed.

You cannot trust anything coming out of SA anymore. Not a single word.
I.R.PIRATE is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2014, 04:37
  #525 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 17
Mr Pirate, oh dear, your petticoat is showing....
Gigajoules is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2014, 07:06
  #526 (permalink)  
Pegase Driver
Join Date: May 1997
Location: Europe
Age: 70
Posts: 2,843
Mr Pirate, your statements are based on what experience ?

I know how ATNS works and even more in this case, involving a BAW 747, I bet you the final report will be extremely factual . I may content addemdums of disagreement from other parties , but the investigation work will be correct. Mark my words.
ATC Watcher is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2014, 07:34
  #527 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 82
Question Customs duty due?

A bit OT...
If the aircraft is scrapped in Johannesburg it is finally imported to South Africa. Would BA to have the obligation to pay customs duty and/or VAT, based on the value the aircraft depicted at the time it was flown into the Country?
I just remember a similar case. We crashed a car in Italy and the remains were for the scarpyard only. Italian officials wanted me to pay the customs duty based on the value when the car was "imported". We decided to bring the wreck home.
Takeoff53 is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2014, 07:50
  #528 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: In transit
Age: 67
Posts: 3,056
Sadly I have to agree with I R Pirate. Whilst there are certain government bodies which are less mired in corruption than others, and it would be nice to think that the CAA would be one of them, I doubt it. ACSA will also come in for some stick and have to defend their interests.

A glance at the names of the top people in both organisations and their political connections may give a hint as to their corruptibility indices.

I am not saying the BA crew are blameless - I don't know, but I am sure that the report will try to pass blame away from the authorities.

The Thunder City report on ZU-BEX is relevant too.
Capetonian is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2014, 11:23
  #529 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: ZA
Age: 57
Posts: 12
Mr Pirate, your statements are based on what experience ?
Perhaps the CAA press release issued the same night as the incident saying the pilots took the wrong taxiway.

Yes, it is factually correct, but it also implies that all the blame lies with the crew and that there were no mitigating factors.

There is also the fact that most senior officials in this country, from the top elected office bearers all the way through to the lowest echelons of the civil service, have been implicated in corruption charges at some time or other.

Pirate and Capetonian are right, I'm afraid. Too many vested interests to allow mere facts to get in the way.

Last edited by Not-a_Pilot; 21st Jan 2014 at 12:41.
Not-a_Pilot is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2014, 13:03
  #530 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Shenzhen China
Posts: 22
If we look at the scenario that a tail of another 747 or a Citation instead of the building in clear conditions at any airport was holding at the edge of a taxiway and the collision took place would there be any reason to blame the airport or taxiway lighting?
Considering they hit a lamp post and just missed the fence before hitting the building.
There was another thread some ware where a 787 was asked to taxi and hold over another aircraft but lucky they where looking out the window and said no.
JamesGBC is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2014, 19:22
  #531 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Essex, SE England!
Posts: 94
^@ JamesGBC

The 787 incident was at Orlando Sanford involving a Thomson 787 where the crew were told to taxi despite an aircraft being in the way.

The ATC is on YouTube if searched for & it's well worth a listen!

Matty J is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2014, 02:23
  #532 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 452
Taxy time

I guess there are very few pilots who haven't at one time or another taxied not in accordance with their taxy instructions, you see it a lot in the real world and not just in LVP's either, in most circumstances its a non event, just red faces at worst.

I have never been to Jo Burg, nor likely too unless my company fit a load of drop tanks!! but these guys made a mistake, they didn't set out to make one, but it happened and we learn best from trying to understand why and how best to prevent it happening again.

There will of course be a full BA investigation and some lessons to learn, but barring intentional gross misconduct (very unlikely) then hopefully they can continue their careers with BA, but lessons for all of us, what ever we fly

Good luck
LNIDA is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2014, 11:09
  #533 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 190
Yes, there but for the grace of god and all that! I know one of those involved and would hope that they can continue in BA, cos once you have ticked the, "any accidents or incidents" box on an application form it's pretty much game over.
nitefiter is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2014, 19:50
  #534 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: europe
Age: 63
Posts: 641
I would hire them, if only for the reason that they certainly would not do it again!
Edited to add that I don't have a vacancy right at this moment.
deefer dog is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2014, 07:03
  #535 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: hong kong
Posts: 175
If you're familiar with Jo berg then it's difficult to get from Int Pax Term to Taxiway M, if you're not familiar then surely you would have the charts out? 4 flight crew in the cockpit 4 pairs of eyes looking out no one reading a paper or chatting/texting on the phone. The truth is out there.
The FUB is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2014, 07:09
  #536 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,044
4 flight crew in the cockpit 4 pairs of eyes looking out .... The truth is out there.
It may well be, but certainly not in your post
NigelOnDraft is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2014, 09:16
  #537 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 415
Final loadsheet

Do BA still do the 'final loadsheet via ACARS during taxi' thing? I always thought that there was enough essential business going on during the taxi phase without this too. There's no good reason why, in 2014, final figures couldn't be provided before shutting the doors. If indeed they don't do it like that already.
WHYEYEMAN is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2014, 01:12
  #538 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: hong kong
Posts: 175
Nigelondraft, it is a rumour network and I seem to a touched an open nerve with you, one wonders why.
The FUB is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2014, 01:40
  #539 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Camp X-Ray
Posts: 2,135
Well you got it wrong with 'four flight crew in the cockpit' so why should any of the rest of your post be taken seriously?
Hand Solo is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2014, 07:25
  #540 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home
Posts: 938

For your information A B747-400 is operated by a 2 crew flight deck. The BA operation carries an extra crew member for in flight relief due to the Duty Period Jnb-Lhr, and may not have been in the flight deck at the time.
The BA 744 SOPs do not include another crew member in any operating drills, although any extra crew members are obviously useful as a extra pair of eyes when available.
cessnapete is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.