I just read that Goma Airport has been
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Don't take CNN at face value...
Mr. Spike, I don't think anyone is trolling you. What you are told by CNN might be very different from African reality. Well, I think that is what some people here are trying to make you understand!
There is not often much difference between "rebels" and "government troops." Both can simply be predatory rabble with guns, a threat to the peasantry who are exploited by all. Might you be thinking that one side represents law and order? If so, then, no, you probably haven't spent any time in Africa.
There is not often much difference between "rebels" and "government troops." Both can simply be predatory rabble with guns, a threat to the peasantry who are exploited by all. Might you be thinking that one side represents law and order? If so, then, no, you probably haven't spent any time in Africa.
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Ten years chuks and I don’t take any kind of journalist/media at face value. However these explinations have absolutly nothing to do with any of my comments. I don’t give a damn about the soldiers from either side, but I have seen enough African slaughter to have sympathy for those under threat. That is pointedly the core of my questioning. I am trying to find out what is happening to the people in Goma.
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I did a charter flight into Elizabethville (Lubumbashi) with a Piper Astec back in 1966. Just down the road from Goma. I was a very worried person then with all those soldiers around.
Almost 50 years later, nothing has really changed, has it?
All in the name of "Uhuru"
Almost 50 years later, nothing has really changed, has it?
All in the name of "Uhuru"
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DRC soldiers/police get peanuts as salary if they are lucky - the more usual case money has disappeared in someones else pocket. Unsurprisingly that eats the motivation of standing in front of bullets M23 (or whatever the opportunistic militia this time is called). Stupid western media is busy inventing political reasons for the militia, when probably the only agenda is to make the leaders of movement rich.
The great tragedy is: The thing UN is so worried about, Rwanda taking over east congo - would probably be the best thing happened to the area ever. A capital under 100 miles away could make more sense than capital over 1000 miles away behind a roadless jungle...
But no, clearly it's more important to keep colonial borders.
The great tragedy is: The thing UN is so worried about, Rwanda taking over east congo - would probably be the best thing happened to the area ever. A capital under 100 miles away could make more sense than capital over 1000 miles away behind a roadless jungle...
But no, clearly it's more important to keep colonial borders.
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That's the part about the UN that worries me. When independence came to Indonesia they got Irian Jaya, because it had been part of the Dutch East Indies. That way, one set of colonial masters was simply replaced with another set, arguably worse than the previous one!
In some cases, the UN appears to be worse than useless, such as how Unesco fell into line behind that vile little toe-rag Arafat. Brrr!
Here at school, among a crowd of starry-eyed idealists, I often feel like a visitor from some strange planet. The professor of African Politics asked me over lunch about "the future of Nigeria," when, after all of two seconds to think, I blurted out that "they are f@cked!"
"What? What did you just say?!"
"Uhh, doomed, they are doomed!" (The liberal mind-set at work: she heard me just fine. I don't mumble. But, what I said, no, no, no... one cannot say that about Nigeria; it just has to have a bright future, in the face of all the very obvious facts about a teeming population living hand-to-mouth off their oil.)
Then she told me about a conference in a wonderful new capital, Abuja, that she attended, how it was chock-full of young people with tremendous ability and promise, and how if Africa goes then we go too, and all that sort of hooey.
I told her that I was counting on the Mediterranean and the Atlantic to help with that one. She never bothered to speak to me again. I have no idea why.
Here, Mr. Spike, you are being twitted about ignorance of the situation behind the headlines, one that is very different from what you may think it is. Even if you adjust by 50% from what CNN is saying, that still leaves you laughably far from the truth of so much of Africa. I am sure that you mean well, but Africa is very different from what you seem to think it is.
In some cases, the UN appears to be worse than useless, such as how Unesco fell into line behind that vile little toe-rag Arafat. Brrr!
Here at school, among a crowd of starry-eyed idealists, I often feel like a visitor from some strange planet. The professor of African Politics asked me over lunch about "the future of Nigeria," when, after all of two seconds to think, I blurted out that "they are f@cked!"
"What? What did you just say?!"
"Uhh, doomed, they are doomed!" (The liberal mind-set at work: she heard me just fine. I don't mumble. But, what I said, no, no, no... one cannot say that about Nigeria; it just has to have a bright future, in the face of all the very obvious facts about a teeming population living hand-to-mouth off their oil.)
Then she told me about a conference in a wonderful new capital, Abuja, that she attended, how it was chock-full of young people with tremendous ability and promise, and how if Africa goes then we go too, and all that sort of hooey.
I told her that I was counting on the Mediterranean and the Atlantic to help with that one. She never bothered to speak to me again. I have no idea why.
Here, Mr. Spike, you are being twitted about ignorance of the situation behind the headlines, one that is very different from what you may think it is. Even if you adjust by 50% from what CNN is saying, that still leaves you laughably far from the truth of so much of Africa. I am sure that you mean well, but Africa is very different from what you seem to think it is.
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Goma
Temp - look, buddy, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you weren't accusing me of being a troll. And I really hope you weren't accusing Mobutu of being a troll, as he is one of the very few on this site who know what he's talking about ref: DRC.
If you are interested, I propose you read this:
In Rebel Country - By James Verini | Foreign Policy
Which is a pretty good eye-witness account of the situation on the ground; and re-read Mobutu's first post in this thread, which cuts straight to the chase. It's about minerals and the control of mining and trading. That's all.
CNN? CNN International (which is about 60% reliable?) or CNN domestic, which is probably 10% or less reliable?
Anyway, enough on this subject. Ten years in Africa? Maybe ten years in a camp compound - maybe Loki? Hanging out at the bar drinking Tusker with aid workers and pilots, and spooks and hacks and the rest? There are lot of different Africas out here, bud, and the bar at Trackmark or 748 or Kate's is not always the best place to see them from.
Anyway kwaheri sana, rafiki.
If you are interested, I propose you read this:
In Rebel Country - By James Verini | Foreign Policy
Which is a pretty good eye-witness account of the situation on the ground; and re-read Mobutu's first post in this thread, which cuts straight to the chase. It's about minerals and the control of mining and trading. That's all.
CNN? CNN International (which is about 60% reliable?) or CNN domestic, which is probably 10% or less reliable?
Anyway, enough on this subject. Ten years in Africa? Maybe ten years in a camp compound - maybe Loki? Hanging out at the bar drinking Tusker with aid workers and pilots, and spooks and hacks and the rest? There are lot of different Africas out here, bud, and the bar at Trackmark or 748 or Kate's is not always the best place to see them from.
Anyway kwaheri sana, rafiki.
Last edited by rcsa; 30th Nov 2012 at 12:24.
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The very reason why I have been asking is because I don’t believe CNN. I think you can read that much into my questions. Best I have is some VOA dude’s social media posts, which is very incomplete.
I can’t believe Mobotu is going to lay down and cry because I called him/her a troll. It came from the Monusco comment. Never believed Monusco had anything to do with relief flights. I have no confusion with govt./rebels and Monusco. I know the fighting is over raw minerals harvested by virtual slave labor. The assumption error was Mobotu’s, not mine. I don’t need the lecture.
However, I did have a senior moment. My apologies Mobotu.
rcsa, you gave me the best information and I thank you for it. There is a lot of truth in what you say, but not the whole truth. I have more African experiences than my years in Loki. Though I was there years before there was ever a South African there, because there was a Kenyan embargo against apartheid. Indeed I welcomed the first and he wasn’t even in Aviation, (though he pretended to be), then later a few that were. I was even there before Bob McCarthy was running the UN camp which was little more than a few tents at the time. In fact the only African operator was Kenyan “Safari Air” for excess carriage from NBO only. Overtime I had been paid by four operators out of Loki, all “expat” but one was African….South African.
I can’t believe Mobotu is going to lay down and cry because I called him/her a troll. It came from the Monusco comment. Never believed Monusco had anything to do with relief flights. I have no confusion with govt./rebels and Monusco. I know the fighting is over raw minerals harvested by virtual slave labor. The assumption error was Mobotu’s, not mine. I don’t need the lecture.
However, I did have a senior moment. My apologies Mobotu.
rcsa, you gave me the best information and I thank you for it. There is a lot of truth in what you say, but not the whole truth. I have more African experiences than my years in Loki. Though I was there years before there was ever a South African there, because there was a Kenyan embargo against apartheid. Indeed I welcomed the first and he wasn’t even in Aviation, (though he pretended to be), then later a few that were. I was even there before Bob McCarthy was running the UN camp which was little more than a few tents at the time. In fact the only African operator was Kenyan “Safari Air” for excess carriage from NBO only. Overtime I had been paid by four operators out of Loki, all “expat” but one was African….South African.
Last edited by Temp Spike; 30th Nov 2012 at 16:41.
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On the ground in Goma....
Apology accepted Temp (Actually my Troll was more offended than I was) - Thanks rcsa for your vote of confidence and chuks for making me laugh out loud!
I have flown for the UN, UNHCR, ICRC, WFP.....and some others that require several shots of Whisky to remember and my opinions are based on these experiences.
I was in Kivu during the crisis and in contact with friends and colegues on the ground in Goma and the situation is not good for the local population.
The main reason the population want to leave Goma by foot if they have to is the shortage of food and inflated prices for basic items.
Coupled to that most of the work in Goma centers around NGO's or minerals trading to which both have been abandoned since the arrival of the M23 rebels.
Banks are closed as well so even if you have money in your account you cannot gain access to it to draw on the savings you have to feed your family.
Also without the Police to "Protect" the local population the M23 rebels are free to go door to door mostly at night taking whatever they wish including women and young girls.
If you have money you can cross into Gisenyi(Rwanda) and stay there else like the majority of Goma's residents you can neither flee south/west towards Bukavu nor north to where the fighting began in the first place.
keitaidenwa - the ONLY reason the UN are worried about Rwanda taking control of the Kivu is DRC's president would give them 48 hours to LEAVE the country and bring an end to their 10 year junket
I have flown for the UN, UNHCR, ICRC, WFP.....and some others that require several shots of Whisky to remember and my opinions are based on these experiences.
I was in Kivu during the crisis and in contact with friends and colegues on the ground in Goma and the situation is not good for the local population.
The main reason the population want to leave Goma by foot if they have to is the shortage of food and inflated prices for basic items.
Coupled to that most of the work in Goma centers around NGO's or minerals trading to which both have been abandoned since the arrival of the M23 rebels.
Banks are closed as well so even if you have money in your account you cannot gain access to it to draw on the savings you have to feed your family.
Also without the Police to "Protect" the local population the M23 rebels are free to go door to door mostly at night taking whatever they wish including women and young girls.
If you have money you can cross into Gisenyi(Rwanda) and stay there else like the majority of Goma's residents you can neither flee south/west towards Bukavu nor north to where the fighting began in the first place.
keitaidenwa - the ONLY reason the UN are worried about Rwanda taking control of the Kivu is DRC's president would give them 48 hours to LEAVE the country and bring an end to their 10 year junket
Last edited by Mobotu; 2nd Dec 2012 at 17:04. Reason: The Troll wanted it's 2 cents worth....
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Thank You Mobotu.
M23 is not getting very good press here now. Looks like another violent mess brewing. I’m curious to know how extensive the relief NGOs are set up in the area.
M23 is not getting very good press here now. Looks like another violent mess brewing. I’m curious to know how extensive the relief NGOs are set up in the area.
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I watch/read Fox News and Al-Jazeera the most. Al-Jazeera is the most balanced news outlet that I know of. Fox News is usually interesting and often hilarious.
I heard that the authorities didn't want the Goma runway rebuilt/repaired, because then much larger aircraft could coming in carrying many more troops/guns...and they wanted to keep outside military ops away from the area.
I heard that the authorities didn't want the Goma runway rebuilt/repaired, because then much larger aircraft could coming in carrying many more troops/guns...and they wanted to keep outside military ops away from the area.
