Ethiopian Airlines?!?!?
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Ethiopian Airlines?!?!?
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They should be more welcoming
In various places, including pprune, I've read that their pilots don't particularly like pilots from other African nations. Given the fact of Ethiopia's historical claims to leadership of African unity and the mistake of their being located on the African continent, they could do with embrace of Africans of whatever calling. Afteral, Ethiopian pilots are abandoning ET for foreign carriers. It should occur to them that they could easily meet some of their own medicine out there. What's more, there were quite a few insinuations of racism in Addis against the Lebanese authorities over the Beirut B737 crash. It was convenient at that time to ignore misgivings about racism in ET recruitment 
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@dash200
we must not confuse institutional problem of ET as problem of Ethiopian. its true, ET has so many deep rooted problems and it has been very inhospitable place for expats mainly due to the ex-military ego driven pilots. Ethiopians r very friendly people with proven hospitality to any stranger. i m amazed by what u called racism toward Lebanese officials. it was ET offcials who gave the Lebanese hard time during their stay in addis because the investigation was increasingly becoming clear that ET409 accident was pilot error. so once again, don't mix up the behavior of ET with Ethiopians. i m speechless to comment on what u said regarding Ethiopians claiming to leaders of African and all that junk . it clearly shows u ve biased mind or very NARROW and limited knowledge of history.
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They should be more welcoming
dash200
I am not saying to trigger a racial debate, but I remember back in the EAA days Ethiopian pilots getting into fights with East African Airways "African" Pilots because of this superiority complex. The Ethiopian pilots not liking other African pilots has been so since time immemorial. They always felt and said that they were not Africans (perhaps meaning "black people", yet Ethiopia is a country very much north of East Africa, thus in African Continent. There are also black Ethiopians and those that of mixed race. It is also general knowledge nationality goes with whatever continent you come from. I believe they thought they were special, but when they travel or live in European or North America, that is when the reality hit them that they are regarded as black people.
I am not saying to trigger a racial debate, but I remember back in the EAA days Ethiopian pilots getting into fights with East African Airways "African" Pilots because of this superiority complex. The Ethiopian pilots not liking other African pilots has been so since time immemorial. They always felt and said that they were not Africans (perhaps meaning "black people", yet Ethiopia is a country very much north of East Africa, thus in African Continent. There are also black Ethiopians and those that of mixed race. It is also general knowledge nationality goes with whatever continent you come from. I believe they thought they were special, but when they travel or live in European or North America, that is when the reality hit them that they are regarded as black people.
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Number One Carrier in Africa?
Keep in mind that F/Os on the B 777 fly 130 hours a month because Management tells them one third of flying time is Crew Rest, accident in Beirut due to Pilot Error and Fatigue. Expats routinely flying over 100 hours a month and 32 hours in 7 days. New F/O's who can not land the airplane. Totally antiquated training system. Pilots landing with less than minimum fuel in Europe.
Good Job Number One Carrier in Africa. Accident waiting to happen.
Good Job Number One Carrier in Africa. Accident waiting to happen.
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Ethiopian demistified !!!
africaflyer, would you believe I still thought much of their pilot training? So, what happened to the vaunted professionalism and halo of excellence? It's all gone with the wind, or should we say, cyclone. You begin to wonder if it wasn't all gas in the first place
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Ethiopian Training
They are stuck in B 707 days,when the Captain as King and the rest of the crew were slaves.The Sop's are outdated and most Captains do not adhere by them. Basic IFR procedures are unknown to them. Stabilized approaches are a new concept. Technical understanding of the airplane is non existing. Do I need to say more? See the accident report from Beirut.
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@flyawaybird
I used to live in Addis Ababa, years ago. Ethiopians are lovely people, but are also very proud of their historical inheritance, never been colonised, own language and alphabet, and so on.
They are also (at least the highland, semitic ethnic groups - Amhara and Tigreans) - occasionally racist towards the rest of the continent - but, as far as the educated among them are concerned, always in good spirit.
I recall a conversation I overheard one evening at the bar at the Hilton. One ETH captain was talking to a British expat over a few Harar beers, and after a while he proceeded to enlighten the latter on a few realities:
'You see, we Ethiopians, we really are the white people of the world. In Asia they all are Brown or Yellow, while elsewhere in Africa - those Bantu countries, well, they are really Black, you know'
Doubtful, the Britisher asked:
'Err...what about us then?'
'Oh. You people are Pink'.
They are also (at least the highland, semitic ethnic groups - Amhara and Tigreans) - occasionally racist towards the rest of the continent - but, as far as the educated among them are concerned, always in good spirit.
I recall a conversation I overheard one evening at the bar at the Hilton. One ETH captain was talking to a British expat over a few Harar beers, and after a while he proceeded to enlighten the latter on a few realities:
'You see, we Ethiopians, we really are the white people of the world. In Asia they all are Brown or Yellow, while elsewhere in Africa - those Bantu countries, well, they are really Black, you know'
Doubtful, the Britisher asked:
'Err...what about us then?'
'Oh. You people are Pink'.
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this is quite racist talk ..
you don't just go assuming things like that .. very ignorant and racism talk!
but on the real, tell me what other African airline has accomplished as much? Given the broke status of a country, it's not like we paid to be awarded the 'Best' .. we earned it!
Event if we don't have the advancement that western countries do, we have made it this far and still striving to get better..
And come on .. those excuses you are giving out are just lame .. like any other big airline flying to over 60 destinations .. we have regular pre flight maintenance staff checking on the details .. and we under go audits like any other line .. so we clearly wouldn't fly when out of gas .. Hate on Ethiopians if you have general complex issues, you can't come out of nowhere and decide to hate on a company .. what u think we just fly without following rules and regulations?
And yes, we do happen to have a different kind of pride in our people, as stated, for being one of the only two African countries that were never colonized. You can't possibly hate on that.
That has nothing to do with superiority complex, simple pride and holding heads up 
but on the real, tell me what other African airline has accomplished as much? Given the broke status of a country, it's not like we paid to be awarded the 'Best' .. we earned it!
Event if we don't have the advancement that western countries do, we have made it this far and still striving to get better..
And come on .. those excuses you are giving out are just lame .. like any other big airline flying to over 60 destinations .. we have regular pre flight maintenance staff checking on the details .. and we under go audits like any other line .. so we clearly wouldn't fly when out of gas .. Hate on Ethiopians if you have general complex issues, you can't come out of nowhere and decide to hate on a company .. what u think we just fly without following rules and regulations?
And yes, we do happen to have a different kind of pride in our people, as stated, for being one of the only two African countries that were never colonized. You can't possibly hate on that.
That has nothing to do with superiority complex, simple pride and holding heads up
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Employee unrest at ET
Just got this e-mail from ET employees in cas anybody is interested.
United employees against the current management group
This is a group formed in association with cockpit crew members, cabin crew members, and some non-flying employees. Our demands are very simple, we do not ask for more money or more promotion. This is a question of fairness and honesty that the management fails to follow. We are very angry with the management’s actions. It is time that they start listening to us and stop fooling us.
Our demands are listed below.
1. Demand from captains and first officers
a) We want a working collective agreement; the management is changing our payment method as it pleases it. Why is it taking so much to come up with a new collective agreement?
b) We want to be well respected by the management team. We believe our input is vital for the survival of the airline and most of us are matured enough to be treated like fools by the airline. Stop fooling us and start respecting us. We are in charge of the aircraft when we fly, not the manager who is seating in his office. We want full authority and respect.
c) We have observed that station agents have more power over us this has to stop; we want to be able to upgrade any one who is dear to us. Most of the time we upgrade cabin crew or crew family members. So, what is the harm, the seat is perishable why do you make a big deal out of this. We want all captains, their family members and first officers to be entitled (In written form) for a cloud nine class seat whenever we travel on our free thickets i.e. there is an available cloud nine class seat.
d) We want promotion to be on the basis of seniority; seniority has been the guideline for promotion ever since the airline has started, however the current flight operations team has started messing that up by promoting those who are very dear to them and passing those who are not in good terms with them and using promotion as a weapon for submission. This is an unethical managerial method that has started to corrupt our system. We want that to be abolished immediately and start promoting those captains and first officers which have been left behind.
e) We want the current flight operations team to be replaced by new ones who are better fit to lead such a work force. We want to be lead by managers who do not mix business with pleasure, give the chance for others to lead. Major cost of this airline comes from expatriate salary had the flight operations team been planning ahead for the airlines expansion they would have trained many national captains and first officers. However, the flight operations team has been busy with fighting our association and anyone who stands against them that they forget to focus on the issues that mattered most. This is poor management and due to their failure we are forced to pay for the situation the airline is in now.
2. Demand from supervisors
a) All of us have been working and toiling for the success of the airline however, the airline has not been working in favor of us. We have been appointed to fly Q400 and 737 flights recently, most of us are old and have devoted most of our energy for the airline. Therefore, we want the acting supervisors to fly those flights and assign us to fly the flights with more layovers. The acting supervisors agree with this idea as they will know that they follow our footsteps when they reach our age.
b) Some lead cabin crew members are overriding our authority we want our authority to be respected we are being treated as insignificant; change that.
3. Demand from all crew members
a) We want Lead cabin crew Meretework who has been serving in the cabin crew association to be returned back to her job immediately. P.s. Merete or other association members are not our group members and they will be surprised when they read this email.
b) We want those cabin crew members who are flying round trip flights because they did not fly a flight that is above their duty hour to be returned back to normal schedule immediately. Why are duty time limitations set if they are not to be respected. The management should have stood by crew member’s side, not punish them. They did nothing wrong they just acted according to the law. Scheduling should have one set of crew ready as standby every day. Why are cabin crew being punished for the failure of crew scheduling.
c) We are very angry to contribute 1$ from our per dime per hour. This is too much for us since some of us save the money we are given for food and run our households. Why are we the one who are contributing a lot? If the airline is in trouble as you say it is then let’s talk about taking 10% from our salary. The allowance you give us is for food most of us eat our food with it or save it. Either way we do not want to give our allowance for the airline. The basic point with allowance is that we spend it for food, tip and laundry you should not take money from food. Do you want us not to eat or not to pay for porters or come to flights with dirty clothes?
Methods to be used for the strike
1. We will not keep your schedules; most flights will arrive with a delay which will be very costly to you. We will consume extra fuel by using APU, reveres power, not using direct routes, following strict SID and STARs and etc.
2. We will drive all your customers away by telling everyone we know that the airline is unsafe. We have hacked into your shebamiles email address we will start sending them news that is unfavorable to this airline.
3. We have talked to some of your competitors that are very happy for the failure of the airline and they are willing to surface negative advertisement about this airline
4. We will communicate with the staralince group and reveal things you don’t want them to know
5. We will tip IOSA and SAFA organizations your unsafe operations
6. We will not follow your cost saving initiatives, we will start dumping the most expensive drinks and every flight will be very expensive for you. We know that you cannot fire every one and every one will do it. We will break all the headsets all the glasses and china wear until all of it will be gone and the airline has to buy new ones.
7. We will use poor customer handling methods.
8. Each of us will be united everything will be run through email and face book accounts and you can try to find this group but you will not. We have taken every precaution not to be found.
The cyber revolution that has brought the fall of president Muberk and president Gadafi has begun in Ethiopian airlines. Our demands are very few take us very seriously we are not bluffing. This revolution is like a forest fire you don’t know where the fire starts but the fire will be everywhere.
Dear employees lets stand together and fight this unjust management team. The airline needs to be run by matured and educated people not by political appointed managers who are dragging us down. Please create a fake gmail address and face book account we can chat we can skype and we can email each other. If the management does not act according to our demand we will communicate and start our strike. Do not trust anybody don’t talk anything we will just act we will not talk. And we shall win.
Dear management team if the airline is in a loss then it’s your failure. As far as we are concerned we have been working so hard. This means you have not been working so hard. All of you have been very busy fighting with individuals, consumed with calculating benefits of cockpit and cabin crew member, or calculating ways how to reduce our payments. You should have been busy with income generating operations. The management is full of negative attitude towards the employees, therefore, you failed. Step down and give the chance for others who are intellectuals and experienced to lead.
Ato Tewelde when you said that the airline needs to save 1billion birr is it so that you commission as a board member does not decrease? If the airline is in trouble show us some financial statements and we can trust you, otherwise we believe it’s for your personal commission that you are forcing us to contribute this money. Shame on you.
The group will give the management one month advance to fulfill our demands as of today. If we do not see any change in one month time then we will initiate the strike using the method above and you will see how powerful united employees are.
Sincerely yours.
United employees against the current management group
This is a group formed in association with cockpit crew members, cabin crew members, and some non-flying employees. Our demands are very simple, we do not ask for more money or more promotion. This is a question of fairness and honesty that the management fails to follow. We are very angry with the management’s actions. It is time that they start listening to us and stop fooling us.
Our demands are listed below.
1. Demand from captains and first officers
a) We want a working collective agreement; the management is changing our payment method as it pleases it. Why is it taking so much to come up with a new collective agreement?
b) We want to be well respected by the management team. We believe our input is vital for the survival of the airline and most of us are matured enough to be treated like fools by the airline. Stop fooling us and start respecting us. We are in charge of the aircraft when we fly, not the manager who is seating in his office. We want full authority and respect.
c) We have observed that station agents have more power over us this has to stop; we want to be able to upgrade any one who is dear to us. Most of the time we upgrade cabin crew or crew family members. So, what is the harm, the seat is perishable why do you make a big deal out of this. We want all captains, their family members and first officers to be entitled (In written form) for a cloud nine class seat whenever we travel on our free thickets i.e. there is an available cloud nine class seat.
d) We want promotion to be on the basis of seniority; seniority has been the guideline for promotion ever since the airline has started, however the current flight operations team has started messing that up by promoting those who are very dear to them and passing those who are not in good terms with them and using promotion as a weapon for submission. This is an unethical managerial method that has started to corrupt our system. We want that to be abolished immediately and start promoting those captains and first officers which have been left behind.
e) We want the current flight operations team to be replaced by new ones who are better fit to lead such a work force. We want to be lead by managers who do not mix business with pleasure, give the chance for others to lead. Major cost of this airline comes from expatriate salary had the flight operations team been planning ahead for the airlines expansion they would have trained many national captains and first officers. However, the flight operations team has been busy with fighting our association and anyone who stands against them that they forget to focus on the issues that mattered most. This is poor management and due to their failure we are forced to pay for the situation the airline is in now.
2. Demand from supervisors
a) All of us have been working and toiling for the success of the airline however, the airline has not been working in favor of us. We have been appointed to fly Q400 and 737 flights recently, most of us are old and have devoted most of our energy for the airline. Therefore, we want the acting supervisors to fly those flights and assign us to fly the flights with more layovers. The acting supervisors agree with this idea as they will know that they follow our footsteps when they reach our age.
b) Some lead cabin crew members are overriding our authority we want our authority to be respected we are being treated as insignificant; change that.
3. Demand from all crew members
a) We want Lead cabin crew Meretework who has been serving in the cabin crew association to be returned back to her job immediately. P.s. Merete or other association members are not our group members and they will be surprised when they read this email.
b) We want those cabin crew members who are flying round trip flights because they did not fly a flight that is above their duty hour to be returned back to normal schedule immediately. Why are duty time limitations set if they are not to be respected. The management should have stood by crew member’s side, not punish them. They did nothing wrong they just acted according to the law. Scheduling should have one set of crew ready as standby every day. Why are cabin crew being punished for the failure of crew scheduling.
c) We are very angry to contribute 1$ from our per dime per hour. This is too much for us since some of us save the money we are given for food and run our households. Why are we the one who are contributing a lot? If the airline is in trouble as you say it is then let’s talk about taking 10% from our salary. The allowance you give us is for food most of us eat our food with it or save it. Either way we do not want to give our allowance for the airline. The basic point with allowance is that we spend it for food, tip and laundry you should not take money from food. Do you want us not to eat or not to pay for porters or come to flights with dirty clothes?
Methods to be used for the strike
1. We will not keep your schedules; most flights will arrive with a delay which will be very costly to you. We will consume extra fuel by using APU, reveres power, not using direct routes, following strict SID and STARs and etc.
2. We will drive all your customers away by telling everyone we know that the airline is unsafe. We have hacked into your shebamiles email address we will start sending them news that is unfavorable to this airline.
3. We have talked to some of your competitors that are very happy for the failure of the airline and they are willing to surface negative advertisement about this airline
4. We will communicate with the staralince group and reveal things you don’t want them to know
5. We will tip IOSA and SAFA organizations your unsafe operations
6. We will not follow your cost saving initiatives, we will start dumping the most expensive drinks and every flight will be very expensive for you. We know that you cannot fire every one and every one will do it. We will break all the headsets all the glasses and china wear until all of it will be gone and the airline has to buy new ones.
7. We will use poor customer handling methods.
8. Each of us will be united everything will be run through email and face book accounts and you can try to find this group but you will not. We have taken every precaution not to be found.
The cyber revolution that has brought the fall of president Muberk and president Gadafi has begun in Ethiopian airlines. Our demands are very few take us very seriously we are not bluffing. This revolution is like a forest fire you don’t know where the fire starts but the fire will be everywhere.
Dear employees lets stand together and fight this unjust management team. The airline needs to be run by matured and educated people not by political appointed managers who are dragging us down. Please create a fake gmail address and face book account we can chat we can skype and we can email each other. If the management does not act according to our demand we will communicate and start our strike. Do not trust anybody don’t talk anything we will just act we will not talk. And we shall win.
Dear management team if the airline is in a loss then it’s your failure. As far as we are concerned we have been working so hard. This means you have not been working so hard. All of you have been very busy fighting with individuals, consumed with calculating benefits of cockpit and cabin crew member, or calculating ways how to reduce our payments. You should have been busy with income generating operations. The management is full of negative attitude towards the employees, therefore, you failed. Step down and give the chance for others who are intellectuals and experienced to lead.
Ato Tewelde when you said that the airline needs to save 1billion birr is it so that you commission as a board member does not decrease? If the airline is in trouble show us some financial statements and we can trust you, otherwise we believe it’s for your personal commission that you are forcing us to contribute this money. Shame on you.
The group will give the management one month advance to fulfill our demands as of today. If we do not see any change in one month time then we will initiate the strike using the method above and you will see how powerful united employees are.
Sincerely yours.
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you don't just go assuming things like that .. very ignorant and racism talk!
but on the real, tell me what other African airline has accomplished as much? Given the broke status of a country, it's not like we paid to be awarded the 'Best' .. we earned it!
Event if we don't have the advancement that western countries do, we have made it this far and still striving to get better..
And come on .. those excuses you are giving out are just lame .. like any other big airline flying to over 60 destinations .. we have regular pre flight maintenance staff checking on the details .. and we under go audits like any other line .. so we clearly wouldn't fly when out of gas .. Hate on Ethiopians if you have general complex issues, you can't come out of nowhere and decide to hate on a company .. what u think we just fly without following rules and regulations?
And yes, we do happen to have a different kind of pride in our people, as stated, for being one of the only two African countries that were never colonized. You can't possibly hate on that. That has nothing to do with superiority complex, simple pride and holding heads up
but on the real, tell me what other African airline has accomplished as much? Given the broke status of a country, it's not like we paid to be awarded the 'Best' .. we earned it!
Event if we don't have the advancement that western countries do, we have made it this far and still striving to get better..
And come on .. those excuses you are giving out are just lame .. like any other big airline flying to over 60 destinations .. we have regular pre flight maintenance staff checking on the details .. and we under go audits like any other line .. so we clearly wouldn't fly when out of gas .. Hate on Ethiopians if you have general complex issues, you can't come out of nowhere and decide to hate on a company .. what u think we just fly without following rules and regulations?
And yes, we do happen to have a different kind of pride in our people, as stated, for being one of the only two African countries that were never colonized. You can't possibly hate on that.
That has nothing to do with superiority complex, simple pride and holding heads up Please don't tell me that you also believe in the bomb/missile/malfunctioning airplane theory in Beirut as well.
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I was told by one of their 767 FOs that he made $985.00 USD per month...he was on his way to SEA to transition to the 777...this was just before the 777 showed up...as soon as he got some time on the 777 he was going shopping for another gig...go figure. I've heard endless horror stories about the operation, from expats flying there. Stay well clear unless there's nothing else on the horizon for you.
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Why do people post nonsense about airlines like ET, clearly the post by aircraftflyer or whatever is something he has made up and its a shame people post on a so called "professional" forum with questionable facts.
The mods are failing on this and hence people are simply using PPRUNE as a platform to slander and malign organizations or airlines they know nothing about or have an axe to grind with, maybe Etihad was right in stopping all discussions about them here, clearly no level headed discussions ever takes place here anymore, what with the blatant bias we see from the western pilots on here who are a majority.
That is why they will tell you things like Air france is still safe despite their crew stalling a perfectly flyable aeroplane and turn around and spew slime on ET
Who doesn't know the AF crash was also largely in part due to pilot error, hell my stall recovery training has been changed since this accident.
ET F/O's do not earn 900 dollars, that is a blatant lie and as i said somebody trying to slander an organization they know little or nothing about,.
For a long time their F/O's were underpaid, but hell even on the 737 they use to earn more than the 900 sensationally quoted by the some ignorant ****.
The mods are failing on this and hence people are simply using PPRUNE as a platform to slander and malign organizations or airlines they know nothing about or have an axe to grind with, maybe Etihad was right in stopping all discussions about them here, clearly no level headed discussions ever takes place here anymore, what with the blatant bias we see from the western pilots on here who are a majority.
That is why they will tell you things like Air france is still safe despite their crew stalling a perfectly flyable aeroplane and turn around and spew slime on ET
Who doesn't know the AF crash was also largely in part due to pilot error, hell my stall recovery training has been changed since this accident.
ET F/O's do not earn 900 dollars, that is a blatant lie and as i said somebody trying to slander an organization they know little or nothing about,.
For a long time their F/O's were underpaid, but hell even on the 737 they use to earn more than the 900 sensationally quoted by the some ignorant ****.
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Ethiopian
Get your facts strait.
ET raised the pay for everybody by 20% at the beginning of the year, so now they make a little bit more than $ 1000/month however they got back to the pilots and flight attendants and deducted 10% of the pay for increased fuel costs. Flight attendants routinely fly more than 90 hours and get paid less than $ 500 with per Diem.
It is a fact that the qualification of the F/Os is less than desirable. The understanding of basic IFR rules is non existing. Many Captains do not let the F/Os fly the airplane anymore because of the lack of skills.
By the way, B 767-300 landed in FRA with 3 To of fuel remaining without any incident reports or advising of fuel emergency. Good Job No 1 airline.
ET raised the pay for everybody by 20% at the beginning of the year, so now they make a little bit more than $ 1000/month however they got back to the pilots and flight attendants and deducted 10% of the pay for increased fuel costs. Flight attendants routinely fly more than 90 hours and get paid less than $ 500 with per Diem.
It is a fact that the qualification of the F/Os is less than desirable. The understanding of basic IFR rules is non existing. Many Captains do not let the F/Os fly the airplane anymore because of the lack of skills.
By the way, B 767-300 landed in FRA with 3 To of fuel remaining without any incident reports or advising of fuel emergency. Good Job No 1 airline.
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@Africa liar, because that's what you are, i went to school with some ET F.O's and still keep tabs with some of them to date, i will say it again ET F.O's do not earn that much, as a matter of fact three years ago their local 737 F.O's used to get paid 2,000 U.S.D, which at the time was i think the lowest anywhere flying a jet. That has since been reviewed and it is higher now, this from local F.O's who actually work for the airline, not rumour mills like you.
About their F.O's not flying due to lack of skills, well again a blatant lie, ET has some serious C.R.M issues which can not be wished away, most of their local Captains who are ex military are simply overbearing, thus you have, especially on their 737 fleets where most of their AB initio's end up a very steep cockpit gradient, bad for a safe cockpit. We all know from history many accidents where co pilots sat mum while their captains flew them straight to the ground to their deaths and not once did they react, not really a matter of skill rather a cultural problem if you like.
So being given a leg is largely dependent on your captain, and that is why some of them do like flying with the expats, not because they are sky gods but because they are more relaxed than their military hardened local pilots.
About their F.O's not flying due to lack of skills, well again a blatant lie, ET has some serious C.R.M issues which can not be wished away, most of their local Captains who are ex military are simply overbearing, thus you have, especially on their 737 fleets where most of their AB initio's end up a very steep cockpit gradient, bad for a safe cockpit. We all know from history many accidents where co pilots sat mum while their captains flew them straight to the ground to their deaths and not once did they react, not really a matter of skill rather a cultural problem if you like.
So being given a leg is largely dependent on your captain, and that is why some of them do like flying with the expats, not because they are sky gods but because they are more relaxed than their military hardened local pilots.