Airlink Accident in George 7 December '09

[Tom_Kitty]

Ejection seats??

I like the quote below:

SA Airlink plane overshoots runway - Times LIVE

"It didn't affect traffic on the freeway, but 35 people were ejected from the aeroplane, three of them with minor injuries," said spokesman Julian Jansen.

35 Ejection seats? That is truly impressive s***t! Maybe airlink should also educate their spokespeople in matters of aviation.

[reptile]

Originally Posted by suitcaseman

All those calling for Link to be shut down - come on! There are a lot of good people working at Link that rely on the job. Find the problem, fix it and get on with it. There were no winners when the CAA shut down Nationwide but many losers.

I agree 100%.

Originally Posted by babemagnet

-Very Bad Ground spoilers on the Embraer
-No thrust reverse on the Embraer
-Long landing maybe?

Your first two points are very relevant and are almost certainly contributing factors. As for the long landing, I'm not too sure. I diverted to GRJ about 40mins after the ERJ parked in the weeds and had a long chat to the BA captain that was at the hold when Link landed. According to him the approach looked normal and they touched down just after the piano keys. It is virtually impossible to accurately judge approach speed as an outside observer and we'll have to wait for the FDR to see if they were too fast.

They nearly made it by the way - according to the BA crew they were slow (walking pace) by the time they got on the grass. The steep slope and the wet grass came into play however, making the outcome inevitable.

[toolowterrainpullup]

"It didn't affect traffic on the freeway, but 35 people were ejected from the aeroplane, three of them with minor injuries," said spokesman Julian Jansen.

35 Ejection seats? That is truly impressive s***t! Maybe airlink should also educate their spokespeople in matters of aviation.

The quote was by an ACSA spokesperson in George and not Airlink.

As for closing Airlink down; Hell no, but I do think a long and hard look at managment and operational structures would be a start. You can not have a person running the operations in an airline who is purely driven and rewarded for saving money and making profit. There needs to be a balance and this is where structure is important as there is a fine line between a profitable safe flight and an accident waiting to happen.

Next, you cannot have a Chief Pilot who is 'Chief cook and bottle washer', (Line Captain, Line Check Captain, Fleet Captain and Chief Pilot all rolled into one). There is just simply to much work for one person when filling all the roles. As a result important things do not necessarily get the attention they deserve.

Listen to your flight crews; when they point out a problem they are not just doing it to cause friction. In the wake of Nationwide's demise it was found that most of the issues found where actually raised by the crews and engineers previously.

Let this be a lesson to Airlink. Maybe this is where the charter company becomes a real Airline, but definately not with the current people steering the ship.

[Der absolute Hammer]

Although it might have the same effect in the long run, the CAA would presumably not 'close down' an airline. rather the CAA might suspend its AOC pending an investigation into the recent accidents and crashes relating to the company.

[Wagw370]

Experience

During my time at Airlink I landed both the Jetstream and the Embraer at Fagg many times in all types of weather.There are no Performance issues with the 135. IMHO there was a malfunction.

There should be an investigation into Airlink as a whole.There was always friction between aircrew and management when I was there.Aircrew were simply considered an " asset" to be used by management to the fullest for the companies and shareholders benefit.

I wish all my ex colleagues at Airlink the very best and sincerely hope that this event will be the turning point from which matters improve and Airlink does really become the sought after company to work for as we used to be constantly reminded it was,by an ex" Human "resources manager..

[Der absolute Hammer]

But then is not the CAA nothing but a paper tiger which continues to allow an airline which has had two crashes and an accident/incident, in the last three months, to operate while it, the CAA continues to decide what to do?
They may be nuce people who work for the airline but I am sure that not all of the passengers, past and future are deserving of such a record of safety in a licenced public transport carrier. Surely the punters also need protection from Airlink management?

[120y]

especially bad press.

[Der absolute Hammer]

Well no, I disagree. The photographs and the fundamental facts speak for themselves. It is an appalling record.
In another matter that has been raised - plenty of airlines world wide have as many or more rotations per day as Airlink. Crashes and accidents are not a permissible percentage of the total flights per diem.

[Capetonian]

Thinking back on one of my last flights on Airlink, just a week before the George crash, I found two things somewhat unprofessional.

First the passengers were held on the tarmac in the bus for about 10 minutes whilst mechanics made some adjustments, as we were later told by the Captain, to an engine. Not a big deal but probably not very smart to do this in view of passengers who might be nervous - and in this case perhaps justifiably so.

Second, after we had moved away from the gate the FA's were counting and recounting pax on board and then announced that 'there appears to be an extra passenger so if anyone is not going to George please let us know'. Surely this should be done before leaving the park position?

[four engine jock]

Capt Scully Levin

With regards to appointing Captain Scully Levin, I feel many people will see that as conflict of interest. Captain Levin is on pension from SAA and it would not benefit SAA is they close down Airlink. I am not saying that they should be closed down at all.

Airlink should have appointed a person that is has no affiliation with either Airlink,SAA or any South African airline for that matter.

We all know that Captain Scully Levin carries a lot of clout and is well known around the world.

With regards to the International Air Transport Association’s (IATA) Operational Safety Audit (IOSA) process. Airlink was one of the last South African Airline to get there IOSA certification.

And Airlink was NOT ONE OF THE FIRST AFRICAN AIRLINE TO GET OR PASS THE THERE IOSA AUDITS !!!!

All IATA members Airlines had the Pass there audits by the end of 2008 or risk being thrown out of IATA.

[Der absolute Hammer]

That is a very good appointment for Airlink but there is a big joke in there somewhere? Has Foster forestalled the Feds? The airline itself is allowed to employ a heavy weight to inspect its own short comings? No doubt that will nicely draw any stumpy teeth that the authority has remaining.

[grjplanes]

The passenger handling at George is not done by Airlink

I think he meant he was flying TO George, so most probably from CPT...

I must say, the last time I flew them CPT-GRJ (on BAe146) something very unprofessional and probably illegal happened, there was no safety demonstration. Flight was nearly 2hours late (as this afternoon flight appears to be so often), so maybe forgotten?

[mortivflow]

something to think about

The Airports Company South Africa (Acsa) on Tuesday refrained from commenting on allegations that the runway at George Airport was recently resurfaced. This work was apparently finished about two weeks ago. The grooves which have to be cut into runways to help stabilise aircraft during wet landings, have apparently not been cut yet. In the past, pilots were accustomed to the fact that this runway had the necessary grooves. George has been dry for months, but the accident happened shortly after the first rains this week. On Tuesday pilots said that, in such a case, there is usually a significant amount of rubber and oil on the runway, which is forced to the surface by the moisture

[nugpot]

the runway at George Airport was recently resurfaced.

....

there is usually a significant amount of rubber and oil on the runway, which is forced to the surface by the moisture

Its got to be either or..........

Rubber deposits take time to build up when you have as few movements as GRJ has.

[grjplanes]

Rubber deposits take time to build up when you have as few movements as GRJ has.

How many would have been enough to have any effect. Monday morning by that time GRJ had probably double more movements than usually on a monday morning, due to several diversions from PLZ...and all flights landed at that side of the runway. Also over the weekend many more movements took place with private jets from golfers and special flights bringing in sevens rugby players the sunday night.
I've asked on another forum also about the amount of water that could have been on that side, since all prior aircraft that morning landed at that side of the runway, this flight was first to do in the opposite direction, after wind changed.

[Der absolute Hammer]

So then is aviation in this country so-unregulated springs to mind as a descriptive phrase- that jet public transport pilots are dependant on grooves on runways to help slow them down in the wet or is it that, having had the runway resurfaced without or perhaps even with these handy grooves, new performance tables for the runway have not been produced by the CAA or the required agency? Was any such resurfacing the subject of a NOTAM?
Perhaps the grooves are instead to enable standing water to drain from the runway? But then, if there were standing water on the runway on the day in question, one would have expected such a degree of runway contamination to be included in the METAR/VOLMET or even a tower report? And if it were the case that standing water was a problem on the runway on the day, why was a braking coefficient test not carried out and ther esults included in any such METAR?

[nugpot]

How many would have been enough to have any effect.

Many thousands. The USAF has a testing regimen where they measure the change of friction coefficient at a frequency determined by the number of landings of large a/c.

Their testing frequency is as follows:

Number Of Daily.........Minimum Friction
Minimum Aircraft........Testing Frequency
Landings Per
Runway End
Less than 15..............1 year
16 to 30....................6 months
31 to 90....................3 months
91 to 150..................1 month
151 to 210................2 weeks
Greater than 210.......1 week

Rubber removal at large airports (JFK, LHR) are typically done at intervals exceeding 1 year.

[Maurice Chavez]

Der absolute Hammer,

Excellent questions, very hard to answer, if I was with the CAA, I would put these questions into the Flight Planning and Performance exams, so that nobody could answer them, fail the exam and when asked for a remark it would take the CAA a few years to get back to them.

[Der absolute Hammer]

MC
How do you say-an absolutely hysterically funny suggestion, hilarious!

[nyathi]

Looking at a few posts, the following points come up over and over, it looks like it comes from previsouly Airlink employees and crew and/or family members.

1. STATEMANT DELETED; APOLOGISE!
2. Dodgy Passengar handling
3. The Crew gets treated as just another rag and as an asset, etc.
4. Friction between Aircrew and Managemant

Who is this chap.....JVJ? He does not seem like a very popular peophol at all!