RVSM Africa
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RVSM Africa
With RVSM about 2 weeks away from reality in Africa, I just wonder if the PPRUNERS out in the sticks would like to let us know how prepared the countries they operate in, are for this (for Africa) major change.
I have asked several staff members of flight plan offices in Nigeria what RVSM is, what must be in Field 10 in the ICAO flight plan and what will the new flight levels be. The answer usually is "HU what’s that". They have so far had no training at all
My view is that the same answers will come from DRC, Sudan, etc, etc, etc and it will not be nice to hear.
Any ideas how the different operators are doing with the old 73's, 72's and even newer aircraft?
Any news if some countries will be opting out of RVSM
These first days after the night of the 25th will be hairy scary.
Looking forward to a nice informative chat on this subject, that worries me a lot
Fly safely
I have asked several staff members of flight plan offices in Nigeria what RVSM is, what must be in Field 10 in the ICAO flight plan and what will the new flight levels be. The answer usually is "HU what’s that". They have so far had no training at all
My view is that the same answers will come from DRC, Sudan, etc, etc, etc and it will not be nice to hear.
Any ideas how the different operators are doing with the old 73's, 72's and even newer aircraft?
Any news if some countries will be opting out of RVSM
These first days after the night of the 25th will be hairy scary.
Looking forward to a nice informative chat on this subject, that worries me a lot
Fly safely
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Just another reason to engage the (ICAO recommended) mile right of track function for those of us lucky enough to have the gizmo.
Never has a region been so ill-prepared for the inception of reduced minimums. IMHO.
4HP
Never has a region been so ill-prepared for the inception of reduced minimums. IMHO.
4HP
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Scary Scary, don`t rely on the 1 mile offset, it only keeps you out of the way of the other guys with decent nav equipment. The others can be anywhere up to 5NM left and right...
So keep your cockpit lights down and keep your heads up, 126.9 all the way and keep the SA going.
Report all deficiencies to your airlines and associations and we can keep it safe out there....
So keep your cockpit lights down and keep your heads up, 126.9 all the way and keep the SA going.
Report all deficiencies to your airlines and associations and we can keep it safe out there....
Last edited by groundfloor; 21st Sep 2008 at 18:19. Reason: spelling...
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Sa atc
Its gona b very interesting, i can assure you that the atcs at jhb are ready to go an are 100% capable of handling anything, but the current eurocat system an "maaandag chomma" "brilliant plans" are not!
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from the documents i have read all FIRs in the AFI region are implementing RVSM. thus if above FL290 no 2000ft separation will be used, no need to change from 320 to 310 since 310 will no longer be Westbound.....
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who is ready?
hi there
I know Airways is equipped,but is the domestic crew ready?
apprently ATNS is ready,how true is that?
CAW last i heard were 50% along, any other developments?
what about Airlink,Express and 1time?
and any of the SADC countries,what are your developments?
anyone knows?
I know Airways is equipped,but is the domestic crew ready?
apprently ATNS is ready,how true is that?
CAW last i heard were 50% along, any other developments?
what about Airlink,Express and 1time?
and any of the SADC countries,what are your developments?
anyone knows?
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RVSM in Africa
Gents
RVSM takes intercontinental effect at 0001Z on 25 Sept 08. Reason for this is it is (calculated) the most stable phase of flight where the majority of a/c over Africa are in a "safe" cruise config.
Now, is Africa ready, offcourse not, although all the CAA's have accepted RVSM ops to proceed with this, many of them (incl a few in SA), are not yet familiar with the thorough understanding. However, it's the 1st time in history that all CAA's in Africa have agreed to something in Aviation!!
Now, how do we fly safe:
1) if you are RVSM compliant, you're good to go between FL290 and FL410. Ensure that your A/P system is able to hold altitude for atleast 25min with no more than a 65ft +- deviation. ensure your ACAS II is working properly!! Most importantly, 126.9 very accurately. Make sure you guys as crew are "RVSM rated" as there ARE a few important issues regarding ADC failures, periodic cross-check procedures to follow due to the more accurate requirement and smaller tolerances with RVSM equipment.
RVSM is a good thing for Africa, as the bigger cats surely needs this to get preferred FL's hence, burning less fuel. It makes 101% economic sense for airlines.
Are there any more q's on RVSM?
Apollo 20
RVSM takes intercontinental effect at 0001Z on 25 Sept 08. Reason for this is it is (calculated) the most stable phase of flight where the majority of a/c over Africa are in a "safe" cruise config.
Now, is Africa ready, offcourse not, although all the CAA's have accepted RVSM ops to proceed with this, many of them (incl a few in SA), are not yet familiar with the thorough understanding. However, it's the 1st time in history that all CAA's in Africa have agreed to something in Aviation!!
Now, how do we fly safe:
1) if you are RVSM compliant, you're good to go between FL290 and FL410. Ensure that your A/P system is able to hold altitude for atleast 25min with no more than a 65ft +- deviation. ensure your ACAS II is working properly!! Most importantly, 126.9 very accurately. Make sure you guys as crew are "RVSM rated" as there ARE a few important issues regarding ADC failures, periodic cross-check procedures to follow due to the more accurate requirement and smaller tolerances with RVSM equipment.
RVSM is a good thing for Africa, as the bigger cats surely needs this to get preferred FL's hence, burning less fuel. It makes 101% economic sense for airlines.
Are there any more q's on RVSM?
Apollo 20
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I think for the CT-JS-CT route this will be great. Can get optimum levels. I know SAA and Comair is compliant. Do not know the rest. For the rest of Africa...... I believe we will have a couple more FLs but without the REAL support.
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Quote: "I know Airways is equipped,............"
Which "Airways"? This is the African Aviation forum and there seem to be many air operators named "XYZ Airways" in the continent: eg Zambian Airways, Sudan Airways, Hewa Bora Airways. Kenya Airways, British Airways, Wimbi Dira Airways, etc. Which of them are equipped? Are all their crews trained?
When there are large parts of the continent where there is no effective ATC, no radio communication with ATC as their radios are u/s or out of range and no effective radar coverage how is it going to help? All it seems to be doing is placing aircraft closer together vertically without the increased equipment and training accuracy that the First World requires. It may enable some aircraft to achieve more economical flight levels but at the cost of decreased safety separation. Perhaps everyone is relying on all aircraft at these levels having and USING TCAS.
Which "Airways"? This is the African Aviation forum and there seem to be many air operators named "XYZ Airways" in the continent: eg Zambian Airways, Sudan Airways, Hewa Bora Airways. Kenya Airways, British Airways, Wimbi Dira Airways, etc. Which of them are equipped? Are all their crews trained?
When there are large parts of the continent where there is no effective ATC, no radio communication with ATC as their radios are u/s or out of range and no effective radar coverage how is it going to help? All it seems to be doing is placing aircraft closer together vertically without the increased equipment and training accuracy that the First World requires. It may enable some aircraft to achieve more economical flight levels but at the cost of decreased safety separation. Perhaps everyone is relying on all aircraft at these levels having and USING TCAS.
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Training
ZENJ
Training docs are difficult to come by as dedicateed documents for RVSM today (Meaning RVSM worldwide) in not available as a single doc. There are several docs available (Just Google RVSM and hope you have enough time) The best single doc is on the web by the NATRACKS) This doc is dedicated to the North Atlantic Track. They started RVSM etc. Get it from the web. Eurocontroll and FAA have some docs as well, but they are read with thge NATRACKS doc
( Some ppruner can pleas give some ref to the sites)
My bigest proble is basicaly the overflight of the DRC and Angola. The HF in these FIR's are realy a hit and mis. Did Lagos Yomeo the other day and from Douala to Entebe airspace we had minimal contact except 126.0
I agree with some contributer the the TRA will not be a problem. Not to woried about SADEC The VHF coms in these FIR's is reasonable (unless you prove me wrong, havent been there lately)
I am glad I will not be airborn in the transition time and certainly will recomend to the boss not to be. Simpathy to all those big 2, 2 and 4 holers during that night.
Spoke to Aero in Nigeria and the are ready (to be expected from a good airline). Assume Arik and Virgin will be as wel but for the rest ............(politicaly correct No Cement)
I fully agrre with the statement to offset track. Modern nav systems are to damm acurate for comfort in Indian country. Thanks heavens for TCAS (Hopefully not to many aircfart will operate incognito as I am worried about those IL 76 etc from the old eastern block although we must garant them some credit THEY HAVE IMPROVED A HELL OF A LOT)
I started this tread and I am pleased about the reaction Shows that there are a lot of concern out there.
Training docs are difficult to come by as dedicateed documents for RVSM today (Meaning RVSM worldwide) in not available as a single doc. There are several docs available (Just Google RVSM and hope you have enough time) The best single doc is on the web by the NATRACKS) This doc is dedicated to the North Atlantic Track. They started RVSM etc. Get it from the web. Eurocontroll and FAA have some docs as well, but they are read with thge NATRACKS doc
( Some ppruner can pleas give some ref to the sites)
My bigest proble is basicaly the overflight of the DRC and Angola. The HF in these FIR's are realy a hit and mis. Did Lagos Yomeo the other day and from Douala to Entebe airspace we had minimal contact except 126.0
I agree with some contributer the the TRA will not be a problem. Not to woried about SADEC The VHF coms in these FIR's is reasonable (unless you prove me wrong, havent been there lately)
I am glad I will not be airborn in the transition time and certainly will recomend to the boss not to be. Simpathy to all those big 2, 2 and 4 holers during that night.
Spoke to Aero in Nigeria and the are ready (to be expected from a good airline). Assume Arik and Virgin will be as wel but for the rest ............(politicaly correct No Cement)
I fully agrre with the statement to offset track. Modern nav systems are to damm acurate for comfort in Indian country. Thanks heavens for TCAS (Hopefully not to many aircfart will operate incognito as I am worried about those IL 76 etc from the old eastern block although we must garant them some credit THEY HAVE IMPROVED A HELL OF A LOT)
I started this tread and I am pleased about the reaction Shows that there are a lot of concern out there.
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By the way after ZENJ,s remark it actualy worries me that there are stil pilots to be trained.
Remember that you need a certificate from a SACAA aproved training School before you can ventue into RVSN airspace
The rigmarole to get you, your company and the aircraft certified is bad and for those who are not ready SORRY its going to take 2+ monthe before you can get this sorted. Just to get a booking to do the RVSM test with ARINC is a long wait(and US$4000) So get cracking
DO NOT GET COUGHT IN RVSM SPASE WITHOUT APPROVAL it will cost you BIG TIME
Remember that you need a certificate from a SACAA aproved training School before you can ventue into RVSN airspace
The rigmarole to get you, your company and the aircraft certified is bad and for those who are not ready SORRY its going to take 2+ monthe before you can get this sorted. Just to get a booking to do the RVSM test with ARINC is a long wait(and US$4000) So get cracking
DO NOT GET COUGHT IN RVSM SPASE WITHOUT APPROVAL it will cost you BIG TIME
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As long as I know Egypt (Cairo FIR) is the only Airspace in Africa applying the RVSM following ME RVSM
I have been in a visit to the CANC (Cairo Air Navigation Center) and heared that soon Sudan (Khatroum FIR) Will be applying RVSM as well and that LOA are being prepared for applying new Spearation procedures on SML and MRW VORs for Traffic on same headins following each other
By revising the NOTAMs for HSSS you will see that they have some NOTAMs regarding starting operating by RVSM
A0216/08 - TRIGGER NOTAM: PERM SUP AIP 001/08 AND AIC 001/08 IMMPLEMENTATION
OF RVCM WITHIN KHARTOUM FIR.
WEF SEPTEMBER 25TH 2008 AT 0001 UTC - RVSM WILL BE IMPLEMENTED:
- SUSPENSION OF OPERATIONS FOR NON-RVSM APPROVED AIRCRAFT ABOVE
FL410 TWO HOURS BEFORE AND AFTER THE TIME OF SWITCH OVER , FM
SEPTEMBER 24TH 2008 AT 2201 UTC TO SEPTEMBER 25TH 2008 AT 0201
UTC.
- SUSPENSION OF FLIGHT LEVELS (FL) 310,350 AND 390 TWO HOURS
BEFORE AND AFTER THE TIME OF SWITCH OVER (TOS), FM SEPTEMBER 24TH
2008 AT 2201 UTC TO SEPTEMBER 25TH 2008 AT 0201 UTC.
- DISCONTINUANCE OF OPERATIONS FOR NON-RVSM APPROVED AIRCRAFT
BETWEEN FLIGHT LEVELS (FL) 290 AND 410 INCLUSIVE FM SEPTEMBER
24TH 2008 AT 2201 UTC TO SEPTEMBER 25TH 2008 AT 0201 UTC. 09 SEP 09:46 2008
A0181/08 - SUSPENION USE OF EAST BOUND RVSM FL310, 350, AND FL390. 25 SEP 00:01 2008 UNTIL
25 SEP 02:01 2008. CREATED: 06 AUG 08:35 2008
UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 09 SEP 09:48 2008
A0171/08 - PROHIPTING THE NON RVSM ACFT WITHIN RVSM AIRSPACE (FL290 AND FL410. 24 SEP 22:01
2008 UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 31 JUL 07:36 2008
A0170/08 - SUSPENSION OF OPERATIONS ABOVE FL410 OF NON RVSM ACFT FOR TWO (2)
HOURS BEFORE AND AFTER TIME OF SWITCH. 24 SEP 22:01 2008 UNTIL 25 SEP 02:01
2008. CREATED: 31 JUL 07:29 2008
I have been in a visit to the CANC (Cairo Air Navigation Center) and heared that soon Sudan (Khatroum FIR) Will be applying RVSM as well and that LOA are being prepared for applying new Spearation procedures on SML and MRW VORs for Traffic on same headins following each other
By revising the NOTAMs for HSSS you will see that they have some NOTAMs regarding starting operating by RVSM
A0216/08 - TRIGGER NOTAM: PERM SUP AIP 001/08 AND AIC 001/08 IMMPLEMENTATION
OF RVCM WITHIN KHARTOUM FIR.
WEF SEPTEMBER 25TH 2008 AT 0001 UTC - RVSM WILL BE IMPLEMENTED:
- SUSPENSION OF OPERATIONS FOR NON-RVSM APPROVED AIRCRAFT ABOVE
FL410 TWO HOURS BEFORE AND AFTER THE TIME OF SWITCH OVER , FM
SEPTEMBER 24TH 2008 AT 2201 UTC TO SEPTEMBER 25TH 2008 AT 0201
UTC.
- SUSPENSION OF FLIGHT LEVELS (FL) 310,350 AND 390 TWO HOURS
BEFORE AND AFTER THE TIME OF SWITCH OVER (TOS), FM SEPTEMBER 24TH
2008 AT 2201 UTC TO SEPTEMBER 25TH 2008 AT 0201 UTC.
- DISCONTINUANCE OF OPERATIONS FOR NON-RVSM APPROVED AIRCRAFT
BETWEEN FLIGHT LEVELS (FL) 290 AND 410 INCLUSIVE FM SEPTEMBER
24TH 2008 AT 2201 UTC TO SEPTEMBER 25TH 2008 AT 0201 UTC. 09 SEP 09:46 2008
A0181/08 - SUSPENION USE OF EAST BOUND RVSM FL310, 350, AND FL390. 25 SEP 00:01 2008 UNTIL
25 SEP 02:01 2008. CREATED: 06 AUG 08:35 2008
UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 09 SEP 09:48 2008
A0171/08 - PROHIPTING THE NON RVSM ACFT WITHIN RVSM AIRSPACE (FL290 AND FL410. 24 SEP 22:01
2008 UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 31 JUL 07:36 2008
A0170/08 - SUSPENSION OF OPERATIONS ABOVE FL410 OF NON RVSM ACFT FOR TWO (2)
HOURS BEFORE AND AFTER TIME OF SWITCH. 24 SEP 22:01 2008 UNTIL 25 SEP 02:01
2008. CREATED: 31 JUL 07:29 2008
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The Nigerian Airspace Management Agency has been holding seminars on RVSM implementation and the awareness is gradually working its way down to the flight crew and dispatch personnel.
ATC personnel are already well briefed and will have no problems adopting the RVSM procedures and clearances
ATC personnel are already well briefed and will have no problems adopting the RVSM procedures and clearances
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Airlink's RVSM
At link the J41 and Bae 146 don't need RVSM (to low) Most of the ERJ crew are RVSM rated and the ERJ's are "RVSM out of the box". Don't know about the RJ85 though.
My question is what do we do if one of our crew member's aren't rated? Stay below FL290?
My question is what do we do if one of our crew member's aren't rated? Stay below FL290?
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RAGS
I don't see the document that you are talking of.
Can you PM me and send it on my e-mail please.
Our crew are trained and soon certified by CAA before 25th , I happen to be a member in my national RVSM steering committee and i'm collecting every document possible, i have several already.
My country will be ready both , crew and ATC personnel , for the RVSM , come 25th September.
Cheers
I don't see the document that you are talking of.
Can you PM me and send it on my e-mail please.
Our crew are trained and soon certified by CAA before 25th , I happen to be a member in my national RVSM steering committee and i'm collecting every document possible, i have several already.
My country will be ready both , crew and ATC personnel , for the RVSM , come 25th September.
Cheers
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Zenj
The doc can be found on the North AttlanticTracks Organization site
NAT PCO
Just look on the lower end and it will link you to the PDF file.
Also links to the eurocontrol site
Enjoy reading. Its a good training document dealing with two aspects of this subject RVSM and MNPS. Looks like you like to do some self study so enjoy as this was the only doc available to us oldtimers when RVSM started.
The doc can be found on the North AttlanticTracks Organization site
NAT PCO
Just look on the lower end and it will link you to the PDF file.
Also links to the eurocontrol site
Enjoy reading. Its a good training document dealing with two aspects of this subject RVSM and MNPS. Looks like you like to do some self study so enjoy as this was the only doc available to us oldtimers when RVSM started.
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training
snotneus
As far as i know all crewmembers must be rated so yep you have to below unless you want to explain thie little inconvenience to the waterfall park fairies Now that is to say if they catch you with a ramp inspection on landing etc 
But dont cry the flight schools are making good bucks out of the training.
As far as i know all crewmembers must be rated so yep you have to below unless you want to explain thie little inconvenience to the waterfall park fairies
Now that is to say if they catch you with a ramp inspection on landing etc But dont cry the flight schools are making good bucks out of the training.
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When looking for the natracks website I found the following on a safety dos they published
4HP and groundfloor mentioned it above and I found it very good
Loveitorlumpit
Strategic Lateral Offset Procedures (SLOP)
SLOP was created to reduce the risk of collision. SLOP involves the selection of offsets to the right of the cleared track and it is to be used as a Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) in the NAT Region. Random distribution of aircraft on and to the right of the centre line is key to compensating for the extremely accurate navigation capabilities of modern aircraft. This accuracy creates a situation where aircraft can be at immediate risk of collision if there is an unintended loss of vertical separation between flights following the same or reciprocal tracks.
By allowing pilots to randomly select to fly either 1 or 2 nautical miles (nm) right of the centre line, SLOP also incorporates wake turbulence avoidance procedures.
Although some NAT aircraft operators have successfully implemented this procedure as a SOP, there is still relatively little uptake on the part of the majority of NAT aircraft operators. Since the aircraft without automatic offset capability must fly the centre line, those that are capable are strongly encouraged to fly an offset of one or two nm right of the centre line.
In practical terms:
1. if your aircraft can be programmed to fly an offset, fly a one nm or a two nm offset to the right of the centre line
2. being random is key to the procedure - follow your company’s SLOP SOPs or find ways to choose different offsets for each flight
3. always fly your offset to the right of the centre line
4. you should fly an offset from the oceanic entry point to the oceanic exit point
5. you don’t need an ATC clearance for an offset
6. you don’t need to report that you are flying an offset if you are in the NAT Region
7. if your offset causes wake turbulence problems for a following aircraft, choose a different SLOP option (0, 1 or 2 nm to the right of the centre line) from the one you are currently applying
Further information regarding the use of SLOP in the NAT Region is available on the NAT Programme Coordination Office (NAT PCO) Website at NAT PCO.
4HP and groundfloor mentioned it above and I found it very good
Loveitorlumpit
Strategic Lateral Offset Procedures (SLOP)
SLOP was created to reduce the risk of collision. SLOP involves the selection of offsets to the right of the cleared track and it is to be used as a Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) in the NAT Region. Random distribution of aircraft on and to the right of the centre line is key to compensating for the extremely accurate navigation capabilities of modern aircraft. This accuracy creates a situation where aircraft can be at immediate risk of collision if there is an unintended loss of vertical separation between flights following the same or reciprocal tracks.
By allowing pilots to randomly select to fly either 1 or 2 nautical miles (nm) right of the centre line, SLOP also incorporates wake turbulence avoidance procedures.
Although some NAT aircraft operators have successfully implemented this procedure as a SOP, there is still relatively little uptake on the part of the majority of NAT aircraft operators. Since the aircraft without automatic offset capability must fly the centre line, those that are capable are strongly encouraged to fly an offset of one or two nm right of the centre line.
In practical terms:
1. if your aircraft can be programmed to fly an offset, fly a one nm or a two nm offset to the right of the centre line
2. being random is key to the procedure - follow your company’s SLOP SOPs or find ways to choose different offsets for each flight
3. always fly your offset to the right of the centre line
4. you should fly an offset from the oceanic entry point to the oceanic exit point
5. you don’t need an ATC clearance for an offset
6. you don’t need to report that you are flying an offset if you are in the NAT Region
7. if your offset causes wake turbulence problems for a following aircraft, choose a different SLOP option (0, 1 or 2 nm to the right of the centre line) from the one you are currently applying
Further information regarding the use of SLOP in the NAT Region is available on the NAT Programme Coordination Office (NAT PCO) Website at NAT PCO.
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Rags
From an ATC perspective. Fruitfull Forum! I think its important to discuss these issues, as there will definately be some "problems" to start off with. I think everyone should just keep a open mind in the beginning especially.
The way its supposed to happen, is that the whole continent adopts RVSM on the 25th, and not only the coutries that are ready. I'm not very sure about the status of most countries, but it looks like there will not be another delay this time.
Between midnight and 02h00 on the 25th, FL310, 350, and 390 will not be used, because these are the "dangerous" FL's which will change direction. So beware of those in the beginning!
Only RVSM approved aircraft will be allowed in RVSM airspace. (FL290-FL410). This approval must be indicated in the FPL, else ATC will not allow you in. Non-RVSM State aircaraft (Police, Customs and military) will be allowed into the RVSM airspace, but 2000feet seperation will be maintained.
Non-RVSM aircraft will be kept below the airspace, FL280 and below, which may cause you to have a very expensive flight. Dont get cross with ATC please, as we have no jurisdiction over this. FL430 and above will be available in some cases, if a climb through the RVSM airspace can be accommodated.
I have some documentation available on RVSM, and could present information if there are some questions.
From an ATC perspective. Fruitfull Forum! I think its important to discuss these issues, as there will definately be some "problems" to start off with. I think everyone should just keep a open mind in the beginning especially.
The way its supposed to happen, is that the whole continent adopts RVSM on the 25th, and not only the coutries that are ready. I'm not very sure about the status of most countries, but it looks like there will not be another delay this time.
Between midnight and 02h00 on the 25th, FL310, 350, and 390 will not be used, because these are the "dangerous" FL's which will change direction. So beware of those in the beginning!
Only RVSM approved aircraft will be allowed in RVSM airspace. (FL290-FL410). This approval must be indicated in the FPL, else ATC will not allow you in. Non-RVSM State aircaraft (Police, Customs and military) will be allowed into the RVSM airspace, but 2000feet seperation will be maintained.
Non-RVSM aircraft will be kept below the airspace, FL280 and below, which may cause you to have a very expensive flight. Dont get cross with ATC please, as we have no jurisdiction over this. FL430 and above will be available in some cases, if a climb through the RVSM airspace can be accommodated.
I have some documentation available on RVSM, and could present information if there are some questions.