C206 PIC or C208B co-pilot ?

[flyinggoose]

This is a bit of a hyperthetical question,but has been playing on my mind for a while.
I am just coming up to finishing my com and may be fortunate enough to have the choice of either going onto a 206 or a Van.
With the 206, i should get comand pretty soon,(with the opportunity to get onto the van later), but with the choice of going onto the van imediately i will most likely sit as co for some time,possibly 500hours.

I know there are lots of other factors that come into play but trying to keep the question simple to start with..in terms of experience for a fresh com pilot,is the PIC 206 beter than sitting co on the van,even though its turbine?

Thanks for any advise..

[VortexGen300]

206 or 208!

My opinion:

Turbine time is worth its weight in gold ?
Just be careful for the co-pilot time will only count if you and the PIC have MCC and it is required by the rules to have a co-pilot (IMC / Night / more than 9 pax etc).

PIC time you will need it anyway?

Good luck

VG300

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Nothing special about turbines.

Multi command time is what counts.

[VortexGen300]

Multi P1

Hi Twotter

Yes I will agree 100% that Multi P1 is better, but the question was 208 or 206 and then 208 is better in comparison?

Very few guys will let you go PIC on a Multi before 400 - 600 hours TT - and even then it will be tough. A lot of the commercial operators' insurance have 600+ TT and 50 hours on type to go P1 on a multi engine.

So some will have to drive 200 - 400 hours in singles to get there.

The other option would be to go contracting where some guys will take one at 300 TT as P2 on an Embraer 120.

So yes this is again just my input.

VG300

[flux]

Hey flyingoose, glad to hear you have some options. In my personal opinion, I would take the Van job. Not sure who it is for, but I think it has two advantages. Firstly once one has finished a comm (although a big deal) there is a huge amount to be learnt. Being a P2 has the advantage of learning some of the little lessons from a skip who has already frightened the St out of himself. And secondly most of the Van jobs doing the rounds operate not only out of small ****ty strips, but also major airports. My two cents. Hope it all works out for you, good luck with the last bits of the comm.

[Malagant]

Agree with Flux, its good experience on the C208 with someone that has been around and you can just about do with a Van in the bush than you can with a 206..if you go the 206 route you might be held on the 206 if the company is short of skippers on the 206 and then you battle to get on the 208..and Federal operate 208`s in SA so you can come back here and fly in SA but no one operates 206`s in SA..Good luck..

[hjmemon]

well i am new here,,,,i have FAA CPL/IR single and multi engine with some 910 hours (only 25 multi) n CAA(pakistan) cpl/ir......any chance to get a job around africa on the aircrafts mentioned in the post....
Thanks

[The Hill]

Go to Maun, best flying you'll ever do!! Start on C206, end up on Van

[hjmemon]

@The Hill
any website and/or contact deatils pls???????
btw Thanks.

[Agaricus bisporus]

On the other hand, what the hell can a P2 on a Van actually do? What on earth is the point???

I suggest you'll be ready to shoot yourself with boredom and frustration within a month.

Turbine time, as you said, will come. Well, then let it! But do something useful in the meantime. I can't see what 1,000 hrs as P2 on a Van is worth to a future employer, less than 100 as P1 on a 206 IMHO.

[big buddah]

My 2 cents worth.
There is actually no such thing as a P2 on a caravan. So be very careful going this way. As many future employers and foreign CAA will not count this time towards your total.
Better in my opinion to get the P1 time on the 206 then go P1 on the Van.
Also If you going to be sitting next to someone in a Van they probably don't have a high total time which can actually do more damage with bad habits to your flying than being by yourself.

BB

[dartagnan]

go for van job, after 500 hours, u will go as PIC.many operators worldwide here looking for van pilot with good experience.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Yes I will agree 100% that Multi P1 is better, but the question was 208 or 206 and then 208 is better in comparison?

My point being multi time and command time are more desirable, in that order. Turbine time is nothing special except to those who like to wave their willies at their piston driving friends and colleagues. If it was something desirable, there would be a column in your logbook to note that time (unless my old logbook is out of date and there is such a column these days).


A well known SAA training captain terminated the interview of a fortunate young lady who claimed she didn't need multi piston time in her logbook as she did her initial multi engine rating on a B200 and was now flying that. Skipping steps in the natural progression may have consequences that could bite us later.

[flux]

Solid Rust Twotter, I normally agree with your posts, but not this one. The world has changed. In the old days pistons were a necesarry step, why now? If I was employing someone, I dont think I would give a rats about a 210, or 206. It has a little more power than what you trained on - So what? I would imagine VFR operation, never having to look in the books for WAT limits, weight and balance, etc etc. I still believe that the Van job is the way to go, and as for a 1000 Hrs in the right seat, it will never happen. You will look at 500 hrs at most - Most operators swap seats - So it makes no difference. And as I said before, you have the benefit of I guy in the seat next to you that has seen weather etc, and has some knowledge to pass on to you.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Fair enough. However, I find that those who have done the hard yards as commander of light piston singles and twins rather than the instant low time right seat heroes on turbines, do tend to have a better grip on the realities of the job and are more confident without being cocky. They also have superior engine management skills and tend to be better at operating without supervision.

2c worth...

[flux]

I still don't agree whole hartedly, but you may have a point. Keep the blue bits on the top. Cheers flux.

[cavortingcheetah]

Have to agree that SRT's posts are usually very wonderful and well written as well!
However, would like to raise a few points which will probably do nothing but muddy the lower reaches of the Limpopo.

The 208 is usually operated as a two crew aircraft although it is certified for single crew?
flyinggoose's 208 is operated as a two crew machine, otherwise he wouldn't be sitting as co-pilot on it.
Two crew operational experience and the necessary CRM that goes with it is quite important in the career path.
Turbine handling is almost a prerequisite to transitioning to the simpler operation of jet engined aircraft.
From about the end of May this year, the SA CAA is, I think, going to require any ATPL initial flight test to be flown on a multi crew aircaft over 5,700kgs.
The stepping stone from a 208 to a Beech 200 is slightly smaller than it would be from a 206.
Any girl who told me at an interview that she didn't need piston time would be classed by me as being equally as arrogant as am I, although a damned sight more stupid, and rejected on the spot.

Would flyinggoose not be able to suffer some more and get an Instructor Rating while he is fresh in study mode? Thus would he acquire command time. There are a lot of opportunities for instructors in SA at the moment.
How can one be a co-pilot on a Cessna 206 (974kgs) ? How long would it take in the circumstances to rack up 500 hours on the 208 before possibly advancing to command? How old is flyinggoose and can he afford the time?

One final small but quite important little possible clincher in all of this might be which aircraft would provide the more amusing sort of flying?

It's got to be the 208 and a Grade III in one's spare time?

[Malagant]

Old days there were many pistons around, Barons, Senecas etc was the norm and you could only dream of getting on that B200, now not many companies operate them, pistons that is..now B200 are easy to get on and B1900`s are getting to be utilized and taking over from the B200, and alot of EMB 120 Brazilia`s are finding their way into the market, so unless you really intent on flying a piston go the Maun route, but if you get on a Van you not goiing to be sitting right too long.. if you have piston time you goiing to start right seat anyway on the Van..so why waste the time on piston..and whoever mentioned that turbine time doesn`t count for much it does and actually count quite alot..

[Solid Rust Twotter]

One final small but quite important little possible clincher in all of this might be which aircraft would provide the more amusing sort of flying?

C206 in the swamps without a doubt, but then again I'm a Luddite.

Most respectable interviewers are more interested in multi and command time. There's no mystique about turbines and the initial rating is easily carried out while being type rated. These days the first few hours on turbines are carried out in the right seat in any case so it's all pretty moot. I get the idea it's the quickie-twice-around-the-patch operators who want turbine time to avoid having to pay for an initial rating while bonding you till your wallet squeaks.

2c worth. Use, don't use.

[cavortingcheetah]

An interviewer in the future would just view the fact that one had no piston time and that one's first job had been on a turbine as nothing more than good luck.
There is no rule that says one must go out and suffer as did the forefathers, I, and no doubt, some of the better pilots around the globe.
Trouble with being stuck in the swamps is that so often one never hears what is happening in the jungle until another tiger has eaten your nilgai.


My $2 bill's worth. Definitely to be passed by untouched!