SAX Q400 farming expedition
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Priceless! What a great story. 
I can see the headline - SAX Dash bungees into fire-truck!
Next, they'll try & extingusih a fire with a seriously stretched fire-hose and find out it doesn't work as well as it did pre-bungee.
Palookas.
I can see the headline - SAX Dash bungees into fire-truck!
Next, they'll try & extingusih a fire with a seriously stretched fire-hose and find out it doesn't work as well as it did pre-bungee.
Palookas.
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Quite possible to stop on George Runway 11 (uphill) by only using discing and not reverse. brake philosophy different betwwen 300 and 400. 400 with carbon brakes needs heat and 300 not. Pilot's in brake saving mode did not apply enough heat to the system.
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Reverse does almost nothing in the 400. Disc is all you need to slow down. Unless there's a total hydraulic loss, no flaps and a short, wet runway, it shouldn't be too difficult to stop. Although, the brakes do take some getting used to. If you don't get on them it won't slow down the same.
How short is the runway in question?
How short is the runway in question?
Last edited by El Lobo Solo; 14th Dec 2007 at 06:25.
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carbon brakes needs heat
Never having flown a canadian fishing trawler, but in do have 4000hrs in turbo props. My 4X4Xfar wont coast to a halt from 180kph in 1400m, that has the frontal area of of a block of flats. Be interested to see what the torque gauges say when the props are in 'beta' range.
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Carbon brakes work fine cold
That is the same reason why F1 Cars do a warm-up lap while at certain sections of the track, accelerating against a depressed brake pedal
Never having flown a canadian fishing trawler, but in do have 4000hrs in turbo props
Ever flown a Turbo Prop that is certified to climb at 29 257 Kg's with the propeller spinning at 850 rpm? If you did, you would know and understand the Aerodynamic Forces/Efficiencies available when pulling those Six Bladed Dowty R408's into Discing... As mentioned before (on another thread), they are so efficient that if care and finesse is not used, you can yank the passengers forward (shoulders away from the seatback), without intending to...(using Discing only)
Your 4x4xFar does not have those!
Be interested to see what the torque gauges say when the props are in 'beta' range.
Now signing off on this thread, as it has become as boring and stereo type as trying to "Watch the Paint fall off the Mona Lisa..."
gear issues)
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Non-pilot speaking
Are you really serious that they tied a fire hose around the gear?? Any fire truck has ropes, surely?? And I'll call you Shirely until I hear for sure that they used a hose and not a rope.
I have lived in ZA, my nephew drives 738s and I have paxed at GRJ a dozen times AND paxed on Q400s in the UK but ... I still find this hard to believe!!
Are you really serious that they tied a fire hose around the gear?? Any fire truck has ropes, surely?? And I'll call you Shirely until I hear for sure that they used a hose and not a rope.
I have lived in ZA, my nephew drives 738s and I have paxed at GRJ a dozen times AND paxed on Q400s in the UK but ... I still find this hard to believe!!
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Avi8tor.............What exactly is your point? Trying to prove that that the Q400 is a poor product or that the pilot in question is a bit shaky?
Either way, you are completely off the mark (you did state that you are completely unfamiliar with the Q400, and had you known the pilot you'd be dishing out apologies about now). This is a simply a case of very bad luck: Steering fails as the aircraft vacates the runway onto a taxi way with an angle in excess of what the rudder can handle. Add cold ceramic brakes and you end in the sand.
Speaking of sand..........I believe there's a camel with your name on it. Now be a good boy and go play.
Either way, you are completely off the mark (you did state that you are completely unfamiliar with the Q400, and had you known the pilot you'd be dishing out apologies about now). This is a simply a case of very bad luck: Steering fails as the aircraft vacates the runway onto a taxi way with an angle in excess of what the rudder can handle. Add cold ceramic brakes and you end in the sand.
Speaking of sand..........I believe there's a camel with your name on it. Now be a good boy and go play.
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Steering fails as the aircraft vacates the runway onto a taxi way
I just take exception to the 'dodgy science' of some of the posts. However, 'none so deaf as those that will not hear'.
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Here is also initial proof that SAS eventually and possibly grounded their Q400 fleet due to their own inabilities to properly maintain the Type...
By the way - not sure what the speed limit is for taxing at SAX. The speed at which some drivers taxi, their is no way that they can stop on a taxiway if any failure occurs - let alone a steering failure.
Last edited by TwinJock; 15th Dec 2007 at 06:30.
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Even the best are not perfect.
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the statement "and had you known the pilot you'd be dishing out apologies about now" smacks of arrogance.
Speaking of sand..........I believe there's a camel with your name on it. Now be a good boy and go play
Also with a 'no blame' culture that should be in aviation these days, we should be learning from mistakes, if any are made. Hence this discussion.
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I think Bombardier has hit a dud with this type - just too many incidents for my comfort.
Q400----best turboprop ever!
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Suitcaseman, differential thrust will only help to turn the plane not stopping it in time when the nose wheel steering fails. When the nose wheel steering fails it makes for interesting times and it can happen so quicley...aspesialy in sharp turns. I know the pilot in question and hold him in high regards and if it can happen to him, boy ,it happen to any body. For the argument about carbone brakes operation when cold, yes at low speed and low thrust setting it will function but higher speed and higher thrust settings while cold....will be interesting to say the least. Carbon brakes optimum efficiency is at higher temps, why do you think the are taxi speed limits on larger aircraft? Its not only a function of tyre wall limitations!
So for all the professors out there, don't judge and condemn, especially if your not rated on the plane or know all the facts involved
So for all the professors out there, don't judge and condemn, especially if your not rated on the plane or know all the facts involved
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For the argument about carbone brakes operation when cold, yes at low speed and low thrust setting it will function but higher speed and higher thrust settings while cold....will be interesting to say the least.
COLD carbon brakes will stop the aircraft at V1 PLUS 2 seconds at max take-off mass. Its called an RTO. There is NO minimum brake temp for take off.