Nationwide grounded
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beechbum.
I take it from your name thats where you talk from, ie. your bum! a place a little lower than your brain cell ! I agree that the FAA would have acted if they had found things wrong at any carrier. BUT the FAA is manned with QUALIFIED, EXPERIENCED PEOPLE not UNQUALIFIED AND INEXPERIENCED IDIOTS POSING AS PEOPLE THAT ARE QUALIFIED !!!!!!!!!!!!!1 I say idiots, as only and idiot would have the temerity to carry out such an important job with out being QUALIFIED AND EXPERIENCED AS REQUIRED BY ICAO.
If YOU are a pilot YOU have to have a minimum of EXPERIENCE and be QUALIFIED to be allowed to fly.
How do you feel about having a license issued by people not QUALIFIED OR EXPERIENCED to issue it?
Make you feel all warm inside your beechbum eh?
As for comparing NW With the SAS I stand by that as they are the best I mean when you consider the whimps and no ambition morons who work in other companies like SAA. NW ARE THE ELITE. Now Get a life and a real job.
I take it from your name thats where you talk from, ie. your bum! a place a little lower than your brain cell ! I agree that the FAA would have acted if they had found things wrong at any carrier. BUT the FAA is manned with QUALIFIED, EXPERIENCED PEOPLE not UNQUALIFIED AND INEXPERIENCED IDIOTS POSING AS PEOPLE THAT ARE QUALIFIED !!!!!!!!!!!!!1 I say idiots, as only and idiot would have the temerity to carry out such an important job with out being QUALIFIED AND EXPERIENCED AS REQUIRED BY ICAO.
If YOU are a pilot YOU have to have a minimum of EXPERIENCE and be QUALIFIED to be allowed to fly.
How do you feel about having a license issued by people not QUALIFIED OR EXPERIENCED to issue it?
Make you feel all warm inside your beechbum eh?
As for comparing NW With the SAS I stand by that as they are the best I mean when you consider the whimps and no ambition morons who work in other companies like SAA. NW ARE THE ELITE. Now Get a life and a real job.
Last edited by Siguarda al fine; 5th Dec 2007 at 11:40.
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He protesteth to much
Just read the latest post by Siguarda. Made me start thinking so I went back and read the thread from start to current. My feeling is that he protesteth to much.
This matter is certainly not simple or one sided. CE started the spin with the FOD story and the CAA have certainly spoken without thinking more than once.
The reality here is that safety is critical! I am an executive in the mining industry. Currently the Department of Minerals & Energy (DME) is on a major safety drive. To this end a mine in Mpumalanga was closed after hours when an inspector sent an SMS to the Mine Manager. In any (temporary) mine closure the DME risk being sued for loss of revenue etc. if they did not have just cause to take the action.
CE or more specifically VB could easily have applied for an urgent interdict overturning the withdrawel of the AMO. The fact that they have sought no legal relief would imply that the CAA had just cause and applied their mind before taking action.
Safety systems are about identifying risks, assessing the probability of occurence and the consequences and then putting procedures into place to reduce either the probability or the consequences or both.
As SLF I would rather the CAA erred on the side of reducing the risks rather than allowing a "potential" risk to continue!!!
This matter is certainly not simple or one sided. CE started the spin with the FOD story and the CAA have certainly spoken without thinking more than once.
The reality here is that safety is critical! I am an executive in the mining industry. Currently the Department of Minerals & Energy (DME) is on a major safety drive. To this end a mine in Mpumalanga was closed after hours when an inspector sent an SMS to the Mine Manager. In any (temporary) mine closure the DME risk being sued for loss of revenue etc. if they did not have just cause to take the action.
CE or more specifically VB could easily have applied for an urgent interdict overturning the withdrawel of the AMO. The fact that they have sought no legal relief would imply that the CAA had just cause and applied their mind before taking action.
Safety systems are about identifying risks, assessing the probability of occurence and the consequences and then putting procedures into place to reduce either the probability or the consequences or both.
As SLF I would rather the CAA erred on the side of reducing the risks rather than allowing a "potential" risk to continue!!!
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I would rather the CAA erred on the side of consistency to squash any "potential" risk before it surfaced. Lets face it, if the CAA had all their ducks in a row, it would never have had to resort to this as any safety problem would have been picked up from the start
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MadHerb said:
There is competition from 1Time, Comair and Kulula. Strange how every thread manages to bash SAA, no matter what.............get a life, get with the thread.
I dont intend turning this into a SAA-bashing thread. I wish to state categorically now that I believe SAA are clean this time around. BUT I must ask, Why was NW grounded as the holiday season started? The timing and the media statements point to an ulterior motive/hidden agenda. As for BA/Comair providing competition, dont forget they have their own problems with the Labour Court right now. Again, is it pure co-incidence that these two airlines are experiencing Gov Dept intervention at the same time? And yes, I know the SACAA is not tax-payer funded, but they are still a government dept in the sense that they are mandated to enforce the Civil Aviation Regulations as legislated by Government. Just asking.
There is competition from 1Time, Comair and Kulula. Strange how every thread manages to bash SAA, no matter what.............get a life, get with the thread.
I dont intend turning this into a SAA-bashing thread. I wish to state categorically now that I believe SAA are clean this time around. BUT I must ask, Why was NW grounded as the holiday season started? The timing and the media statements point to an ulterior motive/hidden agenda. As for BA/Comair providing competition, dont forget they have their own problems with the Labour Court right now. Again, is it pure co-incidence that these two airlines are experiencing Gov Dept intervention at the same time? And yes, I know the SACAA is not tax-payer funded, but they are still a government dept in the sense that they are mandated to enforce the Civil Aviation Regulations as legislated by Government. Just asking.
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Go read www.sabcnews.co.za you go CE! 
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Jamex
Not going to get into a debate here about if there is just cause to ground the fleet but "If" the fleet is unsafe, then grounding it before the holiday season is the best time to do it before thousands of familys head off for christmas?
Hang in there guys and gals at NTW!!!!! I hope this one gets resolved.
Dog
Hang in there guys and gals at NTW!!!!! I hope this one gets resolved.
Dog
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Jamex you ask
I believe this was all started by Nationwide loosing and engine in Cape Town, I dont think it has been a setup to hurt Nationwide during the busy season.
Guys are quick to leap to the defence of Nationwide, I have mates working there and I would hate to see Nationwide go down because of this, but maybe its a good thing that things like this happen, if only the FAA had grounded Alaska Air just before the tail came off, there have been many accidents relating to poor maintenance and to be honest with you the rumours in the aviation scene here in SA about the standard of Nationwides maintenance were never good, I dont know if they were true or not but that was the talk in the industry.
BUT I must ask, Why was NW grounded as the holiday season started?
Guys are quick to leap to the defence of Nationwide, I have mates working there and I would hate to see Nationwide go down because of this, but maybe its a good thing that things like this happen, if only the FAA had grounded Alaska Air just before the tail came off, there have been many accidents relating to poor maintenance and to be honest with you the rumours in the aviation scene here in SA about the standard of Nationwides maintenance were never good, I dont know if they were true or not but that was the talk in the industry.
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I have been told that CAA spokesperson, Ms Gwebu, told SABC TV reporter she personally would never fly on CE, as she believed it to be unsafe. Anyone catch that broadcast? Is that professional behaviour for a spokesperson, on a sensitive topic under investigation. She should be disciplined if this is true. If it weren't all so tragic, it would be side-splittingly funny.
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Just heard from Ops the idiots from the CAA released PBI. That's at least one.
Is this correct?
If it is, then they should be able to do some domestic flights with it for Thursday and Friday, and then the LGW flight Friday evening again!
Is this correct?
If it is, then they should be able to do some domestic flights with it for Thursday and Friday, and then the LGW flight Friday evening again!
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MidmarMile
He protesteth to much
Just read the latest post by Siguarda. Made me start thinking so I went back and read the thread from start to current. My feeling is that he protesteth to much.
Believe you me I am not protesting nearly enough.
If the industry must be squeeky clean (and I for one anm for that) then lets start with an admistration that; CONFORMS TO BASIC ICAO REQUIREMENTS AND IS THEN LEGAL, HONEST, IMPARTIAL, QUALIFIED, EXPERIENCED, AND THEN I WILL STOP PROTESTING. I DONT WORK FOR VB AND DONT GIVE HOOT FOR HIM I GIVE A HOOT FOR THE UNSAFE, INSANE METHOD OF POLICING OF THE AIRCRAFT THAT FLY OVER MY HOUSE AND YOURS.
He protesteth to much
Just read the latest post by Siguarda. Made me start thinking so I went back and read the thread from start to current. My feeling is that he protesteth to much.
Believe you me I am not protesting nearly enough.
If the industry must be squeeky clean (and I for one anm for that) then lets start with an admistration that; CONFORMS TO BASIC ICAO REQUIREMENTS AND IS THEN LEGAL, HONEST, IMPARTIAL, QUALIFIED, EXPERIENCED, AND THEN I WILL STOP PROTESTING. I DONT WORK FOR VB AND DONT GIVE HOOT FOR HIM I GIVE A HOOT FOR THE UNSAFE, INSANE METHOD OF POLICING OF THE AIRCRAFT THAT FLY OVER MY HOUSE AND YOURS.
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I dared to stoop to your ignorant level..unfortunately I couldn't help myself.
And by the way I have a real job chap like my "ambitious morons" who work with me at SAA.....and very proud of it mind you.
So swing from your trees in Burundi my good fellow......................
no ambition morons who work in other companies like SAA. NW ARE THE ELITE. Now Get a life and a real job.
So swing from your trees in Burundi my good fellow......................
Last edited by beechbum; 5th Dec 2007 at 15:39.
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Contract Dog said
Jamex
Not going to get into a debate here about if there is just cause to ground the fleet but "If" the fleet is unsafe, then grounding it before the holiday season is the best time to do it before thousands of familys head off for christmas?
Agreed, if there are genuine safety concerns/violations then ground them irrespective what time of the year/season it may be. The question I still have however is, are the two incidents (NW grounded and BA/Comair's labour issue) related or not? Is there something going on behind the scenes? Why is the contract for the CEO of CAA then terminated/not renewed during this same thorny period? Is this a last gasp effort from CAA to get their house in order and end an otherwise very eventful year(for CAA) by ensuring they dont have the same issues to deal with next year? There just seems to be a lot going on and a lot of questions surrounding/involving the SACAA at this point. Not trying to propogate a "conspiracy theory" here, just asking the question. Then again, if CAA are finally doing their job, can we expect them to subject other operators to the same scrutiny?
Jamex
Not going to get into a debate here about if there is just cause to ground the fleet but "If" the fleet is unsafe, then grounding it before the holiday season is the best time to do it before thousands of familys head off for christmas?
Agreed, if there are genuine safety concerns/violations then ground them irrespective what time of the year/season it may be. The question I still have however is, are the two incidents (NW grounded and BA/Comair's labour issue) related or not? Is there something going on behind the scenes? Why is the contract for the CEO of CAA then terminated/not renewed during this same thorny period? Is this a last gasp effort from CAA to get their house in order and end an otherwise very eventful year(for CAA) by ensuring they dont have the same issues to deal with next year? There just seems to be a lot going on and a lot of questions surrounding/involving the SACAA at this point. Not trying to propogate a "conspiracy theory" here, just asking the question. Then again, if CAA are finally doing their job, can we expect them to subject other operators to the same scrutiny?
Last edited by Jamex; 5th Dec 2007 at 19:08.
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Progress maybe
Looks like a deal has been done - hope the NW guys can finally get back to work - good luck to them all.
A Civil Aviation Authority & Nationwide Airlines joint statement
Framework of compliance between SACAA & Nationwide Airlines and Nationwide AMO
SACAA, Nationwide Airlines
05 Dec 2007 17:27
The SA Civil Aviation Authority (SACAA) and Nationwide Airlines today concluded a Framework of Compliance which outlines the process to be followed in ensuring that there is compliance with the requisite regulations and to ensure adherence to the applicable regulatory framework.
Through this framework, the Commissioner has approved, in principle, Nationwide Airline's contracting out the heavy maintenance of its aircraft fleet to Safair, the independent aircraft maintenance and engineering company based at Johannesburg's O.R. Tambo International Airport. Safair is a SACAA approved AMO.
The SACAA is committed to a collaborative and constructive approach to safety compliance. We have no doubt that the audit findings related to Nationwide Airlines can be satisfactorily addressed.
According to Mr Vernon Bricknell , CEO of Nationwide Airlines - "Nationwide cannot apologise enough to their customers who have been inconvenienced through this disruption, but with this new, joint approach, they are hopeful that they will very soon get their aircraft back in the skies so that people can fly again".
SACAA has also given special permission to Nationwide to move their aircraft, which are currently in different places in the country e.g. Cape Town, Durban, etc., to Safair for maintenance purposes. These aircraft will be flown without any passengers but only with essential flight crew.
SACAA and Nationwide are committed to working together for purposes of ensuring that the highest standards of aviation safety, security and compliance with the applicable regulatory framework are , at all times, maintained. All parties are committed to ensuring aviation safety as this is non-negotiable.
Issued jointly by the South African Civil Aviation Authority and Nationwide Airlines
Framework of compliance between SACAA & Nationwide Airlines and Nationwide AMO
SACAA, Nationwide Airlines
05 Dec 2007 17:27
The SA Civil Aviation Authority (SACAA) and Nationwide Airlines today concluded a Framework of Compliance which outlines the process to be followed in ensuring that there is compliance with the requisite regulations and to ensure adherence to the applicable regulatory framework.
Through this framework, the Commissioner has approved, in principle, Nationwide Airline's contracting out the heavy maintenance of its aircraft fleet to Safair, the independent aircraft maintenance and engineering company based at Johannesburg's O.R. Tambo International Airport. Safair is a SACAA approved AMO.
The SACAA is committed to a collaborative and constructive approach to safety compliance. We have no doubt that the audit findings related to Nationwide Airlines can be satisfactorily addressed.
According to Mr Vernon Bricknell , CEO of Nationwide Airlines - "Nationwide cannot apologise enough to their customers who have been inconvenienced through this disruption, but with this new, joint approach, they are hopeful that they will very soon get their aircraft back in the skies so that people can fly again".
SACAA has also given special permission to Nationwide to move their aircraft, which are currently in different places in the country e.g. Cape Town, Durban, etc., to Safair for maintenance purposes. These aircraft will be flown without any passengers but only with essential flight crew.
SACAA and Nationwide are committed to working together for purposes of ensuring that the highest standards of aviation safety, security and compliance with the applicable regulatory framework are , at all times, maintained. All parties are committed to ensuring aviation safety as this is non-negotiable.
Issued jointly by the South African Civil Aviation Authority and Nationwide Airlines
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GRJPLANES,
Yes it's correct. Info given to me by our Ops. Didn't ask wether it would fly the domestic route though. Also been told SafAir will do the maintenance for us....Let's see how long it will take to have all our aeries back in the sky...
Yes it's correct. Info given to me by our Ops. Didn't ask wether it would fly the domestic route though. Also been told SafAir will do the maintenance for us....Let's see how long it will take to have all our aeries back in the sky...
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Nationwide Flights being Grounded
as with you all i can understand the safety issues that are being spoken about, but grounding the entire fleet? for so long, was it really necessary?
and it would be fine if you found something to do with the aircraft and not with the paperwork? the SACAA have completely lost there marbles.
sure ground them, but why the lot? let some keep operating, then take the next batch and so forth. sorry but it's too hard to believe that all the aircraft are dodgy. if you read between the lines from an objective point of view and with the Chief of the SACAA all of a sudden resigning, you can smell a rat. and i hope that VB and his legal team sue for all the bad press.
as for them going out of business i hope not, they've got SAA scared and it's about time they got a shot across the bows. State susidised and still can't offer good value.
this whole episode might affect new business a little, but i can tell you this, there past passengers are more than happy to keep flying with them. The'yve seen something they like and keep coming back for more and are telling there friends.
i feel for those passenger who've already lost the opportunity to get home for xmas to see there families.
Nationwide have bought back to the customer, good value for money when flying, service with a smile, good food and low cost direct flights from London.
Is it any wonder the rest of them (BA, SA) are shaking in there boots.
Now lets all stand up and give Nationwide some support, get them back on track and get families home to there loved ones for xmas and hope Nationide have also learnt from this experience.
and it would be fine if you found something to do with the aircraft and not with the paperwork? the SACAA have completely lost there marbles.
sure ground them, but why the lot? let some keep operating, then take the next batch and so forth. sorry but it's too hard to believe that all the aircraft are dodgy. if you read between the lines from an objective point of view and with the Chief of the SACAA all of a sudden resigning, you can smell a rat. and i hope that VB and his legal team sue for all the bad press.
as for them going out of business i hope not, they've got SAA scared and it's about time they got a shot across the bows. State susidised and still can't offer good value.
this whole episode might affect new business a little, but i can tell you this, there past passengers are more than happy to keep flying with them. The'yve seen something they like and keep coming back for more and are telling there friends.
i feel for those passenger who've already lost the opportunity to get home for xmas to see there families.
Nationwide have bought back to the customer, good value for money when flying, service with a smile, good food and low cost direct flights from London.
Is it any wonder the rest of them (BA, SA) are shaking in there boots.
Now lets all stand up and give Nationwide some support, get them back on track and get families home to there loved ones for xmas and hope Nationide have also learnt from this experience.
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Now lets all stand up and give Nationwide some support, get them back on track and get families home to there loved ones for xmas and hope Nationide have also learnt from this experience.
NOW LETS HOPE THE CAA GET THEIR HOUSE IN ORDER BEFORE THEY GET MORE ROTTEN AND CORRUPT.
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Nationwide needs to operate. When the SACAA clears them, we shall see them in the skies again. My concern is what do the general public make of all this, with all the news broadcasts etc. Public opinion counts. How much damage has been done to Nationwide's reputation and what will it take to restore public faith in them again?
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Safair maintanance
Cant wait to see VB face(or be a fly on the wall) when VB receives his first bill from SAFAIR !!! They are not the cheapest and they dont cut corners. VB might have wished he was grounded for good.
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Calculator
Not the best either, the aircraft I flew that were maintained by them always had a few snags in the books......was a stark contrast to SAAT which were light years ahead in my opinion, those fluffies were exceptionally maintained by SAAT, must be all that public money.
They are not the cheapest and they dont cut corners.