Nationwide grounded
Its astounding how anything can be turned into a SAA bashing thread. 
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Very sorry for the guys and gals involved.......but probably overdue.
If only CAA could act without needing such provocation and also do it without being hypocritical.
If only CAA could act without needing such provocation and also do it without being hypocritical.
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This to me, looks like a mistaken identity and delayed action on the part of the SACAA. I had officially requested the grounding of the congoleses' "nations" Boeing at Lanseria during October, (which nobody knows why they didn't), but now they ground the whole Boeing fleet of Nationwide at the end of November.
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Have it on good authority that NW will be flying by Monday and I hope its true. I feel for those great people that work for the best airline in RSA.
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White's versus Nationwide
Charterguy.
It has nothing to do with the colour of the people who are running the company nor the colour of who owns the company.
It is all about safety.
What some people dont understand, is that it is easy to sit on the fence and bleat like lambs about the doings and goings of a company, but not one of them who shout so loud will put anything on paper.
So now do you expect the CAA or any other institution to go running into an organisation with a rumour....no, they are not stupid as they will end up in court on the wrong side of a law suite.
This time, I believe, someone put it on paper and then CAA acted.
Oh, and by the way, I do believe CAA have pilots flying for Nationwide on a programme which has been running for 18 months, (and just so that you dont start the next rumour, they are not white pilot's).....
Goffel..
It has nothing to do with the colour of the people who are running the company nor the colour of who owns the company.
It is all about safety.
What some people dont understand, is that it is easy to sit on the fence and bleat like lambs about the doings and goings of a company, but not one of them who shout so loud will put anything on paper.
So now do you expect the CAA or any other institution to go running into an organisation with a rumour....no, they are not stupid as they will end up in court on the wrong side of a law suite.
This time, I believe, someone put it on paper and then CAA acted.
Oh, and by the way, I do believe CAA have pilots flying for Nationwide on a programme which has been running for 18 months, (and just so that you dont start the next rumour, they are not white pilot's).....
Goffel..
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Well its done ! Just hope that it is VB that takes the brunt of this and not the Guy's an Gals, who actually make the airline what it is, as pax see it (saw it) while VB skimps and scrapes then races his Porshe on weekends! Trust all is good for the 'wekas' in the end 
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My theory why the CAA took such belated drastic action:
Boeing have a reputation to protect. They can't allow their airplanes to be perceived to be falling out the sky. The CAA have been taking stick from the FAA in the recent audit, so the pressure on the CAA could possibly have come from Boeing!
Boeing have a reputation to protect. They can't allow their airplanes to be perceived to be falling out the sky. The CAA have been taking stick from the FAA in the recent audit, so the pressure on the CAA could possibly have come from Boeing!
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As a ntw pilot, some truths, I would not, nor have been asked to fly in contradiction to the MEL. VB has not threatened anyone I know to fly in the 2 years I have been there. Boeing have said that there was no operator compliance issues in the engine seperation saga.
Obviously there is a lot going on behined the scenes at the AMO that we are not privy to.
Obviously there is a lot going on behined the scenes at the AMO that we are not privy to.
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nationwide pilots
have it on good authority, that the Nationwide Pilots , are on leave until further notice.Monday wont happen
Last edited by wilford@global; 1st Dec 2007 at 11:35. Reason: add comment
Gatvol
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no, they are not stupid as they will end up in court on the wrong side of a law suite.
Nice of you to stick up for the CAA, but it would be also real nice to find out exactly why an entire Airline was shut down. As mentioned It seems not just a -200 problem. CAA?, FAA?, Manufacturer? anyone in the industry has Reps working DAILY with these companies, or at least should. Just to avert action such as this.
WHA Hoppen?? somebody drop de ball? Nationwide??, CAA??
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Is R.VP still incharge of the AMO ? We all give VB the lip, but he is also a very mech minded guy, and I doubt very much that he would agree to something that could/would go badly wrong if not corrected.
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I have no doubt that the 'enforced leave' will be taken from the Nwide pilots leave time. This after being told via the usual memo that 'no leave applications over December and January will be approved.' Typical Nationwide HR...
Anyway, a brief consultation with my usual sources shows absolutely no 'requests' to depart from the MEL, and if the AMO is doing anything dodgy, the pilots don't know about it. The engineers are generally overworked as well.
Frankly, to me it smacks of the whole Nwide management culture - pare everything down to the bone (the marrow more likely), then expect people (pilots, cabin crew, and engineers) to just 'make a plan' on the day, this DESPITE managements absolutely idiotic strategies (Worldspan, BOB, truly crap HR and roster policies, fighting recognition of a union, inability to listen, failure to consult with ANYBODY prior to implementing anything, poor training of staff, the list goes on and on and on.....)
They (management) reap what they sow - it's just a pity that the people who will be the most affected are the people who made it work on a daily basis up till now. The crew have my respect - nobody flies a dodgy aircraft on purpose, and they are truly the last defenders of safety at Nationwide.
Anyway, a brief consultation with my usual sources shows absolutely no 'requests' to depart from the MEL, and if the AMO is doing anything dodgy, the pilots don't know about it. The engineers are generally overworked as well.
Frankly, to me it smacks of the whole Nwide management culture - pare everything down to the bone (the marrow more likely), then expect people (pilots, cabin crew, and engineers) to just 'make a plan' on the day, this DESPITE managements absolutely idiotic strategies (Worldspan, BOB, truly crap HR and roster policies, fighting recognition of a union, inability to listen, failure to consult with ANYBODY prior to implementing anything, poor training of staff, the list goes on and on and on.....)
They (management) reap what they sow - it's just a pity that the people who will be the most affected are the people who made it work on a daily basis up till now. The crew have my respect - nobody flies a dodgy aircraft on purpose, and they are truly the last defenders of safety at Nationwide.
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JOHANNESBURG Nov 30 Sapa
NATIONWIDE GROUNDING HITS 6,000 PASSENGERS
The grounding of Nationwide aircraft affected 6,000 passengers on
Friday alone, the airline said.
It had to cancel 60 flights -- including one to London on Friday
night and two to Livingstone, in Zambia -- said Nationwide sales and
marketing manager Charmaine Thome.
Also cancelled were the airline's domestic flights to and from Cape
Town, Durban, Port Elizabeth, George, Mpumalanga and Johannesburg, she
said.
"We are really sorry (the passengers) are going through this
experience," she said.
The airline was "truly upset" at what had happened. It is
"definitely not what we want."
Thome said the only airlines "accepting Nationwide paper", or
prepared to give seats to Nationwide ticket-holders were British
Airways and its affiliate Kulula.com -- and then only depending on
availability.
She said Nationwide was offering full refunds to passengers unable
to get alternative transport. It was also offering to change their
tickets for flights on later dates.
The SA Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) suspended its approval of the
airline's in-house aircraft maintenance organisation (AMO) from
midnight on Thursday, CAA chief executive officer Zakes Myeza said on
Friday.
It also suspended the certificates of airworthiness of Nationwide's
fleet of 16 aircraft -- 12 Boeing 737-200s, three Boeing 727s and one
Boeing 767.
"It was unavoidable," Myeza said at a press conference at CAA
headquarters in Midrand.
"We cannot afford to be reckless on this one because we are dealing
with human lives," added CAA legal executive manager executive Nheri
Magoai.
The inconvenience might well be to the benefit of the airline's
passengers, he said.
Nationwide was informed of the decision early on Thursday night.
Airline officials immediately entered into talks with the CAA in a bid
to resolve the matter, but had not reached a solution by 1am.
The airline intended appealing against the decision, said Thome.
CAA aircraft safety executive manager Obert Chakarisa said the
grounding resulted from its consideration of the airline's application
for the annual renewal of its AMO licence.
Instead of approving the licence, the CAA issued an interim renewal
until December 20, conditional on answers to maintenance concerns.
It was coincidental that, during this audit process, an engine fell
off a Nationwide Boeing 737-200 at Cape Town International Airport on
November 7.
The Johannesburg-bound Boeing 737 lost one of its two engines during
take-off from Cape Town airport, yet managed to land safely half an
hour later.
The airline failed to adequately implement three airworthiness
directives issued in response to the incident, said Chakarisa.
These included requirements issued by the manufacturer after four
similar incidents in the United States, which called for, among others,
the refitting of certain bolts on the engine mounting and the
overhauling of certain other components.
While the CAA would not indicate whether pirate parts were found to
have been used on the Nationwide aircraft, it did disclose that the
bolts fitted were "untraceable".
Chakarisa would not comment on whether this type of problem arose
from the emerging phenomenon of low-cost flying.
"They (Nationwide) were 100 percent aware of what had to be
undertaken; what the airworthiness directives were; what parts had to
be replaced," said Myeza.
Magoai said Nationwide would have to prove compliance and the
airworthiness of each aircraft verified before the suspension was
lifted. He would give no indication of how long this could take.
Should Nationwide fail to comply, its licence could be revoked
altogether.
Asked whether the CAA had given any thought to the possibility of
the grounding putting Nationwide out of business, Magoai said: "We do
sympathise with them. It's just an unfortunate event. We hoped we could
avoid it."
Chakarisa said this was not the first time the CAA had grounded an
airline.
The much smaller airlines Nel Air and Execu Aerospace were grounded
over maintenance concerns and two more small airlines would be
suspended in the next week, he said, but would not name them.
Thome said on Friday that Nationwide had not informed passengers of
the grounding on Thursday night as it had hoped to have the matter
resolved by Friday morning.
"We didn't want to panic people unnecessarily. It is the first day
of the holidays. It is a very busy time of year for us," she said.
[/quote]
NATIONWIDE GROUNDING HITS 6,000 PASSENGERS
The grounding of Nationwide aircraft affected 6,000 passengers on
Friday alone, the airline said.
It had to cancel 60 flights -- including one to London on Friday
night and two to Livingstone, in Zambia -- said Nationwide sales and
marketing manager Charmaine Thome.
Also cancelled were the airline's domestic flights to and from Cape
Town, Durban, Port Elizabeth, George, Mpumalanga and Johannesburg, she
said.
"We are really sorry (the passengers) are going through this
experience," she said.
The airline was "truly upset" at what had happened. It is
"definitely not what we want."
Thome said the only airlines "accepting Nationwide paper", or
prepared to give seats to Nationwide ticket-holders were British
Airways and its affiliate Kulula.com -- and then only depending on
availability.
She said Nationwide was offering full refunds to passengers unable
to get alternative transport. It was also offering to change their
tickets for flights on later dates.
The SA Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) suspended its approval of the
airline's in-house aircraft maintenance organisation (AMO) from
midnight on Thursday, CAA chief executive officer Zakes Myeza said on
Friday.
It also suspended the certificates of airworthiness of Nationwide's
fleet of 16 aircraft -- 12 Boeing 737-200s, three Boeing 727s and one
Boeing 767.
"It was unavoidable," Myeza said at a press conference at CAA
headquarters in Midrand.
"We cannot afford to be reckless on this one because we are dealing
with human lives," added CAA legal executive manager executive Nheri
Magoai.
The inconvenience might well be to the benefit of the airline's
passengers, he said.
Nationwide was informed of the decision early on Thursday night.
Airline officials immediately entered into talks with the CAA in a bid
to resolve the matter, but had not reached a solution by 1am.
The airline intended appealing against the decision, said Thome.
CAA aircraft safety executive manager Obert Chakarisa said the
grounding resulted from its consideration of the airline's application
for the annual renewal of its AMO licence.
Instead of approving the licence, the CAA issued an interim renewal
until December 20, conditional on answers to maintenance concerns.
It was coincidental that, during this audit process, an engine fell
off a Nationwide Boeing 737-200 at Cape Town International Airport on
November 7.
The Johannesburg-bound Boeing 737 lost one of its two engines during
take-off from Cape Town airport, yet managed to land safely half an
hour later.
The airline failed to adequately implement three airworthiness
directives issued in response to the incident, said Chakarisa.
These included requirements issued by the manufacturer after four
similar incidents in the United States, which called for, among others,
the refitting of certain bolts on the engine mounting and the
overhauling of certain other components.
While the CAA would not indicate whether pirate parts were found to
have been used on the Nationwide aircraft, it did disclose that the
bolts fitted were "untraceable".
Chakarisa would not comment on whether this type of problem arose
from the emerging phenomenon of low-cost flying.
"They (Nationwide) were 100 percent aware of what had to be
undertaken; what the airworthiness directives were; what parts had to
be replaced," said Myeza.
Magoai said Nationwide would have to prove compliance and the
airworthiness of each aircraft verified before the suspension was
lifted. He would give no indication of how long this could take.
Should Nationwide fail to comply, its licence could be revoked
altogether.
Asked whether the CAA had given any thought to the possibility of
the grounding putting Nationwide out of business, Magoai said: "We do
sympathise with them. It's just an unfortunate event. We hoped we could
avoid it."
Chakarisa said this was not the first time the CAA had grounded an
airline.
The much smaller airlines Nel Air and Execu Aerospace were grounded
over maintenance concerns and two more small airlines would be
suspended in the next week, he said, but would not name them.
Thome said on Friday that Nationwide had not informed passengers of
the grounding on Thursday night as it had hoped to have the matter
resolved by Friday morning.
"We didn't want to panic people unnecessarily. It is the first day
of the holidays. It is a very busy time of year for us," she said.
[/quote]