Media report on SA pilot exodus

[Oom Kaspaas]

Doesn't matter how much they print. pilots are earning too much for an african salary

[fly nice]

The profit before tax (PBT) was R80 million. If you add back the restructuring costs, the Nett profit is R136 million. The restructuring costs to date are R56 million. R909m is projected restructuring cost, so I don't know how the R744.4m fits in. I am not sure why SAASFO wrote 'operating' in his last post? Would be strange to account for restructuring and then PAY TAX, but not reflect your aircraft leases and other costs.

Aviator, I am pleased for you that your airline is so progressive. I have been to the roadshows, and have been tempted as it appears I could then have disposable income. I am also displeased by some disturbing actions that SAA management have taken. Some of their staff placements seem more like social engineering than skills retention. I have, however, made the decision to batten down the hatches and weather the storm. Amongst other reasons, family tradgedy (not crime) has made it impractical to move at this time, but it may be something that I could persue at another time. What I find equally disturbing is the glee that you seem to take in heralding your views of gloom. You must really have been done in by SAA or South Africa. I notice you spend an awful amount of time at this passion of yours. Your views are subjective. For instance, you ignore SAASFO's previous mention of Nett profit, but give us the 101 when he slipped out 'operating profit' in his last post.

I think many of us would be blown over with a feather if KN and his team deliver sustainable profits. It's not impossible and may just be happening. After all, the Webb Ellis trophy found these green pastures despite the political influences on the sport creating a few passengers on the bench.

So, I will keep holding EK in high regard. Perhaps you too should live and let live. SAA serves many masters and it is amazing that some wheels are still on. The restructuring is painful enough without vultures.

[square leg]

fly nice nice post!

[flyingoose]

mr

Pilots are not earning to Much!, guys are quick to judge cause they are not at SAA! Cutting costs if needed should be across the the board and not only to a selected few!! Ceo is the first to cut certain benefits like first classe travel to Pilots but then books himself and the whole "familia" into first classe,! What a joke !, not to mention his wasting of SAA money by travelling by helicopter cause he doesnt want to sit in traffic!!!

[Avi8tor]

The profit before tax (PBT) was R80 million. If you add back the restructuring costs, the Nett profit is R136 million. The restructuring costs to date are R56 million

Add back restructuring cost? That again makes no sense. Are you sure what NETT and GROSS mean? Where do you get these numbers from? R744mill was by the Minister of Finance, I rather gather he MIGHT know where the country's money has been spent.

Your views are subjective. For instance, you ignore SAASFO's previous mention of Nett profit, but give us the 101 when he slipped out 'operating'

Views subjective? All I did was reply to his post, which made no sense whatsoever.

You must really have been done in by SAA or South Africa. I notice you spend an awful amount of time at this passion of yours

As I said to fluffy fan, you have made huge assumptions. ALL wrong by the way. I can happily say my time in SA was all good. My PASSION as you call it, is wanting to see the airline industry prosper in SA. This is NOT going to happen while the state is pouring endless funds into rather badly run, state controlled loss makers.

It truly amazes me that all the SAA types that post on here seem to assume the rest of us have some selfish agenda or a chip on our shoulder. Failing that, when they run out of ideas, they get into name calling. Maybe because they assume that everybody else functions the same way that they do? They seem to see NO wrong in SAA's cost structure.

Sorry gentlemen, and ladies, joining SAA should NOT be an entitlement to a ride on the gravy train for life. SAA is NOT a flying club.

[Oom Kaspaas]

Come on Av. By your age, if its correct,you were at SAA after parity. You rode the gravy train just fine while it suited you.

[777Contrail]

Well since SAA is making money now , there shouldn't be any more stress out there.

No more lay-offs, no pay cuts.

All is safe and can continue as before.............

[AirwayBlocker]

By your you were at SAA after parity.

Say again......

[fluffyfan]

It truly amazes me that all the SAA types that post on here seem to assume the rest of us have some selfish agenda or a chip on our shoulder. Failing that, when they run out of ideas, they get into name calling. Maybe because they assume that everybody else functions the same way that they do? They seem to see NO wrong in SAA's cost structure.
Sorry gentlemen, and ladies, joining SAA should NOT be an entitlement to a ride on the gravy train for life. SAA is NOT a flying club.

No AV that is simply not true, most SAA types want a health well run airline, we do not like government subsidies, we want a healthy airline so that our careers are secure, however you seem to think the solution is cutting pilots salaries, well maybe thats part of the solution and you will find in the current negotiations that we are giving and negotiating concessions right now. My point is that its not the salaries that have brought us to this point, its horrific management, interference by the government and social engineering.....you only seem intent on attacking the pilots and our "huge Salaries".

I ask you this question again, were you this militant when you were here at SAA, and if not why not....remember we are your friends and countrymen you are attacking, my opinion is that we are possibly slightly overpaid at SAA but when you consider the country we live in and the things we have to provide for ourselves ie security, medical and the list goes on....you will knotice that we have very little disposable income left at the end of the day.

Its Not SAA pilots that are overpaid in SA, its the other guys like Comair and Nationwide who are underpaid. You should know that the Union has contantly been trying to advise management and help them run the airline....as you did with the Cadet programme, only for them to tell us to go and get F we are pilots and we should leave the management to them......well we have, and look where it has taken us, so your suggestion is that the pilots should now accept below industry normal salaries to try and correct there F up...........I fail to understand your logic

[nugpot]

Its Not SAA pilots that are overpaid in SA, its the other guys like Comair and Nationwide who are underpaid.

Fluffy, you were doing so well until you got to the sentence above. I don't give a continental when you use smoke and mirrors to explain to your company how much money you are worth, but don't you dare tell me what I should negotiate with my company.

Some of us know what relative lifestyle an airline pilot should have and specifically what the wage gap between the flight deck crew and the rest of the company personnel generates in terms of bad vibes. The cockpit is not in an airline alone........

[Oom Kaspaas]

Enough with the social engineering whinge. we taught them how to do it and now they are showing us how well they learnt.

as a government organization it will be used to get the numbers right. as a private concern they will have to comply with BEE rules. This is a fact of life.

I dont have time for this. I'm in the fing sim later today

[777Contrail]

The guys (and girls) at SAA are not overpaid by industry standards.

They ARE overpaid by bussiness standards.

A bankrupt company cannot pay staff industry standard salaries. Yet they do. That's what's wrong!

If SAA was a well run, unsubsidised profit making airline I would have supported an even better pay package for the pilots.

The SAA pilots are right to expect industry standard pay - just not from their present employer.

Their present employer has no right to exist, not to mention compete with the rest of the world's remuneration.

Make no mistake, I would love for SAA to be a world leader and make us all proud.

But that's just not going to happen.....................

[777Contrail]

Nugpot, you sell yourself short!

Remember the old nursery song?

"I am special, I am special......."


So many pilots are actually believing what their management have been telling them for the last 20 years, that they don't know their own worth and wouldn't ask for the pay & respect they deserve.

[fly nice]

Avman, you did not disappoint me. Last night I went fishing and even I was surprised that you bit so soon. There must really be very little else to do when the sand gets too hot to play in. If your devotion to this site is typical amongst your peers, then I had better do more research before looking into the move for myself. And by that, I don't mean gleaming the PruNe for info. Is it just you, or is that the way it is there?
On the other hand, Oz and others are believed to be heading this way looking for rugby coaches, experienced pilots and other useful things.....

[fly nice]

Avman

Do you mind if I say Avman rather. Aviator reminds me of that movie of that wealthy, eccentric, senile recluse they portrayed Mr Hughes to be.

R744mill was by the Minister of Finance, I rather gather he MIGHT know where the country's money has been spent.

Perhaps that is all the minister is aware of at this point? A little bird whispered R909m, so that may not be gospel. My point was alluding to more than R56m before you got too focussed on that!

All I did was reply to his post

His last post. A grade 2 teacher would have taken the time to spot the incongruety with his previous post and after a second's thought, made the correct and logical assumption that the word 'operating' was used in error. He did mention TAX in his previous post and TAX is not paid on operating profit. I know it's been a while since you last paid tax (not VAT) though.

As I said to fluffy fan, you have made huge assumptions. ALL wrong by the way. I can happily say my time ...

Then it must be boredom, coupled with an insatiable desire to stick your finger up other peoples noses. Why don't you rather get married, or get a dog or something.

Take a few deep breaths and a little time. It will all come to you if you just pay a little attention

ps. Will only be back on PruNe in a week or so, so you don't have to act on any sudden urges to immediately respond, react, whatever.

[777Contrail]

Hi all check this out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tckuypdwlCA&NR=1

"All you want to do is use me!"

[RSQ]

Isit?

Hi Nugpot - is SAA only open to SA citizens?
Kak idea it seems to me, - our citizens work all over the world due to "their high standards of training", methinks then SAA should be open to all.
Now that would be an eye opener for the management boys - open it up and see how many first world pilots rush to work here !
"Robyn Chalmers, the head of communications at SAA, said the onerous conditions of employment implemented in the past had contributed to SAA's high cost base." I thought having a few thousand ground staff standing around doing very little contribute to the high cost base.
The implication here is that the pilots are overpaid and are not worth their money.
Well Lady - go take a whole bunch of contract King Air and 1900 drivers,
(who are gagging for the jobs) train them, stick them into the seats and get rid of those "onerous conditions"!!
As a matter of interest, it would be enlightening to see how many ground staff SAA has per aircraft as opposed to other airlines with similar operations,

[Avi8tor]

Then it must be boredom, coupled with an insatiable desire to stick your finger up other peoples noses. Why don't you rather get married, or get a dog or something

I love it when they run out of ideas, they get personal. Like they did in grade2. I really get a kick out of it. Wonder if he has a small......................car?

remember we are your friends and countrymen you are attacking

Does it EVER occur to you that there is an aviation industry OUTSIDE SAA?

[fluffyfan]

nugpot

. I don't give a continental when you use smoke and mirrors to explain to your company how much money you are worth, but don't you dare tell me what I should negotiate with my company.

You know what they say Nuggs........you pay peanuts...you get monkeys

Good for you boet that you are happy with what Comair or whoever you work for pays, you are possibly in a very small minority, because most of my friends working for Comair, Nationwide...are Getting the F out of this country asap, not because they want to but because they want to earn enough money to have a decent life.

AV...my old friend

Does it EVER occur to you that there is an aviation industry OUTSIDE SAA?

yes it has occured to me, and I see that world every day in my job......however I dont happen to want to leave SA, I dont want to have to live in the desert to make ends meet......is that ok with you?

[Avi8tor]

however I dont happen to want to leave SA, I dont want to have to live in the desert to make ends meet......is that ok with you

Thats perfectly ok, as long as the taxpayer isn't subsidsing your lifestyle at the expense of the rest of the industry. That seems to be where the problem lies.