What The Real Problem Is At Saa
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What The Real Problem Is At Saa
There are many posts on the woes of SAA, and as I have never worked for SAA or the SAAF (I was a Diensplig not a PF Konstabel in the SAP – because it paid better for my available brain power for 3 years in the early 80’s) with a lekker Klippie & Coke (that my Boet sends me) & watching the Rugby & munching on my biltong that I shot during a Moose hunt (I live in Canada now) with my two sons (Flying my own and fully paid for 206) I would like to gooi n lekker klip in die bos. But hey it’s a gossip column so hate it or love it but here goes:
We have to understand that SAA has never made money since its inception simply because it’s not held accountable to make money because the tax payers fund all the shortfalls. SAA needs one simple route to make money and that is to:
1. Level the playing field and hire people because they can do the job, not because they are American, Boers or Blacks and hold them accountable for their jobs.
2. Be absolutely 100% privately owned, not a Para State, Semi State, Quasi State or anything like that.
The level playing field is not just about “Africanization” it’s about the inherent history & philosophy of SAA since its inception. For a start it was always an Air Force old boys flying club, where you went to make better money and have all the Spoorie Advantages of never having to worry about bread in your mouth when your contract was over in the SAAF.
That’s where it got pilots from, in the pre Nat days it hired RAF / SAAF & “i.e. sworn Bloed Sappe” and after the Nats took power it hired SAAF old Boys many of them Broederbonders! Off course within its ranks it always had the “Mak Ingilse & Mak Joodse” faces for the sake of appearances.
From that philosophy came “Africanization”, they are hiring exactly in the same manner that SAA taught them to hire from, i.e. “your own kind”. They also put in the odd “Mak Wit” face in there cadet Program for the sake of appearances. Now we are playing this gigantic cry baby hullabaloo because “Africans” are so unfair. Hell they are not, we taught them, and they are for the sake of transparency and expediency doing exactly the same thing that SAA did after the Nats took power.
Fact of the matter is whether we like it or not the National Airline should never have allowed ex Air Force members in their ranks, because over the years (Second oldest airline in Africa I believe) the poor boy that actually had to pay for his license from day one and then got it after sweating blood and tears for lack of money never really had a fair playing field to enter SAA. Had we helped out the “Civvies” to fly “Civvies” we would have had two very good and different pools or groups of pilots.
Now before we get the ex SAAF contingent cry foul, fact of the matter is when you signed on the dotted line after selection you chose voluntarily to fly for your country, with excellent career prospects. But when the National Airline allowed you to finish your contract and join, the countries pilots suffered heavily because the guy that went up “through the civvy ranks” and actually had to use something called money to learn how to fly was put out of a job for many years.
Let’s thank our heavenly stars that the playing fields are now more level and let’s accept without tears that the SAAF / SAA boys had a good training background, thanks to the tax payers and can now fly for all the other great airlines, if they so choose. Let’s also acknowledge that SAA has gone the “civvy route” and had the balls to take previously disadvantaged kids that want to fly and give them a chance in a cadet scheme. The Nats never had this foresight because they had a pool thanks to the Air Force from which to choose.
So let’s make some figures and see how many ex “well known Air School” kids had wealthy enough daddies (thanks to being Captains in SAA and now other Airlines, courtesy of the SAAF and the Tax Payer) to pay for their Com / then Van & 1900 ratings so they can “pole” at a relatively young age Turbines on contract throughout the world and get time to enter a level playing field in the World’s Aviation market, not just in South Africa.
Now about me, yes I never made the SAAF selection because my mathematics were not “enough” and I never got into SAA, yes it made me very “de moer” in because I was still young and stupid. But I had a thing called brass balls and that was to beg borrow and lend money so that “Oom Colin Campbell” in Pietermaritzburg could take me under his wing in his beloved Cherokees and teach me how to pole. After that I had to write a Comm. (3 times it took me! – because I was stupid according to the SAAF and had to work while I flew). That Comm. Gave me a lowly paid job “when the market” was there so I ended up Poling Piston Pounders over angry skies for very little money.
So please grow up, get used to it, its life, it’s tough and there are very few winners. And “wannabee SAAF & SAA” kids please stop this crying game that your daddies taught you and grow up, there is a way, but it might take more years and a thing called guts. Now that the fields are level for all the population groups in South Africa, use your current opportunities and make the best of them. Trust me they are a lot better than in the 80’s as there are many more 1900’s flying on contract all over the world and very few Cessna 206’s and 310’s being poled alone on contract today.
Today I am still in Aviation, I am content, and I still fly and I make good money. The past is past and the future looks good. As I am pouring another Klippies & Coke & looking at my beautiful wife and two sons at our lovely home with its pool and braai area where I actually sleep every night I will be slaaning lekker dekking and hope to God that my two kids grow up knowing that nothing in this thing called life comes easy and sometimes you might have to work for it, whatever your race may be.
We have to understand that SAA has never made money since its inception simply because it’s not held accountable to make money because the tax payers fund all the shortfalls. SAA needs one simple route to make money and that is to:
1. Level the playing field and hire people because they can do the job, not because they are American, Boers or Blacks and hold them accountable for their jobs.
2. Be absolutely 100% privately owned, not a Para State, Semi State, Quasi State or anything like that.
The level playing field is not just about “Africanization” it’s about the inherent history & philosophy of SAA since its inception. For a start it was always an Air Force old boys flying club, where you went to make better money and have all the Spoorie Advantages of never having to worry about bread in your mouth when your contract was over in the SAAF.
That’s where it got pilots from, in the pre Nat days it hired RAF / SAAF & “i.e. sworn Bloed Sappe” and after the Nats took power it hired SAAF old Boys many of them Broederbonders! Off course within its ranks it always had the “Mak Ingilse & Mak Joodse” faces for the sake of appearances.
From that philosophy came “Africanization”, they are hiring exactly in the same manner that SAA taught them to hire from, i.e. “your own kind”. They also put in the odd “Mak Wit” face in there cadet Program for the sake of appearances. Now we are playing this gigantic cry baby hullabaloo because “Africans” are so unfair. Hell they are not, we taught them, and they are for the sake of transparency and expediency doing exactly the same thing that SAA did after the Nats took power.
Fact of the matter is whether we like it or not the National Airline should never have allowed ex Air Force members in their ranks, because over the years (Second oldest airline in Africa I believe) the poor boy that actually had to pay for his license from day one and then got it after sweating blood and tears for lack of money never really had a fair playing field to enter SAA. Had we helped out the “Civvies” to fly “Civvies” we would have had two very good and different pools or groups of pilots.
Now before we get the ex SAAF contingent cry foul, fact of the matter is when you signed on the dotted line after selection you chose voluntarily to fly for your country, with excellent career prospects. But when the National Airline allowed you to finish your contract and join, the countries pilots suffered heavily because the guy that went up “through the civvy ranks” and actually had to use something called money to learn how to fly was put out of a job for many years.
Let’s thank our heavenly stars that the playing fields are now more level and let’s accept without tears that the SAAF / SAA boys had a good training background, thanks to the tax payers and can now fly for all the other great airlines, if they so choose. Let’s also acknowledge that SAA has gone the “civvy route” and had the balls to take previously disadvantaged kids that want to fly and give them a chance in a cadet scheme. The Nats never had this foresight because they had a pool thanks to the Air Force from which to choose.
So let’s make some figures and see how many ex “well known Air School” kids had wealthy enough daddies (thanks to being Captains in SAA and now other Airlines, courtesy of the SAAF and the Tax Payer) to pay for their Com / then Van & 1900 ratings so they can “pole” at a relatively young age Turbines on contract throughout the world and get time to enter a level playing field in the World’s Aviation market, not just in South Africa.
Now about me, yes I never made the SAAF selection because my mathematics were not “enough” and I never got into SAA, yes it made me very “de moer” in because I was still young and stupid. But I had a thing called brass balls and that was to beg borrow and lend money so that “Oom Colin Campbell” in Pietermaritzburg could take me under his wing in his beloved Cherokees and teach me how to pole. After that I had to write a Comm. (3 times it took me! – because I was stupid according to the SAAF and had to work while I flew). That Comm. Gave me a lowly paid job “when the market” was there so I ended up Poling Piston Pounders over angry skies for very little money.
So please grow up, get used to it, its life, it’s tough and there are very few winners. And “wannabee SAAF & SAA” kids please stop this crying game that your daddies taught you and grow up, there is a way, but it might take more years and a thing called guts. Now that the fields are level for all the population groups in South Africa, use your current opportunities and make the best of them. Trust me they are a lot better than in the 80’s as there are many more 1900’s flying on contract all over the world and very few Cessna 206’s and 310’s being poled alone on contract today.
Today I am still in Aviation, I am content, and I still fly and I make good money. The past is past and the future looks good. As I am pouring another Klippies & Coke & looking at my beautiful wife and two sons at our lovely home with its pool and braai area where I actually sleep every night I will be slaaning lekker dekking and hope to God that my two kids grow up knowing that nothing in this thing called life comes easy and sometimes you might have to work for it, whatever your race may be.
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Get over it.
I spent 8 years in the SAAF. Paid for my own Comm. licence that I did after hours.(passed all subjects first time)
Paid for my own ALTP that I did after hours. (passed all first time)
Did my selections with SAA 12 years ago - was put on the famed short list and had to wait. Again 9 years ago................
I've seen many SAA captain's sons & daughters get in with only a comm.lic. and MANY darker skinned and fairer sexed ones as well.
And today I'm glad that I'm not there to see the cookie crumble...........
I spent 8 years in the SAAF. Paid for my own Comm. licence that I did after hours.(passed all subjects first time)
Paid for my own ALTP that I did after hours. (passed all first time)
Did my selections with SAA 12 years ago - was put on the famed short list and had to wait. Again 9 years ago................
I've seen many SAA captain's sons & daughters get in with only a comm.lic. and MANY darker skinned and fairer sexed ones as well.
And today I'm glad that I'm not there to see the cookie crumble...........
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SAT BOSS
Well said old chap.
Do you need ice at this time of the year with the KLIPPIES and COKE. Enjoyed your piece but don't know if everyone will. This debate of SAAF and CIVVIES will go on forever. I think this is also the case at COMAIR too. I was not AIR FORCE enough there either.
Enjoy the nightstops at home every night and keep the wings level
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SAA SELECTIONS @ Present
kn reg ja! Great to see a sensible post, but then you can understand sense becasue seems that Sat_Boss had to pay for what he has.Shame on all the
babies .... and the moonlighters that are still eating into the GA market ....Interesting I was wondering if we can post the number and maybe more info on all the SAA Captains "kids" that got in with only a Comm. It will be very
and the rest of the community can 
and say well how are those selections really conducted?Are they
or are they a bit and and and and ...... maybe a committee is called for, time to Africanize this lot and get on with it 
Oops I have been bombed off a long time ago, lost my medical so I have no more milk to spill or cry over
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Do I have this correctly?
This thread is a whinge because you were not good enough to get into the SAAF and because of that could not get into SAA?
So I guess SAA's troubles are due to the fact that you could not do math and weren't at SAA to keep the arrogant SAA captains from earning huge salaries.......
Interesting logic.
This thread is a whinge because you were not good enough to get into the SAAF and because of that could not get into SAA?
So I guess SAA's troubles are due to the fact that you could not do math and weren't at SAA to keep the arrogant SAA captains from earning huge salaries.......
Interesting logic.
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SAA needs one simple route to make money and that is to:
1. Level the playing field and hire people because they can do the job, not because they are American, Boers or Blacks and hold them accountable for their jobs.
2. Be absolutely 100% privately owned, not a Para State, Semi State, Quasi State or anything
1. Level the playing field and hire people because they can do the job, not because they are American, Boers or Blacks and hold them accountable for their jobs.
2. Be absolutely 100% privately owned, not a Para State, Semi State, Quasi State or anything
But looking backwards is not gonna solve SAA's problems. Right size it and list.
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SAT_BOSS, so you reckon SAA are in trouble just because you did not manage to get in to the comapny?
Sounds more like sour grapes to me!
Sounds more like sour grapes to me!
If you are IN SAA, its your god given right to ride on the tax payers coat tails and bugger the rest of the industry.
If you want to see a healthy airline industry and your NOT IN SAA, its all sour grapes and ur an idiot.
Have I about summed it up or have I missed something?
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I have realised, over the years of Pprune-ing, that an SAA pilot is, according to those who are not in SAA, an overpaid, underworked recipient of some kind of nepotism, who, if not working for SAA would be incapable of holding down a "real" job, mainly because he battles to tie his own shoelaces in the morning.
At the same time, many of the people most interested in SAA, what it pays it's pilots, and how much money it loses, are normally people who do not work for SAA, some have tried to get in, but were turned down (for any of a myriad of reasons), others never even tried, others feel that SAA was responsible for the closures of Sunair, Pheonix, Bopair etc.
It stikes me that the people who should be worrying about SAA, are having to take flak from a bunch of unsuccessful wannabes, and other assorted no-hopers.
So I will enjoy watching the vitirol which shall follow this posting, for it is time to worry about only what you can influence, and I know that I cannot influence the minds of those whose psyche bears a grudge.
At the same time, many of the people most interested in SAA, what it pays it's pilots, and how much money it loses, are normally people who do not work for SAA, some have tried to get in, but were turned down (for any of a myriad of reasons), others never even tried, others feel that SAA was responsible for the closures of Sunair, Pheonix, Bopair etc.
It stikes me that the people who should be worrying about SAA, are having to take flak from a bunch of unsuccessful wannabes, and other assorted no-hopers.
So I will enjoy watching the vitirol which shall follow this posting, for it is time to worry about only what you can influence, and I know that I cannot influence the minds of those whose psyche bears a grudge.
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Skyvan,well fing said.
It amazes me how the biggest SAA bashers on the African Aviation forum are people that have bailed on SA and live overseas. Avi8tor, why are you and your cronies so worried about whats going on here? Are you trying to justify your decision?
Most of us who choose to stay will never begrudge those that want to leave. Everybody has their reasons. But when you leave you give up your right to sit in the sand and throw darts at your old country.YOU'VE LEFT, MOVE ON ALREADY!!!
Dont your regions have their own forums? Go stir st there.
ing said.It amazes me how the biggest SAA bashers on the African Aviation forum are people that have bailed on SA and live overseas. Avi8tor, why are you and your cronies so worried about whats going on here? Are you trying to justify your decision?
Most of us who choose to stay will never begrudge those that want to leave. Everybody has their reasons. But when you leave you give up your right to sit in the sand and throw darts at your old country.YOU'VE LEFT, MOVE ON ALREADY!!!
Dont your regions have their own forums? Go stir s
t there.
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And just because we earn a living somewhere else, that give me NO right as SAA's only shareholder, as I am still a taxpayer and a voter, to voice an opinion?
The fact that you see yourself as representing the whole nation, I find somewhat arrogant. And that to criticize how the state controlled loss maker is in someway unpatriotic?
You champs fail to see is outside your own little self interest. And the fact that SAA is able to totally distort the rest of the industry, is totally lost on you.
We live in a world of globalization. You work for a largely piss pot, state controlled, african loss maker. In a country that has huge social and econonomic challanges coupled with mass unemployment. There is NO shortage of pilots in SA, plenty waiting for your jobs at 1/2 the money.
Sorry friend, barking at the critics wont change the facts. This is not about anti SAA, its about being PRO a healthy aviation industry. Level the playing field, cut the purse strings, let the market decide.
The fact that you see yourself as representing the whole nation, I find somewhat arrogant. And that to criticize how the state controlled loss maker is in someway unpatriotic?
You champs fail to see is outside your own little self interest. And the fact that SAA is able to totally distort the rest of the industry, is totally lost on you.
We live in a world of globalization. You work for a largely piss pot, state controlled, african loss maker. In a country that has huge social and econonomic challanges coupled with mass unemployment. There is NO shortage of pilots in SA, plenty waiting for your jobs at 1/2 the money.
Sorry friend, barking at the critics wont change the facts. This is not about anti SAA, its about being PRO a healthy aviation industry. Level the playing field, cut the purse strings, let the market decide.
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So let me get this straight. You earn your wage in Dubai, but still live in SA. Time to come clean avi8tor. Are you one of the above mentioned pilots? Trying to convince us to leave, to improve your chances. We onto you pal.
Here's a tip,proof read your CV better than your posts.
Here's a tip,proof read your CV better than your posts.
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I also didn't make the SAA cut and resigned myself to the fact almost 15years ago, at the time similar thoughts of "anger" and dissapointment at the percieved favouritism welled thru me...today I am content where I am and actually pleased not to have gone the SAA way, what with all their current and still to come problems.
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Greeson...when are you going to finally come and realize that SAA is not what it used to be and it is not going to be either...the end is near my friend. The conditions at SAA are only going to get worst and worst!!!
Just look all around you, look at the whole of South Africa. Do you see a trend? Are things getting better? Is crime on the decline or has it moved in to the security compounds...sorry estates? Can you even go to a shopping center and feel safe? Are any of your friends leaving for other parts of the world?
I do not think that people that have left need to bash SAA in order to reassure them selves that the right move was to leave, all you need is one newspaper, one drive from the airport.
Just look all around you, look at the whole of South Africa. Do you see a trend? Are things getting better? Is crime on the decline or has it moved in to the security compounds...sorry estates? Can you even go to a shopping center and feel safe? Are any of your friends leaving for other parts of the world?
I do not think that people that have left need to bash SAA in order to reassure them selves that the right move was to leave, all you need is one newspaper, one drive from the airport.