Prescision Air - Bad airmanship
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Prescision Air - Bad airmanship
After flying into DAR the last few months, I've am amazed by the total lack (in general) of airmanship shown by the guys flying for Prescision on the ATR's.
Taxing at V1 seems the order of the day as well as bantering with eachother on frequency.
A new one which got me was hearing them call for taxi when the hadn't even closed the doors! We were just finishing out after start checklist when they called. We then called for taxi and were told by ATC to taxi no.2 to the ATR even though they hadn't even started up yet. Because ATC there is generally fast asleep, we had to sit for a further 5 mins burning JetA1 while they got going.
What will you achieve by this? All you do is delay/annoy other a/c and crews.
I'm sure there are one or two of you guys who do things properly, but in general the attitude towards airmanship displayed by the Prescision crowd sucks
Taxing at V1 seems the order of the day as well as bantering with eachother on frequency.
A new one which got me was hearing them call for taxi when the hadn't even closed the doors! We were just finishing out after start checklist when they called. We then called for taxi and were told by ATC to taxi no.2 to the ATR even though they hadn't even started up yet. Because ATC there is generally fast asleep, we had to sit for a further 5 mins burning JetA1 while they got going.
What will you achieve by this? All you do is delay/annoy other a/c and crews.
I'm sure there are one or two of you guys who do things properly, but in general the attitude towards airmanship displayed by the Prescision crowd sucks
Last edited by LittleMo; 31st Aug 2007 at 10:52. Reason: grammar
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LittleMO
I am glad you brought that subject up, Let me give you some insight.
Precision happen to own Tanzanian Skies or Should I say they are THE national flag Carrier without the flag.
Yes they have the worst airmanship you can ever imagine. They even have a tendency of taking over controlling from the controllers.
I will relate to you one incident where the controller played along with the ATR boys and the guys that suffered were the Zanair fokker drivers.
Precision was advised by the Kilimanjaro Approach Controller to report Right downwind for Runway 09 and to be aware of Traffic established on ILS rwy 09 they acknowledged but after asking who the traffic was and why he was there bla bla bla. The Zanair fokker was on instrument Approach behind the Traffic that was currently on ILS. After the first guy landed Zanair was cleared to land, Precision reoprted RIGHT BASE !
The controller advised Precision to remain clear of Approach path and make a 360 to allow for the fokker to land. Precsion Did that, the fokker landed and while he was on landing roll the Controller asked the Fokker pilot to make it short and vacate the runway as precsion by now was already on final approach (He just couldnt wait) when the controller saw that the fokker went past the second exit he started shouting at the fokker to stop and vacate ! The fokker pilot told him he was a jet not a light aircraft to be able to stop and vacate in such a short distance. The controller asked the fokker to park at the loop mid towards 27 which he did and his excellency Precsion landed, but after that the controller deliberately held the fokker at the loop to allow for 2 more planes (caravans ) to land before allowing the fokker to back track and exit.
In Short The Airmanship at precsion sucks and will remain there is no control. As the controllers play along the game with them.
Infact it is coming to a point where people are stepping on each other on frequency to get priority no matter how important the position report is.
Its Pathetic
One more thing, they dont do that when they fly into Jomokenyatta, I am sure the controllers there would kick their Asses
I am glad you brought that subject up, Let me give you some insight.
Precision happen to own Tanzanian Skies or Should I say they are THE national flag Carrier without the flag.
Yes they have the worst airmanship you can ever imagine. They even have a tendency of taking over controlling from the controllers.
I will relate to you one incident where the controller played along with the ATR boys and the guys that suffered were the Zanair fokker drivers.
Precision was advised by the Kilimanjaro Approach Controller to report Right downwind for Runway 09 and to be aware of Traffic established on ILS rwy 09 they acknowledged but after asking who the traffic was and why he was there bla bla bla
. The Zanair fokker was on instrument Approach behind the Traffic that was currently on ILS. After the first guy landed Zanair was cleared to land, Precision reoprted RIGHT BASE !The controller advised Precision to remain clear of Approach path and make a 360 to allow for the fokker to land. Precsion Did that, the fokker landed and while he was on landing roll the Controller asked the Fokker pilot to make it short and vacate the runway as precsion by now was already on final approach (He just couldnt wait) when the controller saw that the fokker went past the second exit he started shouting at the fokker to stop and vacate ! The fokker pilot told him he was a jet not a light aircraft to be able to stop and vacate in such a short distance. The controller asked the fokker to park at the loop mid towards 27 which he did and his excellency Precsion landed, but after that the controller deliberately held the fokker at the loop to allow for 2 more planes (caravans ) to land before allowing the fokker to back track and exit.
In Short The Airmanship at precsion sucks and will remain there is no control. As the controllers play along the game with them.
Infact it is coming to a point where people are stepping on each other on frequency to get priority no matter how important the position report is.
Its Pathetic
One more thing, they dont do that when they fly into Jomokenyatta, I am sure the controllers there would kick their
Asses
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this prescision pilots will feel at home in lagos,were most pilots banter,with each other collecting info ranging form mobile phone numbers, to "how are the kids",or "what time do you get back ill pop in for a beer"???????????????? all on ATC frequencys
and then the fight and rush to be no 1 at the holding point,often pretending not to hear ATC instructions,or the "lets get descent early about 100nm to be able to be number1"
AIRMANSHIP is a dying thing,ably assisted by lapse regulatory bodies
and then the fight and rush to be no 1 at the holding point,often pretending not to hear ATC instructions,or the "lets get descent early about 100nm to be able to be number1"
AIRMANSHIP is a dying thing,ably assisted by lapse regulatory bodies
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One time I was coming in to Zanzi from Tanga, an ATR-72 was inbound from Mombasa behind me. The controler advised Precision that there was a van in front of him also on a straight in approach. The Captain arrogantly said that he was much faster than the van and would easily be ahead of me.
Well several minutes went by and I still had not seen this ATR, starting to get worried that this guy was coming up right on my ass. I heard him call the tower and ask if it was a 208 or a 406 in front of him, the controler said 208, to which the exasperated ATR captain said "he's very very fast"
He caught up with me in the end, turns out those 72's are not as fast on the descent as the 42's.
Well several minutes went by and I still had not seen this ATR, starting to get worried that this guy was coming up right on my ass. I heard him call the tower and ask if it was a 208 or a 406 in front of him, the controler said 208, to which the exasperated ATR captain said "he's very very fast"
He caught up with me in the end, turns out those 72's are not as fast on the descent as the 42's.
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I equally blame ATC, they dont know aircraft types, it has happened to me in Zanzibar many times, when the KQ guys are inbound and ATC will hold you from landing just at right base of 18 to allow for the 737 to land which is still 10 miles away!
There is also the new VIP flights which has added to the screwup in the system. there has been times one sits for up to 20 mins waiting for the VIP to land or depart
There is also the new VIP flights which has added to the screwup in the system. there has been times one sits for up to 20 mins waiting for the VIP to land or depart
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Was flying the Fokker F28 out of Dar for ATC for 18 months during which time I had filed numerous airmiss reports, ATC indiscretions all resulting in little or no change. It wasn't uncommon to find yourself cleared to land in Dar with another a/c cleared to land on the opposite runway. When I made a comment to ATC on the radio that this might be considered dangerous and what action would he request in the event of a go around for both aircraft! The resulting sounds of silence were deafening. It does make for interesting flying but sadly there is a very real danger that it could start raining aluminium. I pray it never does. I attended many TCAA safety meetings with all the other operators, believing that there was going to be change, but apparently the status remains quo.
So to all my flying colleagues up there, do not hold back - continue to complain, file reports and make noise. Doing nothing could be costly.
Fly safe
So to all my flying colleagues up there, do not hold back - continue to complain, file reports and make noise. Doing nothing could be costly.
Fly safe
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Think that was me one time coming in on 14
You'll be happy to know that they allow more spacing now for use of both runways at the same time. Helps all of us flying the smaller planes when the airspace gets congested and you got about five jets lined up, but still on approach whilst they are six miles final
You'll be happy to know that they allow more spacing now for use of both runways at the same time. Helps all of us flying the smaller planes when the airspace gets congested and you got about five jets lined up, but still on approach whilst they are six miles final
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Yeah Still goes on and on
2 days ago, Precsion pull out a new one, ATR inbound to Kilimanjaro from Mombasa requested straight in rwy 27 the controller refused claiming traffic inbound from the west eta at ..03 the ATR Captain went whats the traffics distance, the controller asked him what his estimate for KV VOR was, he said ..18 The controller said continue approach, somehow the ATR managed to trottle in before the 1900 by 2 mins and landed rwy 27, the 1900 was to report 8 miles, whilst the second ATR on ground requested for TAXI to Zanzibar, he was cleared to taxi to Holding point, then the controller in fear of being blasted by the Captain of the ATR cleared him to line up and takeoff. at that point the 1900 was 3 miles final, the controller with a trembling voice asked the 1900 to approach at minimum speed. The Atr was still lining up and the Captain went full on to the controller, claiming he had put them in a situation and they had not completed the takeoff checklist, Then the controller managed to get himself together and told the ATR pliot that if he had asked them to hold they would have made noise....... there after radio silence and 1900 cleared to land !
2 days ago, Precsion pull out a new one, ATR inbound to Kilimanjaro from Mombasa requested straight in rwy 27 the controller refused claiming traffic inbound from the west eta at ..03 the ATR Captain went whats the traffics distance, the controller asked him what his estimate for KV VOR was, he said ..18 The controller said continue approach, somehow the ATR managed to trottle in before the 1900 by 2 mins and landed rwy 27, the 1900 was to report 8 miles, whilst the second ATR on ground requested for TAXI to Zanzibar, he was cleared to taxi to Holding point, then the controller in fear of being blasted by the Captain of the ATR cleared him to line up and takeoff. at that point the 1900 was 3 miles final, the controller with a trembling voice asked the 1900 to approach at minimum speed. The Atr was still lining up and the Captain went full on to the controller, claiming he had put them in a situation and they had not completed the takeoff checklist, Then the controller managed to get himself together and told the ATR pliot that if he had asked them to hold they would have made noise....... there after radio silence and 1900 cleared to land !
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Does anyone have details for the chief pilot or safety officer at Prescision? I'd like to pop him a mail. Though, perhaps his pilots are just a reflection on himself?
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Yeah things havent changed down there. Just a quick one, coming into Mwanza on day in a Kingair that had only been around for a few days, so they were not aware of it.
MZA ATC: Prescision 123 whats your distance?
P: 55 miles
ATC: (to us) whats your distance 50 miles.
About two minutes later......
ATC: P whats your distance now?
P: 36 miles.
Me: So whats your groundspeed?
P:265
ME: Well we are on descent doing 310, so how did you overtake us? Didnt know you guys were operating jets now.
Didnt get much of a response to my taunting.....guess who landed first
MZA ATC: Prescision 123 whats your distance?
P: 55 miles
ATC: (to us) whats your distance 50 miles.
About two minutes later......
ATC: P whats your distance now?
P: 36 miles.
Me: So whats your groundspeed?
P:265
ME: Well we are on descent doing 310, so how did you overtake us? Didnt know you guys were operating jets now.
Didnt get much of a response to my taunting.....guess who landed first
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Ah so many stories, suprised the thread is not bigger, We all recall the LET-410 phase out program, went rather sucesfully.
Dar is at least better for not favouring them too much unlike kili, best thing is to question the controlers, I know it's frowned upon, but out here with all the training Tanzania does for all the other countries you got to be on your toe's. We got a few good one's here who know how to fit all the bits together.
Went to Malawi, that was a nightmare, told to maintian 4000 agl, and get on the ILS at four miles, only problem was ILS was on the other side of the runway, in the mean time had Malawian ATR ciming in under me visually whilst I was full on IR. Passed over field broke out and had to circle round visually since ILS was dancing all over.
Rule of thumb it always worse some place else, if it isn't then what are you doing there.
If precision gives you grief, give them some back, off course within legal limits.
I still recall a wonderfull and colourfull conversation between ATC at Kili, a C404 and an ATR, God I wish I had a recording of that. 404 pilot penalised Precision nothing.
Only in Africa
Dar is at least better for not favouring them too much unlike kili, best thing is to question the controlers, I know it's frowned upon, but out here with all the training Tanzania does for all the other countries you got to be on your toe's. We got a few good one's here who know how to fit all the bits together.
Went to Malawi, that was a nightmare, told to maintian 4000 agl, and get on the ILS at four miles, only problem was ILS was on the other side of the runway, in the mean time had Malawian ATR ciming in under me visually whilst I was full on IR. Passed over field broke out and had to circle round visually since ILS was dancing all over.
Rule of thumb it always worse some place else, if it isn't then what are you doing there.
If precision gives you grief, give them some back, off course within legal limits.
I still recall a wonderfull and colourfull conversation between ATC at Kili, a C404 and an ATR, God I wish I had a recording of that. 404 pilot penalised Precision nothing.
Only in Africa
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Had another one yeterday at DAR. While i was requesting start and giving my details to ground etc, the Prescision ATR parked next to me just tarts broadcasting to tower for taxi instructions. Then ground asks me to say again, Off he goes with another taxi request. It's not as if he couldn't hear me as I was parked next to the arrogant
He then gets taxi instructions and promptly lines up on RWY05 without clearance to do so. No problem though because the tower just clears him to line up and takeoff although he is already on the active rwy
He then gets taxi instructions and promptly lines up on RWY05 without clearance to do so. No problem though because the tower just clears him to line up and takeoff although he is already on the active rwy
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Do you think somebody from Precision actually reads these posts? Is it that they just don't care about not having any airmanship and acting unprofessional? I would be embarrassed if anybody knew who I was flying for them.....
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Ohhhh Men What A Joke
I wonder how those ATR pilots would fair in the likes of JFK, or O'hare or even Reagan National. If there is one thing I cannot stand, it has to be an arrogant pilot. What's even more ironic is that the arrogant ones think they got it going on only to have a rude awakening when they come across the big boys. I guess I will see them at FL 350.......oh but then again, they don't get that high.....they are ATR'S.
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Hey big man, so what is your point becuase I do not get it.
Yes I clearly said that I had the time I stated and since I got my CPL with 260TT, why do you not do the math and use some common sense and reasoning. And No I am not a rocket scientist and I DO NOT fly the space shuttle.
Yes I clearly said that I had the time I stated and since I got my CPL with 260TT, why do you not do the math and use some common sense and reasoning. And No I am not a rocket scientist and I DO NOT fly the space shuttle.
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let the sloggong begin
hi guys.
pity u guys are wasting good writting skills discussing "tanzania's finest" cause i know for sure none of those bone heads flying for them ever bother to read these columns purely because they are busy logging 9-10hrs of flying time everyday...at the time of writting this most of them have applied to join the original national flag carrier on the dash8 fleet..so help us god,same skies,same bone heads just different aircraft..
keep em up there fellows,
no more 406pilot
ps:cheers mo all the best in ur future endeavours
pity u guys are wasting good writting skills discussing "tanzania's finest" cause i know for sure none of those bone heads flying for them ever bother to read these columns purely because they are busy logging 9-10hrs of flying time everyday...at the time of writting this most of them have applied to join the original national flag carrier on the dash8 fleet..so help us god,same skies,same bone heads just different aircraft..
keep em up there fellows,
no more 406pilot
ps:cheers mo all the best in ur future endeavours
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Precision Air Tanznia
Got to agree with most of what has been posted-we call them the Tanzanian cowboys-they do not know the meaning of airmanship!
I have had some run ins with Precision and found them to be pushy and arrogant. Their cabin service should be checked by the health authorities and the Tanzanian airport Authorities should install an x-ray machine at
Kigoma. Last time,security was opening all luggage for a physical search
in full view of the public-I refused and said that I would undergo a full baggage search in private, this was then done to my satisfaction in a separate room. All the other pax had their personal belongings taken out and rummaged through in full view of the public!
Also dont expect your baggage, Precision has taken to removing baggage from a flight in favour of loading up with passengers-YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!! If I could find a reliable donkey I would rather use that.
I have had some run ins with Precision and found them to be pushy and arrogant. Their cabin service should be checked by the health authorities and the Tanzanian airport Authorities should install an x-ray machine at
Kigoma. Last time,security was opening all luggage for a physical search
in full view of the public-I refused and said that I would undergo a full baggage search in private, this was then done to my satisfaction in a separate room. All the other pax had their personal belongings taken out and rummaged through in full view of the public!
Also dont expect your baggage, Precision has taken to removing baggage from a flight in favour of loading up with passengers-YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!! If I could find a reliable donkey I would rather use that.
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precision
hi guys.
just to add salt on your wounds, pw is amongst the first airlines to pass an iosa audit, how tht happened only they knw perhaps the kq umberella came in handy,anyways the rumour goes their cowboys are soon gonna get a jet to play around in and then we really gonna get it...
keep them up there fellows,
no more 406pilot
just to add salt on your wounds, pw is amongst the first airlines to pass an iosa audit, how tht happened only they knw perhaps the kq umberella came in handy,anyways the rumour goes their cowboys are soon gonna get a jet to play around in and then we really gonna get it...
keep them up there fellows,
no more 406pilot