Prepared to work for Nothing!!!!!!

[flaps 15 3 green]

Are you a slave? Would you like to be one? With comments like that you're sure to be on the band wagon soon enough! Do you bend over when people ask?

[cougar77]

IRP
I with you on this one too....the way we work is similar in nature.

[SIC]

Volante - get a life - and while you' re at it why don't you look up " sense of humour" somewhere. And then despair - cause its something you will never have.

15 - This is obviously a cheap wind up by you. Lots of guys have done what you propose and it might or might not work. But I can guarantee you you will not get positive comments about your plan for prostitution here - rather go and ask the slimeballs who 'manage' aviation companies - they are obviously the one's you want to get screwed by. So why ask us?

[JetPark]

Good comment there SIC. I think he is winding everyone up - he's got to be - he can't be serious. If he is - he's in trouble and sure has a lot to learn. But then we all learned along the way and thank heavens for a sense of humour which is what gets most people through life.

This is a fun thread. Have you got anything else for us up your sleeve when this one runs out Volante?

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

Fun?

This is a fun thread."""
Good JetPark go back to the strato.. where you belong and get some helio so you can have more fun and stop to be the sokker it is just disgusting.


get a life """
SIC I got your life at the moment , Why shall I have to have another one ? this is fun.Any time you get back to me in this forum I get your time ... your LIFE.

Another question
Why you .... worry about me and do not help that guy that is looking for an answer?
Tell him how you Guys did you get you firstjob.How much did you sock....despite other pilos? How many others piots did you STAB on the back and destroy their carrer in aviation in orther for you to get your JOB?ID PIrates is the Master on this matter .
This is FUN real fun
Sincerely Riccardo Volante

[I.R.PIRATE]

The fun Ritardo, is trying to figure out what on earth you are trying to say.

Luckily there are language proficiency checks on their way, so I wont worry too much about having to try and decypher WTF you are trying to say in the air. If your spoken engrish is anything like your written word, you are a hazard to aviation and need to be banished to outer mongolia.

[helldog]

Riccardo, where is your sense of humour? Mate in the past you have said some really stupid things, I always gave you the benefit of the doubt and figured that you were just upset at not being able to find work. I thought somehow deep down you might just be a decent bloke. But no you have once again a proven to be miserable My last bit of advice to you is dont take yourself so seriously, grow a sense of humour and stop giving people sh!t for no reason.

[JetPark]

Volante, my dear friend, you posted a question and to which I made the first reply. That was the answer to your quest for advice. If you then read what follows, you will see just how nicley I had put it originally but yet you continue to make a fool of yourself despite all the other responses to your post. Have you not yet got the message? But, like I say, it's fun anyway. Sadly, these days, I get little opportunity to remain in the stratosphere as the business end of my business keeps me on dear mother earth. I did give advice - 30 years of it my mate. I shall continue to take a look at your responses - helps me get over the last account I got from the maintenance guys on my aircraft.

[Deskjocky]

Volante, I would suggest you skip across to the fly Africa forum, perhaps they will have an appetite for your special view of the world.

[passionforflying]

15SQN,

hmmm.... flying for nothing...? I believe this has been answered now in this thread. Though, to be honest, a similar question seems to follow you during your whole aviation career..... eg. shall I pay for my next rating in order to maybe speed up my career.....? I am convinced most pilots have asked themselves this question several times during their career, so in a way the same thing really.
But this is not why I am answering to this thread. I think it might be rather tricky to get yourself a work permit in S.A. if you aren t South African. I remember to have answered you to another thread a while ago when you were asking about caravan rating and job opportunities in Botswana.
The same should apply for South Africa I'd assume. It's probably rather unlikely that someone would hire you ( paid or not) to fly their caravan until you ve got around 1000 hrs simply for the fact that the insurance costs to cover you will be too high.
Unless you start on the right hand seat of a caravan. In fact there are plenty of jobs on ZS registered aircraft going at the moment doing contract flying in neighbouring African countries.
Starting salaries might be slightly better than in Botswana.
So you might be able to "queue-jump" the little pistons you don t seem to like, but unfortunately there is no way to "queue-jump" these essential first 1000 hrs of experience. And I do believe, building this experience as single crew , especially in little "elderly piston aircraft" will put you ahead of the queue in the long run. Also remember, Multi crew on the caravan has been debated for a long time and you'll definately will have to sit on the right hand seat for a very long time in order to log enough hours for your next higher license as correctly you can only count half of them towards it.
I ve done both, the contract flying and the Okavango Delta in Botswana. If you ask me, take your money so you can top up your salary if you have to and have a most phantastic year in Botswana and gain enough experience, so that after a year, the choice is yours.
Good luck.

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

That is a good post

passionforflying ,
That is a good post ,good answers,realistic and intelligent.I am with you.
Regards
Riccardo Volante

[15SQN]

Thanks PFF
I agree I think this has been answered and I appreciate all the responses here. It is a huge commitment leaving family and kids behind to pursue a dream and perhaps there are no short cuts in this line of work
I guess a more positive follow on from this thread would be something like “where are you now in your career, how did you get there and if you did it again would you change your approach and how” but perhaps we keep that for a rainy day
Thanks to all who responded

[SIC]

15

When I was doing my com there were no work and we were all despondent. However through determination and never doing any flying for free or paying for a rating ( I did pay a bond - partially - when I left one company for another ) I have gone from single pistons to a major airline in six years. In that time I instructed at several schools, worked for two charter companies and a corporate and am now in my third airline job - hopefully the last one. I sent easily a hundred CV's over this time and flew an average of 900 hours a year for the last 5 years.

That is how you do it.

[cargodoor]

I would never work for nothing. There are however the companies out there that you can get jobs with at your stage that pay you to fly their caravan (if that is the aircraft you want to try and start your carreer on). If you have a SA com then maybe try something like FEDAIR where i think you will be right hand seat on the van for a while and then move to the left. If you go to somewhare like maun you will start on the 206 and then move onto the van in about a year or so any way and you will have logged all PIC time single engine.

In my small opinion i would go for the PIC time in maun. you will get bonded in maun but if you fulfil your contract you won't have to pay a cent and you will get paid a salary and you will come out of there with about 2000 hours, all single PIC time with some turbine hours in the logbook. Not such a bad deal if you look at it in comparison to wanting to work for free. do the research though and see what works for you. read PFF post, it makes a lot of sense.

CD

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Paying to fly for a company like Fedair merely opens the door for companies to further screw pilots. Want a job? Then pay us. Oh, and when your money runs out (or even before then) the next guy in line gets your job, and in the long run you've made a company very happy by maximising their profits but you've screwed yourself and your mates.

RV

Opposable thumbs giving you a little trouble, boet?

Full throttle, dry tank...

[mc001]

I can see guys can get very aggressive on this site, or maybe i should say passionate!

Unfortuantly I cant answer the question will an employer take you on if you offer your services as I only fly for fun but i thought I would add to the debate.

I cant see why the following scenrio is not valid.

Pilot A - leaves school, enjoys life at 21 finishes comm, does instructors for a couple of years, the goes to a charter in africa flying C182 for another couple of years and moves on etc, lifes good.

Pilot B -same passion as flying as pilot A, marries young, has a child, works in job he used to like, is 28 and hates his proffession (let say plumbing proffession). Still has a mortgage, wife and child. Convinces wife flying is a passion and finnally she agrees he can spend their savings on the dream. Pays for comm, is 29 and desperate for a job. has 50k left in the bank of savings, still has to pay all his bills and so far is not silver spooned as some might imply.

Desperate for job still some money in the bank, wants to convert on a caravan and start his career he ask employers for work expierence and he will finanicially support himself. He clocks up the hours which makes him more marketable. Company either gives him a job seeing hes' a good egg, or ..

Job come out, most have 100hrs carvan. Pilot A doesnt have but pilot b does. Why is their an issue?

This doesnt mean he devalues himself like quoted, practical and dedicated and finnally his career take offs and passion resumed.

Does anyone remember work experience and apprentiships?

[Solid Rust Twotter]

The difference being that Pilot B is selfishly depriving someone of a salary by paying for his hours while working. In the long run he screws himself and the industry in that it becomes unnecessary to hire crews if you can get low time cojoes to fly for free, and even pay for their hours.

At the end of the day with 350 hours TT and 100 in C208, you're still a low time cojoe that is unemployable because the next low time cojoe is happy to pay the company to have your job. If you do get a job, the T&Cs will be severely reduced because they're doing you a favour by paying you when they can get someone else for free.

As for garnering any respect from your colleagues, try elsewhere. Any self respecting chief pilot with the crews' interests at heart will hesitate to employ someone who is willing to screw his colleagues to shortcut the system.

Cause and effect...

[mc001]

If the flying industry was a chivalrous industry I would agree. With friends in the industry I see them getting screwed by their employers and not coming from the industry it looks like they are abused by their employers.
It looks like respect takes a back burner by the cheif pilot. It a simple question 100TT on type X or no need to apply. Dont you agree? I am assuming this is for insurance etc.

[putt for dough]

pay as you go = a no no

[Solid Rust Twotter]

You'll notice I wrote "...self respecting chief pilot with the crews' interests at heart...". A company man who thinks shafting the crews is OK will probably have no problem with the damage it does to the industry. Just remember, Pilot B will also be part of that industry with it's ever eroding T&Cs, said erosion to which he has in no small measure contributed.

As for having 100 on type, why should they hire that person when they can get someone with zero on type who will pay them to work for them? 100 on type means nothing. You're still deep in the monkey hours while the next person is excluding you from employment by paying to do the job you want.

With friends in the industry I see them getting screwed by their employers and not coming from the industry it looks like they are abused by their employers.

They're getting screwed because employers just have to kick over a rock to find a dozen pilots willing to shaft their colleagues in this manner. The only winners here are the employers as long as crews are prepared to succumb to these practices.