Prepared to work for Nothing!!!!!!
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No Way
Check this out. Never ever accept to work for nothing. WHY?
Companies will get the idea that there are people out there willing to work for nothing and as a result will have very bad offers for pilots. And if anyone turns down the offer, the airline or operater will let you know that they can find someone to work for free.
Result is that it will turn around and bite you in the butt. Once you have your rating and experience, you will go up for a job interview with other applicants, but guess what? The other applicants will be willing to work for free. AND THEN YOU ARE SCREWED!
Later
Companies will get the idea that there are people out there willing to work for nothing and as a result will have very bad offers for pilots. And if anyone turns down the offer, the airline or operater will let you know that they can find someone to work for free.
Result is that it will turn around and bite you in the butt. Once you have your rating and experience, you will go up for a job interview with other applicants, but guess what? The other applicants will be willing to work for free. AND THEN YOU ARE SCREWED!
Later
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Prepared to work for Nothing!!!!!!
Hi 15SQN,
May I offer the following advice.
Ignore all cyncal,nasty, "smart" negative posts they are made by a small minority.
By all means come to SA and enroll with one of the reputable schools.
Plan A
Step 1 CPL
2 IR
3 C206/210 Type rating
4 C208 Rating
You should be able to get a job in the right seat of caravan
Plan B
Step 1 CPL
2 Grade 3 instructor rating
You should be able to get a job at a flight school
The afforementoned assumes that you are able to obtain the neccessary work permits.
Plan C
In the not to distant future legislation (NEW PART 61 CARS) will come into effect whereby a prospective carreer pilot will be able to:
Enroll at an approved training organization
Study and pass the ATP examnaions
Be issued with a student pilots licence
Be issued with a night rating
Be issued with an instrument rating on the student pilots licence
After 150 hours be issued with a CPL
Then from the time that the instrument rating is issued you will have 5 years to achieve the hours require for the issue of the ATP.
It is not an easy road. It is not an impossible road. It requires dedication and a passion for aeroplanes and all matters connected to aviation .
Do not let the cynics put you off. In africa we have a saying:
How do you eat an elephant?...... slowly one bite at a time.
South Africa is an awesome place to commit aviation. Weather is generally good. Lots of unrestricted airspaces. Great people.
Yes, like any other place on earth we have the negative aspects.However as a prospective pilot one has to learn to manage the risks.
Whatever you do NEVER work for nothing.
Cheers
May I offer the following advice.
Ignore all cyncal,nasty, "smart" negative posts they are made by a small minority.
By all means come to SA and enroll with one of the reputable schools.
Plan A
Step 1 CPL
2 IR
3 C206/210 Type rating
4 C208 Rating
You should be able to get a job in the right seat of caravan
Plan B
Step 1 CPL
2 Grade 3 instructor rating
You should be able to get a job at a flight school
The afforementoned assumes that you are able to obtain the neccessary work permits.
Plan C
In the not to distant future legislation (NEW PART 61 CARS) will come into effect whereby a prospective carreer pilot will be able to:
Enroll at an approved training organization
Study and pass the ATP examnaions
Be issued with a student pilots licence
Be issued with a night rating
Be issued with an instrument rating on the student pilots licence
After 150 hours be issued with a CPL
Then from the time that the instrument rating is issued you will have 5 years to achieve the hours require for the issue of the ATP.
It is not an easy road. It is not an impossible road. It requires dedication and a passion for aeroplanes and all matters connected to aviation .
Do not let the cynics put you off. In africa we have a saying:
How do you eat an elephant?...... slowly one bite at a time.
South Africa is an awesome place to commit aviation. Weather is generally good. Lots of unrestricted airspaces. Great people.
Yes, like any other place on earth we have the negative aspects.However as a prospective pilot one has to learn to manage the risks.
Whatever you do NEVER work for nothing.
Cheers
Join Date: May 2002
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To those of you thinking of flying for free,
I remember thinking exactly the same thing when I started out. I had a job working as an office boy for a charter company but I was desperate to have a flying job. I had a comm and a promise that I will get my chance. I'll never forget reading about a 206 job up in Maun but you needed 300 hours and I had a fresh comm - oh the desperation. I wanted to call up and say, hey how about if I fly for free! I didn't though.
I stuck at it and eventually got my flying job, now not that many years later I'm only a year or three away from command on a widebody. Now I can't believe that I even contemplated flying for free.
Hang in there and follow some of the good advice blokes like 340 have given.
Whatever you do NEVER work for nothing.
W2
I remember thinking exactly the same thing when I started out. I had a job working as an office boy for a charter company but I was desperate to have a flying job. I had a comm and a promise that I will get my chance. I'll never forget reading about a 206 job up in Maun but you needed 300 hours and I had a fresh comm - oh the desperation. I wanted to call up and say, hey how about if I fly for free! I didn't though.
I stuck at it and eventually got my flying job, now not that many years later I'm only a year or three away from command on a widebody. Now I can't believe that I even contemplated flying for free.
Hang in there and follow some of the good advice blokes like 340 have given.
Whatever you do NEVER work for nothing.
W2
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cause of sh
t like this we get Raped in the industry!!!! Which is absolute HogWash!!! Thats why there are CPL pilots working for R2000.00 a month which in my opinion is wrong!!!, the unions should put a stop to crap like that and really earn their money!!!!
t like this we get Raped in the industry!!!! Which is absolute HogWash!!! Thats why there are CPL pilots working for R2000.00 a month which in my opinion is wrong!!!, the unions should put a stop to crap like that and really earn their money!!!!
Last edited by flyingoose; 9th Jul 2007 at 18:19.
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Prepared to work for Nothing!!!!!!
Hey Hey !! take it easy....the kids just asking a question.
"Flingnoose" do you eat with the same mouth that you speak with.
If you presented that kind of attitude and language on my flight deck, the standby would be called out before you completed the Before Start Checklist to the line.
Sheezz.....the industry is really scraping the bottom of the Barrel. What ever happened to the "officer and gentleman"
"Flingnoose" do you eat with the same mouth that you speak with.
If you presented that kind of attitude and language on my flight deck, the standby would be called out before you completed the Before Start Checklist to the line.
Sheezz.....the industry is really scraping the bottom of the Barrel. What ever happened to the "officer and gentleman"
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short changed
Sad to say, but I think that Unions are a thing of the past. Companies will do anything now a days to get rid of unions, including shutting the airline down and re-opening under a different name. It's a big fashion going on in the caribbean at the moment, hence the exodus of pilots to the middle east and africa.
I watched my father's generation at the top of their games when you worked for a couple companies in your lifetime and it wasn't uncommon to have guys fly for 39 years with the same airline and retire. Those days are gone, it's now up to you to see about yourself. Everyone has individual contracts and packages. It seems like they're trying to break the spirit of the pilot. If there's one thing I've learned about this industry it may not be that people will work for free but someone will always be willing to do it for cheaper!
SO, DO NOT SELL YOURSELF SHORT!
I watched my father's generation at the top of their games when you worked for a couple companies in your lifetime and it wasn't uncommon to have guys fly for 39 years with the same airline and retire. Those days are gone, it's now up to you to see about yourself. Everyone has individual contracts and packages. It seems like they're trying to break the spirit of the pilot. If there's one thing I've learned about this industry it may not be that people will work for free but someone will always be willing to do it for cheaper!
SO, DO NOT SELL YOURSELF SHORT!
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Hey 15SQN sorry about getting worked up about this topic,bad day at work! its just that its a situation that affects loads of us in SA, with companies taking advantage of this low pay or no pay situation regarding flying!, Many of us have gone through what you going through regarding that first job but its no excuse to work for nothing otherwise the industry is going to carry on the way its been taking advantage of people who have spent hard money and hard working hours to get a CPL only to realise that they going to be paid absolutely nothing!! Any how good luck with that 1st job and hope you do not have to go through what some have had to put up with
! with regards to ZS340 you probably sitting on a cushy job at SAA and have never had to do hard flying for crap money! Easy to talk when you sitting at airways not affected by this situation! By the way wrong attitude"my flightdeck",good CRM!
! with regards to ZS340 you probably sitting on a cushy job at SAA and have never had to do hard flying for crap money! Easy to talk when you sitting at airways not affected by this situation! By the way wrong attitude"my flightdeck",good CRM!
Last edited by flyingoose; 9th Jul 2007 at 18:47.
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I agree with all that say nobody should ever work for free, screws everthing up.
BUT: Aren't all full time employees, airline or otherwise, doing the odd charter/instruction screwing somebody else that make a living out of freelancing,(building hours). ???
I know there is a lot of guys earning double salaries and more just because insurance company's req high time left seat guys which are't always available but from airlines, ect.
I suppose it is a bit of a moral question every man must decide on:" Do I earning R 50 000 a month do it AND is there nobody else QUALIFIED that NEEDS it."
Just wondering about all the screwing????
BUT: Aren't all full time employees, airline or otherwise, doing the odd charter/instruction screwing somebody else that make a living out of freelancing,(building hours). ???
I know there is a lot of guys earning double salaries and more just because insurance company's req high time left seat guys which are't always available but from airlines, ect.
I suppose it is a bit of a moral question every man must decide on:" Do I earning R 50 000 a month do it AND is there nobody else QUALIFIED that NEEDS it."
Just wondering about all the screwing????
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Categorisation...
I remember once hearing from one of our "legends in his own mind" about how clever he had been paying for his own HS-125 type-rating, since this allowed him to jump the queue for getting on the type from the Twin Otter.
I got a bit huffy and told him he was just a whore. Then I had a quick re-think and said that, no, he was giving it away and ruining things for his fellow hard-working aviation whores, people like me. "I sell it and you are here giving it away! Where would we be if we were all expected to do our own type-ratings?" "Screwed" is where, of course.
He did get on the 125, yes. Then a funny thing happened: all the people he had climbed over and shat upon caught up with him and basically paid him back in his own coin so that he ended up back on the Twin Otter. When I met him again he was not quite so chirpy about the choices he had made. Then he died in a Twin Otter crash, which brought that little soap opera to a sudden end.
One very odd thing I have noticed is that people give you respect according to what you are paid. I don't know why that is; I feel like the same person I was when I was on good wages but now I find these little piss-ant people coming up and expecting me to kowtow, as if my self-respect had gone along with the good pay. Lucky for me the obvious solution came along, to take a better-paying job. Otherwise I was going to be stuck with a permanent conflict between who I am (or perhaps just who I think I am) and who people think I am, not a recipe for happiness.
To work for nothing would suggest that you would be treated like scum. From a start like that how would you expect to get to a position of respect? That crummy beginning would hang on you like a North Korean suit. You would always be known as "The Guy Who Worked for Nothing," and aviation is a very small world.
I got a bit huffy and told him he was just a whore. Then I had a quick re-think and said that, no, he was giving it away and ruining things for his fellow hard-working aviation whores, people like me. "I sell it and you are here giving it away! Where would we be if we were all expected to do our own type-ratings?" "Screwed" is where, of course.
He did get on the 125, yes. Then a funny thing happened: all the people he had climbed over and shat upon caught up with him and basically paid him back in his own coin so that he ended up back on the Twin Otter. When I met him again he was not quite so chirpy about the choices he had made. Then he died in a Twin Otter crash, which brought that little soap opera to a sudden end.
One very odd thing I have noticed is that people give you respect according to what you are paid. I don't know why that is; I feel like the same person I was when I was on good wages but now I find these little piss-ant people coming up and expecting me to kowtow, as if my self-respect had gone along with the good pay. Lucky for me the obvious solution came along, to take a better-paying job. Otherwise I was going to be stuck with a permanent conflict between who I am (or perhaps just who I think I am) and who people think I am, not a recipe for happiness.
To work for nothing would suggest that you would be treated like scum. From a start like that how would you expect to get to a position of respect? That crummy beginning would hang on you like a North Korean suit. You would always be known as "The Guy Who Worked for Nothing," and aviation is a very small world.
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Quoting 340:
"If you presented that kind of attitude and language on my flight deck, the standby would be called out before you completed the Before Start Checklist to the line."
My my - bet you're a real pleasure to fly with officer.
"If you presented that kind of attitude and language on my flight deck, the standby would be called out before you completed the Before Start Checklist to the line."
My my - bet you're a real pleasure to fly with officer.
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Other Options
To placate the whining pilots who already have cushy jobs and are to stingy to invest in their own future - yeah those of you who sit in Vans, King Airs and the like, bitching about high Airline salaries and having to work as an admin clerk hoping to get a flight 
- there are a few other alternatives you might want to investigate. They are by no means cheap, but it will give you a leg up in an otherwise difficult industry.
Go to www.atpflightschool.com for a look-see. It basically involves paying to fly as a co-pilot in the States to build time and experience in an airline environment. So that when an airline eventually hires you they don't have to spend time training the bush pilot out you. Personally I fail to see how washing a/c or working as an admin clerk is any better than flying for free (at least it's flying). I personally followed the so-called "honourable route", but now regret not having followed the "dark side" as my career would have been much further along. So good luck in whatever path you choose - get in now as hopefully there will be a great shortage of pilots soon! (Yeah right)
PS: If you fly for free for a limited time it allows the company to pay the rest of the pilots more - so a win-win really!
- there are a few other alternatives you might want to investigate. They are by no means cheap, but it will give you a leg up in an otherwise difficult industry. Go to www.atpflightschool.com for a look-see. It basically involves paying to fly as a co-pilot in the States to build time and experience in an airline environment. So that when an airline eventually hires you they don't have to spend time training the bush pilot out you. Personally I fail to see how washing a/c or working as an admin clerk is any better than flying for free (at least it's flying). I personally followed the so-called "honourable route", but now regret not having followed the "dark side" as my career would have been much further along. So good luck in whatever path you choose - get in now as hopefully there will be a great shortage of pilots soon! (Yeah right)
PS: If you fly for free for a limited time it allows the company to pay the rest of the pilots more - so a win-win really!
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Utter BS, it allows the company to pocket more cash! it will not go to the other crew. To advance your career by bying hrs! where does it end? flying a 747 for free to build up heavy time? We work to get money to buy food to get energy to go to work again and maybe invest a bit too!
Dog
PS, Kingairs are paying a lot better than airlines
Dog
PS, Kingairs are paying a lot better than airlines
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More a/c
More cash - buy more airplanes.
More airplanes - more jobs.
More jobs - More pilots.
More pilots - less grumpy contract pilots.
King Air do pay more than some airlines, but hell are the pilots grumpy and greedy.
More airplanes - more jobs.
More jobs - More pilots.
More pilots - less grumpy contract pilots.
King Air do pay more than some airlines, but hell are the pilots grumpy and greedy.
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More cash = buy more 4x4s, holiday homes, mistresses and so on.
More airplanes due to passenger demand = more jobs but you won't get paid for them following the route you suggest.
More jobs = more pilots required but conditions being eroded due to twonks prepared to fly for free/pay for hours.
More pilots = flooded market with even more twonks prepared to fly for free/pay for hours thus value of crew reduced, therefore more erosion of T&Cs.
More airplanes due to passenger demand = more jobs but you won't get paid for them following the route you suggest.
More jobs = more pilots required but conditions being eroded due to twonks prepared to fly for free/pay for hours.
More pilots = flooded market with even more twonks prepared to fly for free/pay for hours thus value of crew reduced, therefore more erosion of T&Cs.
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So why not start up a company that actually pays the pilots huge salaries with great benefits flying the brightest and newest equipment on the market? That way you'll have ALL the best pilots in the country working for you and you'll make the millions so that you too can buy a few new cars and holiday homes. Or has SAA beaten you to the line.
Or maybe put something in to get something out?
Then again flying a Twotter is much more fun than flying an A340.
Or has SAA beaten you to the line.Or maybe put something in to get something out?
Then again flying a Twotter is much more fun than flying an A340.
