Yelling Captains Need To Go!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yelling Captains Need To Go!
found this active discussion thread on Airliners.net.... http://www.airliners.net/discussions....main/3411379/
Its not "local" but still very relevant..as many of us have encounterd this in our career path...
Some dumb captain that was yelling his lungs out cost a regional a good pilot. A friend who was in training with a major regional airline was let go because of some stupid behavior of a training captain. This guy demanded to be called 'sir' all the time and he commented that these pilots in training were nothing but worthless piece of dung. (he used the word sh!t).
This is again, similar to my experience on a different regional where the training captain used profanities and he was also condescending on my ethnicity.
This is not 1940s or 50s. They have to open their minds and do what they are supposed to do: train.
This is again, similar to my experience on a different regional where the training captain used profanities and he was also condescending on my ethnicity.
This is not 1940s or 50s. They have to open their minds and do what they are supposed to do: train.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Africa
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ag Shame!
There's always two sides to a story, some people don't hear so well and maybe a bit of volume was needed to get through selective hearing! Oh the pilot ego..... so fragile!
Give use a bit more gen. Was this person prepared, was he listening and following instruction, or was he wasting peoples time, money and effort!
Give use a bit more gen. Was this person prepared, was he listening and following instruction, or was he wasting peoples time, money and effort!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SA
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I thought this was a rumour network! Now it appears to be a boring whinge channel for little boys who cry when the teacher raises his/her voice. Grow up for ###'s sake and suck it up-maybe the TC needed to kick your sorry little a.se as he felt you probably were'nt the Sky God you thought you were!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Out of a suitcase..
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Regardless of what the other side of the story is.. There is no need to breakdown the crew coordination to the point of yelling. Bad business. Very unprofessional of the TC. As far as being called "Sir"... What a joke.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SA
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anyone who demands to be called captain or sir has a terrible ego problem and hasn't yet come to understand that respect is earned and not demanded. Secondly call me a worthless piece of sh!t and I will slap him/her so hard they will feel it till next week. Shouting may be excused in the case of urgency as a stress release mechanism but other than that unacceptable at any time.
Clearly someone that has a huge inferiority problem and needs some serious help..maybe a boot up the arse.
Clearly someone that has a huge inferiority problem and needs some serious help..maybe a boot up the arse.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: DAR
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
poor TC. Perhaps the age difference would shed more light to this. Respect is earned but from those who may not wish to show it, it maybe demanded.
Shouting is a no no. Maybe in a military camp.
Just lending an African touch to it.
Shouting is a no no. Maybe in a military camp.
Just lending an African touch to it.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The wrong side of town.
Posts: 193
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Suitcaseman pray do drop us a further snippet of wisdom !
IMHO if anyone has to raise their voice in a cockpit they're a cr@p captain, if one was a good captain one would naturally command the respect and attention of one's subordinates / students.
IMHO if anyone has to raise their voice in a cockpit they're a cr@p captain, if one was a good captain one would naturally command the respect and attention of one's subordinates / students.
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: South Africa
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If I read the original post correctly, a guy was let go (in other words failed his training) because a training captain shouted at him.
Methinks, some excuses were looked for and found.....
Methinks, some excuses were looked for and found.....
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: home
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
in extreme sucumstances the tc must say calmly but firmly " I HAVE CONTROL".
shouting and yelling causes only tensions and bad feelings.
at least that is what they teach in crm classes.
shouting and yelling causes only tensions and bad feelings.
at least that is what they teach in crm classes.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unfortunate Garbage
When i read the posts of some pilots, it becomes increasingly obvious that some of us were either not trained well or at all.
Regardless of circumstance in training, with the exception of an emergency situation, IT IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE for a training captain to yell at a student!!!!!! Period! It shows a complete lack of basic instructional technique, C.R.M., abuse of office and total ignorance with regards safety.
Students react differently to individual instructors; some improve under pressure and some break up under the same conditions. Yelling is so 1950's, it makes me sick to think pilots still exist that would create excuses for this sort of 'BAD BEHAVIOR'!!!
Safety-wise, the training captain in question, is an accident waiting to happen! If a first officer really doesn't give a toss as to consequences of his actions, that flight was already an accident.
We all have our opinions, but; i don't think that to get a man to fly an airplane; shouting, yelling, abusive language, are requirements to be a trainer.
As far as i am concerned, it shows a lack of a good up-bringing, lousy manners, and purely bad taste!
These are certainly not the qualities we saw of the pilots before us; that spurred the rest of us to actually have an interest in becoming pilots.
Regardless of circumstance in training, with the exception of an emergency situation, IT IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE for a training captain to yell at a student!!!!!! Period! It shows a complete lack of basic instructional technique, C.R.M., abuse of office and total ignorance with regards safety.
Students react differently to individual instructors; some improve under pressure and some break up under the same conditions. Yelling is so 1950's, it makes me sick to think pilots still exist that would create excuses for this sort of 'BAD BEHAVIOR'!!!
Safety-wise, the training captain in question, is an accident waiting to happen! If a first officer really doesn't give a toss as to consequences of his actions, that flight was already an accident.
We all have our opinions, but; i don't think that to get a man to fly an airplane; shouting, yelling, abusive language, are requirements to be a trainer.
As far as i am concerned, it shows a lack of a good up-bringing, lousy manners, and purely bad taste!
These are certainly not the qualities we saw of the pilots before us; that spurred the rest of us to actually have an interest in becoming pilots.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: all over
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well said LJT !!!
So sad but true that some of these TC still float around,and all they do is "braking"pilots (captains or first officers) down and actually don't do there''job'' at all !! They should be''fired" ! Like you said"we don't live in the 1950's anymore".
Maybe they should be called a"destructor'' and not a instructor !!!
Just my 2 cents worth !!!
So sad but true that some of these TC still float around,and all they do is "braking"pilots (captains or first officers) down and actually don't do there''job'' at all !! They should be''fired" ! Like you said"we don't live in the 1950's anymore".
Maybe they should be called a"destructor'' and not a instructor !!!
Just my 2 cents worth !!!
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 4,011
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some of you need to stop questioning training methods and get on and produce the goods (or take the long walk, as this guy no doubt needed to). I was 'shouted at most cruelly' in my training, and looking back it was what I probably needed to produce my best. It did not harm, and to think some people think it worthy of striking their instructor back! Go work in a bank instead. Instructors get angry if they think you are not doing your best. Forget your feelings- you are there to learn, and not question methods. These people have shown they are instructors and they know how to do it, and they have done it before. So stop whinging, get your head down and learn, don't answer back and do your best!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm sorry but no matter how angry or frustrated an instructor gets, he should never lower himself to shouting. If that is his style he should be fired!!!
One more thing, if you know anything about psychology, you will also know that anger is a mask for fear.
One more thing, if you know anything about psychology, you will also know that anger is a mask for fear.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Classified
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't agree that anyone should throw tantrums, in the cockpit.
A check pilot will tell what you are doing wrong. A good instructor will tell you what you are doing wrong and show you how to do it right. If you need to yell at a student "you have lost it." period.
7/10's of instructioning, not yelling, is psychology. You will only get the best out of a student if he or she is relaxed. There some exceptions of course where the person is so damned cocky they need to be bought down a peg or 2.
I know of a case where a Captain was yelling and screaming his head off at some poor F/O and had been riding him for quiet sometime. His policy of yelling came back to haunt him at a later date, when they landed at a wrong airport. On speaking to the F/O, he knew they were approaching the wrong airport but said to himself, f**k him, let him carry on I'm leaving anyway. That guys, is the crust of it. If you are yelling and screaming at your crew, you have not only lost it and showing your crew you have, but you have cut the lines of communication. The communication that could one day save your life. It maybe something twivel, but a crew member that has been bullied, might say to hell with it, i'm not telling him. Sulking? Maybe but some people would say human nature. Bulling can take many forms by the way. Sarcasm comes to mind as it can be very suttle but of very low wit.
I am aware that yelling and screaming on the job is an indication of stress, an indication the purpertrator of such acts maybe out of his or her dept and is having difficulty coping with the situation.
A check pilot will tell what you are doing wrong. A good instructor will tell you what you are doing wrong and show you how to do it right. If you need to yell at a student "you have lost it." period.
7/10's of instructioning, not yelling, is psychology. You will only get the best out of a student if he or she is relaxed. There some exceptions of course where the person is so damned cocky they need to be bought down a peg or 2.
I know of a case where a Captain was yelling and screaming his head off at some poor F/O and had been riding him for quiet sometime. His policy of yelling came back to haunt him at a later date, when they landed at a wrong airport. On speaking to the F/O, he knew they were approaching the wrong airport but said to himself, f**k him, let him carry on I'm leaving anyway. That guys, is the crust of it. If you are yelling and screaming at your crew, you have not only lost it and showing your crew you have, but you have cut the lines of communication. The communication that could one day save your life. It maybe something twivel, but a crew member that has been bullied, might say to hell with it, i'm not telling him. Sulking? Maybe but some people would say human nature. Bulling can take many forms by the way. Sarcasm comes to mind as it can be very suttle but of very low wit.
I am aware that yelling and screaming on the job is an indication of stress, an indication the purpertrator of such acts maybe out of his or her dept and is having difficulty coping with the situation.
Last edited by Formally Known As; 3rd Jun 2007 at 14:20.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The center of the earths surface
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey thats me:
Never mind the fact that the stupid SOB, was going to kill us , I managed a very nice I have control, yet the stupid let go the control column, but left his foot on the Rudder pedal, still hard to its stop.
This Roman fellow had some challenges in gaining his LH seat up grade, yet he had about 5000 hrs, on Porters, you know tail wheel thingy's that you need to use your feet alot with.
And 1500 hrs RH seat in the Twotter.
He had over 30 hrs in the LH seat, ( supervised) with a basic multi rating with 300 hrs)
He was a nice guy that you wanted to help, wanted him to get there.
With a fully briefed, and talked through at length again in the "hot" office prior to cranking , he briefed me, we took off, at about 300ft AGL I Shouted "SIMULATED" and simulated a auto feather, by reducing power and prop simultaneously, (Prop to min governing) then when stabilised set power at 10lbs Tq ( ZERO THRUST).
He JUMPS on the rudder, and then starts to lose his extended centerline track! so what does he do???? tries to correct with opposite AILERON,
Skidding out of the sky this would not take his foot off the rudder pedal, I shouted yelled screamed, did all the things you are saying is BAD.
I had to push prop and power to max, and simultaneously stomp on the Pedal to regain control.
What did the weak useless say, you should have asked me again NICELY you did not have too SCREAM at me.
Afterwards he could not understand that he put in too much rudder, I asked him why he didn't "PACE" the rudder with the YAW.
He just looked at me, as for the Aileron he rekons that was what he was taught, yet with me up to this point, although being a CHALLENGE, he astounded me.
Wait until its your turn, you have a wife and family to support, while this useless is single.
Wait until it happens to you and see how calm you remain.
He put in a report to those in HQ, they said I was not treating him nice
SOB, was going to kill us , I managed a very nice I have control, yet the stupid let go the control column, but left his foot on the Rudder pedal, still hard to its stop.This Roman fellow had some challenges in gaining his LH seat up grade, yet he had about 5000 hrs, on Porters, you know tail wheel thingy's that you need to use your feet alot with.
And 1500 hrs RH seat in the Twotter.
He had over 30 hrs in the LH seat, ( supervised) with a basic multi rating with 300 hrs)
He was a nice guy that you wanted to help, wanted him to get there.
With a fully briefed, and talked through at length again in the "hot" office prior to cranking , he briefed me, we took off, at about 300ft AGL I Shouted "SIMULATED" and simulated a auto feather, by reducing power and prop simultaneously, (Prop to min governing) then when stabilised set power at 10lbs Tq ( ZERO THRUST).
He JUMPS on the rudder, and then starts to lose his extended centerline track! so what does he do???? tries to correct with opposite AILERON,
Skidding out of the sky this
would not take his foot off the rudder pedal, I shouted yelled screamed, did all the things you are saying is BAD.I had to push prop and power to max, and simultaneously stomp on the Pedal to regain control.
What did the weak useless
say, you should have asked me again NICELY you did not have too SCREAM at me.Afterwards he could not understand that he put in too much rudder, I asked him why he didn't "PACE" the rudder with the YAW.
He just looked at me, as for the Aileron he rekons that was what he was taught, yet with me up to this point, although being a CHALLENGE, he astounded me.
Wait until its your turn, you have a wife and family to support, while this useless
is single.Wait until it happens to you and see how calm you remain.
He put in a report to those in HQ, they said I was not treating him nice